Pre Election, Prime Ministerial Debate 2

[Jon the Hat]

Am I mistaken but doesn't it appear to you as if Tory (and its supporters) spend more time on talking rubbish about Labour instead of focusing on making worthwile politics?

Sorry if I come across as being overly superficial and shallow. Allegedly, it comes with supporting the Liberal Democrats.

Well it will take the Tories the first term to sort out the mess Labour have left, so that pretty much is Tory policy.

[Jon the Hat]

As indeed was the 'sleazy' Tory government before it.

While we continue to oscillate between notionally left and right wing parties this will continue. Each party will 'pay off' it's supporters and strive, above all else to stay in power.

Their loyalty is to the vested interests that put them and keeps them in power, sound government and concern for the views of 'ordinary' people simply does not concern them.

This is why I hope not just for a hung parliament, but a succession of hung parliaments that brings about a constitutional crisis and, just maybe, brings about real change.

To what though? What is your alternative? Conceptually I like the idea of moving to a more representative government, but I cannot shake the idea that all you actually end up with is decision by committee, which usually ends up with compromise routes instead of the best route.

Actually, perhaps there should be a maximum period that one can actually be an MP.

[Samilktray]

I watched it last night and despite not having a clue about politics found it all quite interesting.

Cameron looks like he has botox injections though, I will not vote for a man who uses botox to be in charge of this country.

[davieG]

To what though? What is your alternative? Conceptually I like the idea of moving to a more representative government, but I cannot shake the idea that all you actually end up with is decision by committee, which usually ends up with compromise routes instead of the best route.

Surely it's only the 'best' route if the party in power is the one you've chosen, you obviously don't think Labour have been taking the best route all these years.

PS I wasn't trying to be harsh just saying how you come across. You clearly have strong views on things with little room for compromise, that in itself can make you blind to alternatives. This is what I dislike about party politics, everything a party proposes is 100% correct and everything the other parties come up with is 100% wrong.

[Alexikokopops]

Cameron did the best on the night imo, we need a eurosceptic party in power who will stand up for Britain and who will opt out of laws etc in the EU, especially when Turkey is soon to join the EU...

Clegg just trying to be the nice guy again.

Eh? Why?

If I remember right, Lavrentis has some kind of Greek relatives, hence a dislike for the Turkish.

[l444ry]

Political Lightweight (Example 3004)

A leader who thinks it is worth wasting time confronting Brown on election leaflets, during a national debate on the urgent issues facing our country today, is hardly likely to win floaters to his cause.

[Tommeh]

Another reason to vote Lib Dems.

Sorry, just realised this was brought up yesterday in the other thread.

[Jon the Hat]

Political Lightweight (Example 3004)

A leader who thinks it is worth wasting time confronting Brown on election leaflets, during a national debate on the urgent issues facing our country today, is hardly likely to win floaters to his cause.

That was indeed a waste of time. We all know labour's tactics, some us choose to accept them, some don't. Pointing them out probably makes no difference.

[lavrentis]

If I remember right, Lavrentis has some kind of Greek relatives, hence a dislike for the Turkish.

I don't dislike the Turks and have said that on a few occasions but If Turkey join the EU I don't think the likely prospect of thousands of Turks coming to the UK would be beneficial.

[Jon the Hat]

I don't dislike the Turks and have said that on a few occasions but If Turkey join the EU I don't think the likely prospect of thousands of Turks coming to the UK would be beneficial.

What we need is a Government with a committment to limit the rights of those living in new member states to come to the UK. Yep, you guessed it....

[Webbo]

The after debate television chat is absolutely pathetic. Everyone these pillocks interview thinks their man won.

Bit like this thread.

[James.]

EDIT: actually I can't be arsed.

[l444ry]

Bit like this thread.

Agree, especially as the media seem to have have sneakily drawn people into the notion that you can "win" debates like these. This is truly the X Factor Election.

[lavrentis]

So you think the UK should remove itself from the EU to stop Turkisk people coming here?

Not on that sole issue no, but leaving the EU would mean the UK has full control over immigration. The 3 main leaders now only talk about immigration outside the EU.

Most of our laws are made in Brussels by unelected bureaucrats and that's why I said we need opt out options on future EU laws to stop the UK becoming embedded in an EU superstate.

I hope Farage wins his seat in Buckingham

[davieG]

All I'm seeing on this topic is Labour voters are still Labour, Tories are still Tories and LiBDems still LibDems with a load of I don't knows and none of them appeal.

Along side this there is debate over who came across best in the debates I've noticed very few if any that have been persuaded X Factor style to change or confirm their vote. The poll doesn't even reflect how people are going to vote.

Perhaps I've missed something

[Webbo]

All I'm seeing on this topic is Labour voters are still Labour, Tories are still Tories and LiBDems still LibDems with a load of I don't knows and none of them appeal. Along side this there is debate over who came across best in the debates I've noticed very few if any that have been persuaded X Factor style to change or confirm their vote.

Perhaps I've missed something

No, I think that sums it all up.

