Gordon Brown?

[FilboFox]

Just wanted to see what others thought on the situation with Gordon Brown... should he stay or should he go.

Following that, if you ever considered voting Labour before this might apply more to you, but would you vote for them were he to stay or go.

It'll be interesting to see what people think on here about him...

[Libertine]

NYY

[Thracian]

Yes, no and no.

Brown should stay just to make certain we change this government and, hopefully, plunge the Labour Party into history at the same time. It still amazes me that there are English people who would advocate their remaining in in charge.

[Daggers]

Brown is an inept leader - indecisive, ill-considered and piss-poor people skills (must be a requirement on the membership form), of course he should go; not to be replaced but to call an election. The man has less control of his party than he does that awfully false smile.

Labour pissed on their chips when they defaulted on election pledges, began an unjust war and started a myriad of money-wasting programs causing misery to the poor they were supposed to help.

The only problem is: there's no one decent to replace them.

[Ultra]

There are better candidates than Brown to lead the party and therefore the country (see here). Unfortunately, as two years ago, the rules and constitution of the party will not allow them to stand.

Brown should have seized the opportunity, when elected as leader, to break with the concept of "New Labour". He didn't do so. Both he and the party are now facing the consequences.

What Labour needs most of all is a change of direction. It may be too late to prevent a defeat in 2010, but at least it would have a change to rebuild, regroup and become an effective opposition.

With no great public enthusiasm for a Cameron government, there may be chances for a progressive alternative to gain ground.

[Guest Bilo]

New Labour is in its death throes right now and there are a number of reasons behind this. The Iraq War was the greatest folly undertaken by the British government since Suez, an illegal war driven not by British concerns of security but by neo-con warmongers on the other side of the Atlantic. The sight of a Labour prime minister siding with the most right-wing US President in living memory undoubtedly began to turn the tide of public opinion against Labour, and the warning signs began in 2004 as local elections began to make unpleasant viewing for Blair and his party. Meanwhile, a series of weak opposition leaders had helped Labour. Hague, Duncan-Smith and Howard had all been outclassed by Blair both in the Commons and at the ballot box. Cameron's election as Tory leader changed all that, as it was clear that the party had picked a charismatic leader capable of beating a fading Labour.

Thoughts that it was Blair the public were turning against and not Labour as a whole have been blown out of the water since Brown took the Premiership in 2007. Brown comes across as a weak leader, unable to control dissent in his party and whatever you may think of Cameron, there is little doubt that he is a far more confident man than Brown. He has struck a chord with the public, and the resentment of his background which many would have predicted seems limited to the staunchest of Labour supporters rather than the electorate as a whole. Undoubtedly, Brown has been dealt a poor hand with circumstances. The credit crunch was the fault of greedy bankers gambling with our money, but the fact remains that he presided over a tax and spend culture at Number 11 for a decade in the boom times, leaving little money for the country to remedy the problems caused by the crisis. The Tories have seized on this with as much enthusiasm as Labour did Black Wednesday and the sleaze crises which ultimately brought down the last Tory government.

[Guest]

There are better candidates than Brown to lead the party and therefore the country (see here). Unfortunately, as two years ago, the rules and constitution of the party will not allow them to stand.

Brown should have seized the opportunity, when elected as leader, to break with the concept of "New Labour". He didn't do so. Both he and the party are now facing the consequences.

What Labour needs most of all is a change of direction. It may be too late to prevent a defeat in 2010, but at least it would have a change to rebuild, regroup and become an effective opposition.

With no great public enthusiasm for a Cameron government, there may be chances for a progressive alternative to gain ground.

As a member of the Labour party, there has to be something that you can do. It is in the party's best interests for its members to do something about a leader who is going to cost them dearly come the next general election. I don't know what the rules are, but I wouldn't be quietly watching my party go down the toilet, were I a member.

[Ultra]

Hague regularly outclassed Blair at Prime Minister's Question Time - not that many people noticed or cared at the time.

As with Blair before him, Cameron has benefitted massively from the failings of an incumbent government. The recent decline in the economy hasn't exactly helped Labour either.

I find it interesting that the Iraq war, which Cameron fully supported, is now being cited by his supporters as a foreign policy failure.

Yesterday's results indicate that while the electorate may despise Labour, they also remain massively unenthusiastic about Cameron. The Tory vote was down significantly on 2004. (Wales being a disturbing exception to this trend.. )

We may be living through a time of fickle political allegiances. UKIP, whose record at Brussels has been appalling, deserved to be sent to the dustbin of history. The fact that the public seemed ready to forgive (and even reward) their misdemeanours tells us plenty about their level of understanding.

[ozleicester]

damn I thought this was a poll on what colour he should be...I was going for Gordon Lilac

[Ultra]

As a member of the Labour party, there has to be something that you can do. It is in the party's best interests for its members to do something about a leader who is going to cost them dearly come the next general election. I don't know what the rules are, but I wouldn't be quietly watching my party go down the toilet, were I a member.

As Bilo noted, the party's problems go far deeper than the failings of its leader, although his many serious errors of judgement have not exactly helped matters.

There is absolutely zero consensus within the party hierarchy as to who would best replace Brown. This means that, if he stepped aside, the resultant leadership campaign would be a bloodbath with terminal consequences for the party, especially if another Blairite was elected. It would also act as a distraction from the serious economic challenges the government still faces.

