Wish I could steal £16k, get away with it and call it a mistake.

[Fosse Boy]

:crylaugh:

Just watching the Party Election Broadcast for The Christian Party - The Christian Party Alliance. Quite entertaining, I'm laughing at them by the way, Bloody Biblebashers.

The people who have in power at moment/the ones who are leading candidates are a load of jokers, do these people really think we'd take them seriously?

:laugh:

That was a classic PEB. Their website's pretty funny too.

[Webbo]

So did I.

I admit that I paid far less tax during the Thatcher years than I do now - mainly because, in common with millions at that time, I was usually either unemployed or low-paid.

The rapidly rising unemployment under this govt must be filling you with nostalgia then.

Percentage of earnings paid in income tax

Distribution of earnings (1) bottom lower median mean upper top

decile quartile quartile decile

1990-91

Gross earnings - £ weekly 133.60 172.90 238.20 273.90 328.20 439.20

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 14.2 16.6 18.9 19.7 20.6 21.7

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 8.0 11.9 15.5 16.7 18.1 19.8

1991-92

Gross earnings - £ weekly 143.70 185.70 255.80 294.70 354.10 473.10

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 14.0 16.5 18.8 19.6 20.5 21.7

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 8.2 12.0 15.6 16.8 18.2 19.9

1992-93

Gross earnings - £ weekly 150.60 195.20 269.00 310.80 373.60 499.50

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 12.7 15.5 18.1 19.1 20.1 21.3

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 7.2 11.3 15.1 16.4 17.8 19.6

1993-94

Gross earnings - £ weekly 155.60 201.50 277.60 321.30 385.30 517.00

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 12.8 15.6 18.2 19.1 20.1 21.3

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 7.5 11.5 15.2 16.5 17.9 19.7

1994-95

Gross earnings - £ weekly 159.20 207.00 286.10 331.00 396.50 533.50

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 12.8 15.6 18.2 19.1 20.1 21.7

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 8.6 12.4 15.9 17.1 18.4 20.4

1995-96

Gross earnings - £ weekly 163.50 213.80 295.70 343.90 411.90 556.30

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 12.8 15.6 18.2 19.2 20.1 22.0

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 9.7 13.3 16.6 17.7 18.9 21.1

1996-97

Gross earnings - £ weekly 171.10 223.00 308.00 359.60 428.90 580.10

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 12.1 14.9 17.4 18.3 19.2 21.0

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 9.1 12.5 15.7 16.9 18.0 20.1

1997-98

Gross earnings - £ weekly 178.80 232.10 320.80 376.10 446.60 604.30

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 11.7 14.3 16.7 17.6 18.5 20.3

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 8.7 12.0 15.0 16.2 17.3 19.5

1998-99

Gross earnings - £ weekly 186.20 241.20 332.70 392.30 465.00 631.80

Single - tax as a per cent. of income 11.7 14.3 16.7 17.6 18.5 20.5

Married (2) - tax as a per cent. of income 8.8 12.0 15.0 16.2 17.3 19.6

1999-2000

Gross earnings - £ weekly 194.10 251.00 346.00 409.90 483.90 659.20

Single (3) - tax as a per cent. of income 11.2 13.9 16.4 17.4 18.3 20.5

Married (2,3) - tax as a per cent. of income 9.2 12.4 15.3 16.5 17.5 19.9

With two children - tax as a per cent. of income (4) -23.1 -4.3 13.3 16.5 17.5 19.9

2000-01 (5)

Gross earnings - £ weekly 202.60 261.70 361.70 432.00 506.80 697.70

Childless - tax as a per cent. of income 11.1 13.6 15.9 16.9 17.6 20.6

With two children - tax as a per cent. of income (4) -25.3 -6.2 11.9 16.9 17.6 20.6

2001-02 (5)

Gross earnings - £ weekly 211.30 272.50 376.80 454.50 529.60 737.30

Childless - tax as a per cent. of income 10.9 13.4 15.8 16.8 17.6 20.9

With two children - tax as a per cent. of income. (4) -27.6 -8.1 10.6 14.6 15.7 20.3

2002-03 (5)

Gross earnings - £ weekly 218.60 283.60 397.50 479.60 562.20 781.00

Childless - tax as a per cent. of income 11.0% 13.6% 16.0% 17.0% 17.7% 21.6%

With two children - tax as a per cent. of income. (4) -27.3% -7.4% 11.7% 14.9% 15.9% 21.3%

Real figures for you

I thought you weren't going to argue macro economics.

The Tories under Thatcher produced, in 1979-81 and 1990-92, the two deepest recessions in British post-war history. Was wondering which one you were referring to.

Every commentator seems to be saying that this is the worst recession since the thirties, which I'm sure you know was before the war, or are you saying that this one was caused by world events and the ones during the Thatcher era were caused soley by her?

