Pre Election, Prime Ministerial Debate 2

[Sir Fynwy]

Sorry but Clegg looks good on TV but has crap policies. He sounds convincing but is not actually saying anything. As Gordon likes to say this is not the X factor.

The Tories are the only party who actually get that people feel hard done by. Those who actually pay taxes and work hard feel like those who don't are taking the piss and getting away with it. The Police can catch drivers speeding a little, but not stop yobs making town centres no go areas at night. This is just a single example of the result of Labour spending years putting in place a controlling centralised bureaucracy which makes it nearly impossible for those in the public sector to do their jobs efficiently or to change things in a positive way. The Tories are going to take that bureacracy out. And frankly they are the ONLY party you can trust to be able to do it properly. The other will faff around the edges. Torys are good at cost cutting, and the rest are good at spending. This is the way of the world. We have had too long of Labour and now we need the Tories to sort out the mess like they always do.

I'm still not feeling the Love Dave!

[Jon the Hat]

I gave my opinion, i am quite open to what anybody has to tell me. I might not agree but i would certainly respect their views and listen to what they said whether i agree with them or not! Every person in the world has a different life and feels differently about things. I wouldn't want everybody to agree with my views.

At least have the decency to respond in a constructive manner or just dont bother at all. You don't know me and if im so blinded by the truth then maybe you could care to enlighten me on what you think to what i have said. I simply expressed my opinion on what i have seen and you have responded in a negitive manner just because you don't agree.

There are plenty of sources online who will give you a view from any angle you care to take of how bad the New Labour project has been for this country, from running up enormous debts in a time of plenty, to casuing the housing bubble by not including mortgage in inflation figures. From taking away our civil liberties to failing to put in place plans for the future of power generation and water supplies. For lying time and again about everything from WMD in Iraq to Labour leaflets you simply cannot trust Labour to run the country for another day after 6th May.

Fortunately Labour are going to be absolutley destroyed, so this point is moot.

[davieG]

You are so blind to the truth that argument is pointless.

You don't come across as particularly open minded. You have not a single good word to say about anyone except the Tories you come across as a totally entrenched Tory who will never look beyond them - kinda makes you blind as well.

[Jon the Hat]

Wow, I am in awe!

Every single point is a willful distortion of what was said and totally mis-represented to fit in with your arguments

Congratulations, you should be a professional politician.:appl:

Thanks, I am thinking about it

[RobHawk]

Sorry but Clegg looks good on TV but has crap policies. He sounds convincing but is not actually saying anything. As Gordon likes to say this is not the X factor.

The Tories are the only party who actually get that people feel hard done by. Those who actually pay taxes and work hard feel like those who don't are taking the piss and getting away with it. The Police can catch drivers speeding a little, but not stop yobs making town centres no go areas at night. This is just a single example of the result of Labour spending years putting in place a controlling centralised bureaucracy which makes it nearly impossible for those in the public sector to do their jobs efficiently or to change things in a positive way. The Tories are going to take that bureacracy out. And frankly they are the ONLY party you can trust to be able to do it properly. The other will faff around the edges. Torys are good at cost cutting, and the rest are good at spending. This is the way of the world. We have had too long of Labour and now we need the Tories to sort out the mess like they always do.

I feel extermely hard done by because of the tory plans regarding inheritance tax. Cameron wants to help the 3000 richest people in the country save £200,000.

In todays world £200,000 doesnt sound like a huge amount. Well its 10 years worth of wages for me!! That makes me feel hard done by!!!

[Jon the Hat]

You don't come across as particularly open minded. You have not a single good word to say about anyone except the Tories you come across as a totally entrenched Tory who will never look beyond them - kinda makes you blind as well.

That is a bit harsh. If you look back at posts I have made over time, I have clearly said that I believe the country is better off not having more than 2 terms of any government. Balance is the key, I just find it incredibly hard to believe anyone could possibly vote Labour after the last 13 years. I understand though that people remember the previous 18 in the same way.

I cannot understand the appeal of Nick Clegg though, he comes accross as utterly superficial to me.

[Dr The Singh]

Well the Tier 4 Visa structure is still being put in place. It will be fully live as of September and has been partly enforced this year. I can assure you that no person will be allowed in on a student visa if they are not a student, and if they do not enroll with the university,the university has to report this to the UK boarder Agency. The University has to do this by Law. Its a pain for me because Its created alot more work in my department. The old system was awful and what you have written does not surprize me at all! But having dealt with tier 4 Student visas this year i can assure you the change should make a huge difference!

You make a really valid point though, and it goes back to what Lou was saying, they have had 13 years and only now are doing something about it. Better late than never but i agree with you this really was a problem. Hopefully by September it will be a problem of the past. From what i have seen it should work and be alot more efficient than the previous student visa rules. I guess only time will tell!