But it would help if the Labour government rediscovers traditional Labour values. This would mean no more privatisations (including that of the Royal Mail), no expansion of Heathrow airport (which would save 60000 homes) and an end to plans to introduce compulsory ID cards.

These issues are of far more importance than any personalities, whatever the media may tell us.

[Finnegan]

While surely the next election is destined to go Tory, I think if Brown wants to give his party a chance at all he has to fall on his sword. He has to play the pantomime villain and Labour have to do their best to find a strong, charismatic and intelligent leader from... somewhere.

Someone with beliefs and convictions, someone to impress and bedazzle.

You can't see it, though. I'd rather vote for a Labour government I could believe in than make a protest vote but I can't see it happen. I ticked yes, I'd be willing to "consider" voting Labour if Brown went but that doesn't mean I would as a certainty. I will most likely vote Lib Dem again.

It must be said, though, that in Charnwood the Tories are guaranteed a seat even if Barney the Dinosaur stood.

[Dr The Singh]

While surely the next election is destined to go Tory, I think if Brown wants to give his party a chance at all he has to fall on his sword. He has to play the pantomime villain and Labour have to do their best to find a strong, charismatic and intelligent leader from... somewhere.

Someone with beliefs and convictions, someone to impress and bedazzle.

You can't see it, though. I'd rather vote for a Labour government I could believe in than make a protest vote but I can't see it happen. I ticked yes, I'd be willing to "consider" voting Labour if Brown went but that doesn't mean I would as a certainty. I will most likely vote Lib Dem again.

It must be said, though, that in Charnwood the Tories are guaranteed a seat even if Barney the Dinosaur stood.

Agreed, although I think no matter if Brown resigns the tories will win, but if he stays it will be a massive landslide, and will basically give total control to Cameron, which is scary!!

[DB11]

I think there should be a don't care, doesn't affect me, don't get politics option

[Finnegan]

I think there should be a don't care, doesn't affect me, don't get politics option

Que waves of "exactly what's wrong with this country" posts.

[lou]

Que waves of "exactly what's wrong with this country" posts.

Not from me..... I felt the same way at that age and think most people did to be fair

[Ultra]

While surely the next election is destined to go Tory, I think if Brown wants to give his party a chance at all he has to fall on his sword. He has to play the pantomime villain and Labour have to do their best to find a strong, charismatic and intelligent leader from... somewhere.

Someone with beliefs and convictions, someone to impress and bedazzle.

You can't see it, though. I'd rather vote for a Labour government I could believe in than make a protest vote but I can't see it happen. I ticked yes, I'd be willing to "consider" voting Labour if Brown went but that doesn't mean I would as a certainty. I will most likely vote Lib Dem again.

It must be said, though, that in Charnwood the Tories are guaranteed a seat even if Barney the Dinosaur stood.

There's no such thing as a safe seat, as many a Labour councillor has recently found to their cost.

Independent thought, charisma or intelligence have not exactly been prized qualities among those seeking career advancement in the Labour Party. So the pool of available candidates to replace the current leader does not appear to be overflowing.

In general, though, the quality of politicians across all main parties has declined massively during the last 30 years. Someone needs to reclaim the political arena from the upper/middle class elite who currently predominate in Parliament and elsewhere.

[Libertine]

Jesus wept Danny...

[Katy]

Not from me..... I felt the same way at that age and think most people did to be fair

Personally I didn't. At 18 I was canvassing for the (proper) Labour party and was very passionate about politics. I was 22 when New Labour came into power and have become disillusioned with them ever since. They betrayed their roots and sold their soul to get into power, I can't forgive them for that.

[Ultra]

But anyone with a knowledge of Labour party history is aware that it has ALWAYS been vulnerable to careerist self-seeking elements.

Look at Ramsay MacDonald or the "gang of four" for examples.

Despite the best efforts of the previous leader and his ilk, the overwhelming majority of current members remain committed to positive social change. One day, perhaps soon, we will succeed in reclaiming control of our party.

[Katy]

But anyone with a knowledge of Labour party history is aware that it has ALWAYS been vulnerable to careerist self-seeking elements.

Look at Ramsay MacDonald or the "gang of four" for examples.

Despite the best efforts of the previous leader and his ilk, the overwhelming majority of current members remain committed to positive social change. One day, perhaps soon, we will succeed in reclaiming control of our party.

You'd best get a wriggle on then, because the Labour party is currently dead on its arse.

[Ultra]

You'd best get a wriggle on then, because the Labour party is currently dead on its arse.

Not in Leicester it isn't...

[Katy]

Not in Leicester it isn't...

Congrats.

[dandannieldanok]

Yes, Yes and Yes.

[Jon the Hat]

Yes, no and no.

Brown should stay just to make certain we change this government and, hopefully, plunge the Labour Party into history at the same time. It still amazes me that there are English people who would advocate their remaining in in charge.

And more amazing those people are not Peter Mandelson, who is in fact, in charge of Gordon right now. That's right. The most powerful man in the country is an unelected Lord. Nice one Gordon.

[Webbo]

A landslide victory for the Tories is far from certain. According to the BBC last night the Tories need a 7% swing from Labour just to have a 2 seat majority, something that's only happened twice since the war.

It seems more likely that the Tories will have the most seats but no overall majority.