[l444ry]

All I'm seeing on this topic is Labour voters are still Labour, Tories are still Tories and LiBDems still LibDems with a load of I don't knows and none of them appeal.

Along side this there is debate over who came across best in the debates I've noticed very few if any that have been persuaded X Factor style to change or confirm their vote. The poll doesn't even reflect how people are going to vote.

Perhaps I've missed something

I'd have thought Nick Clegg has improved his cause massively due to these "debates". He's out Camerooned the Cameroon. All style over substance. And it seems no coincidence that he's the "young, trendy" candidate likely to succeed in this X Factor environment. The mass hysteria following the first encounter without having to defend one statement or policy is sad really. He's getting away with murder!

[Jon the Hat]

I'd have thought Nick Clegg has improved his cause massively due to these "debates". He's out Camerooned the Cameroon. All style over substance. And it seems no coincidence that he's the "young, trendy" candidate likely to succeed in this X Factor environment. The mass hysteria following the first encounter without having to defend one statement or policy is sad really. He's getting away with murder!

Clegg certainly has name recognition now! The question is going to come when those who have newly discovered him find they cannot vote by text. For those who do make it to the ballot box, what will they do when his name is not on their ballot paper?

[davieG]

I'd have thought Nick Clegg has improved his cause massively due to these "debates". He's out Camerooned the Cameroon. All style over substance. And it seems no coincidence that he's the "young, trendy" candidate likely to succeed in this X Factor environment. The mass hysteria following the first encounter without having to defend one statement or policy is sad really. He's getting away with murder!

But there's no actual evidence that this is how people will vote, the hysteria is based on polls asking who 'won' the debates not who are you going to vote for.

What does 'who won' even mean, I doubt it means solely who put forward the best policies, but could be who spoke the best, who looked the best, who made the funniest wisecrack and that can change from debate to debate. It's all pretty meaningless and just gives the media types massive airplay time.

Either way if it makes a few entrenched Labour/Tory voters panic a bit then it will have been worth while.

I think I heard some commentater say that in a previous USA Presidential election the candidate that 'won' the debates didn't win the election.

[breadandcheese]

Political Lightweight (Example 3004)

A leader who thinks it is worth wasting time confronting Brown on election leaflets, during a national debate on the urgent issues facing our country today, is hardly likely to win floaters to his cause.

It may not be worthwhile in a tv debate, but it is something that needs to be looked at by the independent watchdog.

No party should be allowed to print leaflets and election material, making claims that are not true about either of the three parties, as it is misrepresentation. We would not accept a retailer making misleading claims when selling a product to us, nor should we accept any political party making false accusations to win votes.

At the same time, there is still the unanswered question regarding the labour leaflets being sent out to some cancer sufferers. I think an urgent review is required to establish if the leaflets were targetted towards specific people because if they were targetted, then there must have been a misuse of highly sensitive information to form a database, which is extremely worrying.

[Fosse Boy]

Still not quite sure why Clegg's being put on trial having to defend his policies. New Labour have had 13 years to implement any change they wanted to but haven't done so, instead Brown appears to have been saving it all for this mainfesto. That smacks to me of empty promises and desperation more than anything the Lib Dems are saying. New Labour have had the ability to show their worth in government, while the Lib Dems have never had the chance.

[Jon the Hat]

Still not quite sure why Clegg's being put on trial having to defend his policies. New Labour have had 13 years to implement any change they wanted to but haven't done so, instead Brown appears to have been saving it all for this mainfesto. That smacks to me of empty promises and desperation more than anything the Lib Dems are saying. New Labour have had the ability to show their worth in government, while the Lib Dems have never had the chance.

Yes. So discount labour, they have had their chance, and consider Lib Dem Vs Conservatives.

[Fosse Boy]

Yes. So discount labour, they have had their chance, and consider Lib Dem Vs Conservatives.

The Tories had their chance in the eighteen years prior to that, and their gradual shift towards the centre (along with New Labour's) since means that many now see them and New Labour as one and the same, regardless of any actual difference in policy that each may claim. The unpredictability of what a Lib Dem government could bring is what seems to be attracting so many undecided voters to them. Correct, they have no experience of running the country. Correct, their policies are untested. But it' just goes to show the extent to which there is discontent with the Big Two among the electorate that the Lib Dems are finally managing to stir it up in this campaign and use it to their advantage.

[l444ry]

It's all very depressing.

Bearing in mind that 9 million and 4 million watched the TV debates, it means that most did not, so the Lib-Dem surge is based on people believing second-hand reports about what happened and being prepared to vote for the Lib-Dems having no knowledge of their policies.

The Lib-Dems have always had the advantage of being able to say just about anything, largely on the basis that they'd never have to put their policies into practice. Now they might have to.

"I like that Mr Clegg, he did well good in that debate and ting... plus libdems is gonna leagalise innit, that what my mate munroe said, and his dad reads papers and ting so is pretty clued up..."

[nick_knowles]

the BBC announce, political heavy weight and housewives favourite, Nick Knowles is to chair the up coming BBC prime ministerial debate.