Sorry buddy, having seen many systems implemented by Labour being beaten so comfortably in the past, I don't share your optimism. Labour is so incompetent with dealing immigration etc, it's beyond belief!!!

Mate, comming from an immigrant background and having many relatives who are waiting to come here for the money....they all say the same thing....Britain is the place because it's piss easy to get in, and the government is so piss stupid that they can't even kick you out!!

My cousin was supposed to be a student at Manchester Met....he never even bothered to enrol....he's currently working in manchester, he has been caught twice and released by the UK border agency. They can't touch him, aslong as he doesn't have no documentation ie passport!!

I have no faith in any party, for me, the vote is gonna be who is the lesser of the evils, and who is gonna tax me the least. At this moment and time, they are all about equally crap. I can't stand Brown, he is so not in touch with the public. I can't stand Cameron, because he's all slime and no substance and the CLegg has his head in the clouds with some of his policies, and is beggining to sound like a arrogant twat!!

[marbelladave]

Thanks, I am thinking about it

You have my vote!

Never let truth or honesty get in the way of doing what you know to be right!

Conviction politics every time, Tony Blair was it's last great exponent and that turned out fine!

Didn't it?.............

[Dr The Singh]

Thanks, I am thinking about it

If you ever become leader and need a 'token brown face' in your cabinet, i'm your man!!!

[James.]

That is a bit harsh. If you look back at posts I have made over time, I have clearly said that I believe the country is better off not having more than 2 terms of any government. Balance is the key, I just find it incredibly hard to believe anyone could possibly vote Labour after the last 13 years. I understand though that people remember the previous 18 in the same way.

I cannot understand the appeal of Nick Clegg though, he comes accross as utterly superficial to me.

As opposed to David man of substance Cameron? Hmm.

The fact that Cameron and the Tories aren't nailing this election with a huge majority is reason itself not to vote for them. How can they have ****ed it up? After what Brown's done it was on a plate! They've made a hash of pretty much everything, they play negative politics and Cameron looks lightweight.

I actually toyed with idea of voting Tory because like you Jon I recognised the awful job Labour have done, particularly with the economy. But the longer this election campaign goes on the more I dislike the party. I suspect I'm not the only one.

If I was going to vote I'd probably vote Lib Dems but given my overall disillusionment with the current state of politics I really don't think anyone deserves my vote, and as such I'll probably abstain.

[Jon the Hat]

I feel extermely hard done by because of the tory plans regarding inheritance tax. Cameron wants to help the 3000 richest people in the country save £200,000.

In todays world £200,000 doesnt sound like a huge amount. Well its 10 years worth of wages for me!! That makes me feel hard done by!!!

Good to see the politics of jealousy are alive and well. Try and look past the headlines - ordinary families in London and the South-East pay stacks of inheritance tax every year, and they are no better off that people living in similarly modest family homes in Leciester.

If you really believe inheritance tax is in any way justifiable, then surely you must think everyone should pay it? Treat it as income. Perhaps you can explain why if I earn £300k this year I will pay £110k in tax, but if you inherit the same amount you pay none?

[RobHawk]

Sorry buddy, having seen many systems implemented by Labour being beaten so comfortably in the past, I don't share your optimism. Labour is so incompetent with dealing immigration etc, it's beyond belief!!!

Mate, comming from an immigrant background and having many relatives who are waiting to come here for the money....they all say the same thing....Britain is the place because it's piss easy to get in, and the government is so piss stupid that they can't even kick you out!!

My cousin was supposed to be a student at Manchester Met....he never even bothered to enrol....he's currently working in manchester, he has been caught twice and released by the UK border agency. They can't touch him, aslong as he doesn't have no documentation ie passport!!

I have no faith in any party, for me, the vote is gonna be who is the lesser of the evils, and who is gonna tax me the least. At this moment and time, they are all about equally crap. I can't stand Brown, he is so not in touch with the public. I can't stand Cameron, because he's all slime and no substance and the CLegg has his head in the clouds with some of his policies, and is beggining to sound like a arrogant twat!!

Well you are obviously seeing whats happening from a completely different angle from me. Like i said the Tier 4 Visas will make it more dificult for people to come in as students and i have seen times when people have been deported for not extending their visas when they should. Maybe i am over optimistic in this process working and like i said time will tell. I really appreciate your comments though and will really bear this in mind in the future. I said in an earlier post that everybody is coming from i different place in life and i really find it interesting to hear other peoples thoughts on these issues.

[Jon the Hat]

Well you are obviously seeing whats happening from a completely different angle from me. Like i said the Tier 4 Visas will make it more dificult for people to come in as students and i have seen times when people have been deported for not extending their visas when they should. Maybe i am over optimistic in this process working and like i said time will tell. I really appreciate your comments though and will really bear this in mind in the future. I said in an earlier post that everybody is coming from i different place in life and i really find it interesting to hear other peoples thoughts on these issues.