[Sir Fynwy]

The rapidly rising unemployment under this govt must be filling you with nostalgia then.

I thought you weren't going to argue macro economics.

Every commentator seems to be saying that this is the worst recession since the thirties, which I'm sure you know was before the war, or are you saying that this one was caused by world events and the ones during the Thatcher era were caused soley by her?

To be honest the stuff I posted up is load of balls because it's only income tax, doesn't include National Insurance and non-direct taxation, as with most of these types of stats they are chosen to give the 'right' message.

There won't be a low taxation government for a long time because of the mess the countries finances are in.

Most comentators won't actually make a call on how bad this recession is until it's over but it's really bad!

[l444ry]

The rapidly rising unemployment under this govt must be filling you with nostalgia then.

I thought you weren't going to argue macro economics.

Every commentator seems to be saying that this is the worst recession since the thirties, which I'm sure you know was before the war, or are you saying that this one was caused by world events and the ones during the Thatcher era were caused soley by her?

I was obviously referring to the deepest recessions up until Thatcher's point in time. A cursory study of those recessions and the current one will show that, at least, this Government is trying to alleviate the worst elements for people, whereas Thatcher hung everyone out to dry. A bit similar to "do nothing" Dave's remedy.

[Webbo]

I was obviously referring to the deepest recessions up until Thatcher's point in time. A cursory study of those recessions and the current one will show that, at least, this Government is trying to alleviate the worst elements for people, whereas Thatcher hung everyone out to dry. A bit similar to "do nothing" Dave's remedy.

For all this massive debt that this govt is creating(that we will be paying for for decades) unemployment is still going up, companies are going bust and the economy is still shrinking.There is absolutely no guarantee that the govts plan will improve anything.

Personally I'd rather have a hard hearted bastard that improves the situation rather than a touchy feely,caring sharing warm hearted saint that makes things worse.

[breadandcheese]

I was obviously referring to the deepest recessions up until Thatcher's point in time. A cursory study of those recessions and the current one will show that, at least, this Government is trying to alleviate the worst elements for people, whereas Thatcher hung everyone out to dry. A bit similar to "do nothing" Dave's remedy.

It is still far too early to judge which remedy is actually best. It may be easy to have a go at doing nothing, but actually, sometimes, this can be the best long-term solution to the econmy, with a self-correcting formula, despite the sharp initial pain. Callous I know, but take a look at the current remedy proposed by our current government.

Effectively, this government has placed a huge amount of debt on us, our children and probably our grand-children to pay-off. The amount of tax going on the government's interest payments is huge, and is money taken away from services. We are doing this with what potential solution?

If our current government's policy works, the banks will start lending again, the economy growing, and we will have a situation akin to 2005. Gordon Brown will cheer. Except this does nothing to address the causes of the recession. This recession was caused by huge global imbalances (I'm looking at the exporting countries - namely China - who have consistently run trade surpluses, kept their currency weak to do this, causing deficits elsewhere in the global system) and a huge mispricing of risk by banks and government regulators. Neither of these issues have been addressed, so all that would happen if the current spending plan works is to set ourselves up for an even bigger future recession, except this time, we would be starting from an even more astronomical public debt level. This is why I have no faith in Gordon Brown.

[Jon the Hat]

It is still far too early to judge which remedy is actually best. It may be easy to have a go at doing nothing, but actually, sometimes, this can be the best long-term solution to the econmy, with a self-correcting formula, despite the sharp initial pain.

It certainly is not too early. We will come out of this recession. We either come out of it under a mountain of debt becuase we thought the best plan was to keep spending as we were despite our income dropping, or we tighten spending and come out of it with less debt. Brown as usual has confused his messages, from it all came from America to we can actually influence events here even though we are a pawn in the global crisis. Numpty. Election now please.

[Manwell Pablo]

You lot are really annoyed about this aren't you.

[Thracian]

Have any of them actually broken the law or have they "only" abused the system that exists.

I know "only" makes it sound defendable but that's not what I was meaning.

Also, have any of the culprits actually had their misdemeanours downsized by The Telegraph following a rebuttal at all?

We'd get to find out if any of them are charged with fraud - and I cannot see why some of them shouldn't be.

[Webbo]

Tbh I can't condemn anyone for avoiding capital gains tax. When I hand my books over to my accountant I expect him to reduce the amount of tax I have to pay by any means at his disposal. If it's legal then it's fair game as far as I'm concerned.

[Thracian]

I doubt either he or his Etonian mates would take the time to piss on you if you were on fire. They'd be more likely to piss on us if we weren't on fire, which it looks like they'll get to do come the next election.

Anyway, these chips and gravy aren't going to eat themselves

If you're saying being an "Old Etonian" equals selfish and uncaring how come I read today that 37 Old Etonians won the Victoria Cross. I wonder if there's any other school could match that.