This government has hardly deported anyone. I am talking in the hundreds or low thousands, Vs the alleged 900,000 illiegla immigrants estimated to be here. It relies on people who make mistakes owning up and being scared of the threats to leave of their own accord. Some do, some don't.

If there was really an appetitie to deport people, it would not be very hard.

[RobHawk]

Good to see the politics of jealousy are alive and well. Try and look past the headlines - ordinary families in London and the South-East pay stacks of inheritance tax every year, and they are no better off that people living in similarly modest family homes in Leciester.

If you really believe inheritance tax is in any way justifiable, then surely you must think everyone should pay it? Treat it as income. Perhaps you can explain why if I earn £300k this year I will pay £110k in tax, but if you inherit the same amount you pay none?

I dont actually agree with Inheritance Tax in principle, but given the current financial situation in this country and in the rest of the world, i find this plan by Cameron totally unjustifield. Lets be honest this is one of the few things Cameron has commited to!! Why?? Because hes looking after number 1! Well that fine Mr cameron but do not expect my vote!! I beleive this money could be much better used elsewhere. He wants to cut public spending by £6billion but can still justify this policy?

There is no fairness in that if you ask me and i would feel cheated and short changed.

[Alexikokopops]

I think the Government should deport aacooling08

[Guest Bilo]

I think the Government should deport aacooling08

Yeah, send him back to a racist country.

Mississippi is lovely at this time of year.

[Dr The Singh]

Yeah, send him back to a racist country.

Mississippi is lovely at this time of year.

I thought Acooling was a women,....meh,......it wouldn't surpise me if she had testicles!!!

[Guest Bilo]

I thought Acooling was a women,....meh,......it wouldn't surpise me if she had testicles!!!

See that's my own sexism coming into play.

You have to specify you're a woman on here, otherwise I think you're a chap.

[Jon the Hat]

I dont actually agree with Inheritance Tax in principle, but given the current financial situation in this country and in the rest of the world, i find this plan by Cameron totally unjustifield. Lets be honest this is one of the few things Cameron has commited to!! Why?? Because hes looking after number 1! Well that fine Mr cameron but do not expect my vote!! I beleive this money could be much better used elsewhere. He wants to cut public spending by £6billion but can still justify this policy?

There is no fairness in that if you ask me and i would feel cheated and short changed.

So unfair taxes are ok as long as they impact someone else? Cameron has said this cut won't come into play for several years anyway, by which time we will be in a better position. Everyone seems confortable with the concept of the rich paying more in tough times, but when it comes to reducing that burden in better times no one wants to do it. This is a surefire way to punish those who create jobs and contribute most to the economy.

[lavrentis]

Cameron did the best on the night imo, we need a eurosceptic party in power who will stand up for Britain and who will opt out of laws etc in the EU, especially when Turkey is soon to join the EU...

Clegg just trying to be the nice guy again.

[Finnegan]

I cannot understand the appeal of Nick Clegg though, he comes accross as utterly superficial to me.

lol And you're a Cameron fan!?

[James.]

Cameron did the best on the night imo, we need a eurosceptic party in power who will stand up for Britain and who will opt out of laws etc in the EU, especially when Turkey is soon to join the EU...

Clegg just trying to be the nice guy again.

Eh? Why?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

There are plenty of sources online who will give you a view from any angle you care to take of how bad the New Labour project has been for this country, from running up enormous debts in a time of plenty, to casuing the housing bubble by not including mortgage in inflation figures. From taking away our civil liberties to failing to put in place plans for the future of power generation and water supplies. For lying time and again about everything from WMD in Iraq to Labour leaflets you simply cannot trust Labour to run the country for another day after 6th May.

Fortunately Labour are going to be absolutley destroyed, so this point is moot.

100% right Jon. Labour have been a shameful disgrace, and have let the people of this country down, time and time again. They are like moronic headless chickens.

It will be good riddance to bad rubbish.

[MC Prussian]

Am I mistaken but doesn't it appear to you as if Tory (and its supporters) spend more time on talking rubbish about Labour instead of focusing on making worthwile politics?

Sorry if I come across as being overly superficial and shallow. Allegedly, it comes with supporting the Liberal Democrats.

[marbelladave]

100% right Jon. Labour have been a shameful disgrace, and have let the people of this country down, time and time again. They are like moronic headless chickens.

It will be good riddance to bad rubbish.

As indeed was the 'sleazy' Tory government before it.

While we continue to oscillate between notionally left and right wing parties this will continue. Each party will 'pay off' it's supporters and strive, above all else to stay in power.

Their loyalty is to the vested interests that put them and keeps them in power, sound government and concern for the views of 'ordinary' people simply does not concern them.

This is why I hope not just for a hung parliament, but a succession of hung parliaments that brings about a constitutional crisis and, just maybe, brings about real change.