And besides, how do so many socialists behave when they get into positions of privilege anyway? What with the cash for questions, the cash for imaginary expenses and endless other examples of shameful practice how anyone can wave the class war flag and call Etonians is laughable.

Besides I've seen how well these socialists you seem to so admire look after the jobs of so-called working class people and how concerned they have been for the welfare of youngsters in this now pox-ridden land. And that's just for starters.

If there are any any old Etonians even written into history who are more despicable than some of today's and other recent Labour politicians, I'll be well surprised.

And don't forget the Iraq war when you think about it. Or will you conveniently forget that?

[Thracian]

So did I.

I admit that I paid far less tax during the Thatcher years than I do now - mainly because, in common with millions at that time, I was usually either unemployed or low-paid.

Just make sure those expenses are legitimate! :D

As for Thatcher, she's just a distraction and, with 2.3 million unemployed and rising today, it's not one that Labour has any grounds to carp about.

[Thracian]

I also lived through the 70's and 80's, had great fun dodging the poll tax etc.

quote]

Any ideas bout how to dodge the council tax yet?

[Sir Fynwy]

Any ideas bout how to dodge the council tax yet?

You need a mobile home, become a pikey!

[Ultra]

Election now please.

In 2005 Labour was given a parliamentary majority, and therefore a mandate, to govern the country for a term of up to five years. I see no reason why that term should be curtailed.

It's called democracy. Deal with it.

[James.]

In 2005 Labour was given a parliamentary majority, and therefore a mandate, to govern the country for a term of up to five years. I see no reason why that term should be curtailed.

It's called democracy. Deal with it.

What about if a majority of people want an election? Surely THAT is democracy.

[Ultra]

Any ideas bout how to dodge the council tax yet?

I've never paid a penny. Despite Thatcher's attempts to convince you otherwise, not everyone owns the homes they live in.

[Ultra]

What about if a majority of people want an election? Surely THAT is democracy.

There were many occasions during the years of Tory misrule when an election was demanded by public opinion and not granted.

Unlike in certain parts of the US, we don't have a right of recall of elected representatives. Perhaps it's time to consider introducing one.

[Ultra]

If there are any old Etonians even written into history who are more despicable than some of today's and other recent Labour politicians, I'll be well surprised.

And don't forget the Iraq war when you think about it. Or will you conveniently forget that?

As I recall, David Cameron, along with EVERY other old Etonian MP (and peer), supported the Iraq war..

[breadandcheese]

As I recall, David Cameron, along with EVERY other old Etonian MP (and peer), supported the Iraq war..

But did they have information to all the facts as the government did? At the time, I supported the Iraq war on the evidence the government presented. I now know this evidence from the government to be a lie and the case for going to war to be very weak.

[breadandcheese]

In 2005 Labour was given a parliamentary majority, and therefore a mandate, to govern the country for a term of up to five years. I see no reason why that term should be curtailed.

It's called democracy. Deal with it.

I believe they were elected on a manifesto of promising a vote on the European constitution with Tony Blair committing to be prime minister for the full term. They have abused their mandate and should ask for a fresh one.

[Monk]

In 2005 Labour was given a parliamentary majority, and therefore a mandate, to govern the country for a term of up to five years. I see no reason why that term should be curtailed.

It's called democracy. Deal with it.

It's not democracy. We have an unelected prime minister who have 22% support and who on countless occasions have broken the manifesto with which they were elected. That's not democracy and it's painful to watch. Deal with that!

[l444ry]

Unemployment doubled between 1979 and 1980. During this period public opinion polls suggested that Thatcher was the most unpopular prime minister in British history.

Thatcher rejected the idea of entering the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. However, the following month she attended the Luxembourg European Council and agreed to sign the Single European Act.

Since the Second World War, three unelected Tory prime ministers – Sir Anthony Eden, Harold Macmillan and John Major – went on to win the subsequent general election. Another, Sir Alec Douglas Home was defeated at the polls when he finally faced the voters.

Hypocrisy? Democracy?

What is it with you Tories that you consider Labour should behave any differently?

[davieG]

I've never paid a penny. Despite Thatcher's attempts to convince you otherwise, not everyone owns the homes they live in.

And yet you decide how it's spent

[Monk]

Fair enough, I wasn't a politically aware 10 year old when John Major was around so I can't really pass judgement. This the first time it has happened in my adult life time and I find it deplorable.

Although my family and local constituency are Tory I am currently leaning towards the lib dems - their lack of leadership puts me off. I would vote for any party who I can imagine might rekindle my love for this country - because at the moment I am pretty ashamed to be british to be honest.

More than the 'unelected' element of this argument I think there is a general consensus among the public that a general election is required to sort out the state of this country and the state of politics. The majority of people cannot see Labour doing that.