North Korean aggression

[samlcfc]

South Korea believe they have found a North Korean Torpedo iin the wreckage of their ship that was sank in March. North Koorea are denying involvement but expertes are saying that alll the evidence points to them.

South Korean president voows stern action whilst North Korea said their response to that would be an all out war of justice. Could come a bit close.

BBC News

[Bellend Sebastian]

Someone should tell Kim that stuff like this just makes you look bad

[BoneDog]

The North Koreans did it? That's a big joke! No chance did they do this.

And why would it take 10 weeks to find out that it was sunk by a torpedo? It wouldn't, it would of been obvious straight away.

Not a chance in hell the North Koreans did this. More likely some small group in the US military (with South Koreas knowledge of course) who are always doing military tests and wargames there. It reminds me of how they started the Vietnam war.

[Rocket-Ron]

The North Koreans did it? That's a big joke! No chance did they do this.

And why would it take 10 weeks to find out that it was sunk by a torpedo? It wouldn't, it would of been obvious straight away.

Not a chance in hell the North Koreans did this. More likely some small group in the US military (with South Koreas knowledge of course) who are always doing military tests and wargames there. It reminds me of how they started the Vietnam war.

It must have been the north Koreans, It had north korean writing on it

[Webbo]

This is probably the most worrying news we've had for a while. It's time China stepped up and stopped this mad man.

[Guest Bilo]

It must have been the north Koreans, It had north korean writing on it

Korean is Korean, whether North or South.

All the same, we all know El Empty will always challenge the official line.

[hairy]

The North Koreans did it? That's a big joke! No chance did they do this.

And why would it take 10 weeks to find out that it was sunk by a torpedo? It wouldn't, it would of been obvious straight away.

Not a chance in hell the North Koreans did this. More likely some small group in the US military (with South Koreas knowledge of course) who are always doing military tests and wargames there. It reminds me of how they started the Vietnam war.

But they have blown South Korean planes and hotels up previously and a sub. Why not a ship? It takes 10 weeks to do a full investigation including looking for debris on the seabed.

[Zingari]

Korean is Korean, whether North or South.

All the same, we all know El Empty will always challenge the official line.

with very good reason though , to be fair

gulf of tonkin , etc

the northwoods documents etc

[Guest Bilo]

with very good reason though , to be fair

gulf of tonkin , etc

the northwoods documents etc

The smiley afterwards says I'm leaning towards a 'why complain about the inevitable' rather than rolling my eyes in a 'here we go' mode.

Something does seem weird about this though, I happen to agree.

[MC Prussian]

Expect the North Korean National Football Squad to nuke a few of their opponents this summer, too.

[ramboacdc]

china wouldnt attack north korea, they are on the same side.

[davieG]

china wouldnt attack north korea, they are on the same side.

Who said they would?

[Babylon]

we all know El Empty will always challenge the official line.

He didn't really challenge it though did he, he categorically stated they didn't do it. With no knowledge of what has gone on, without seeing any of the evidence... he knows enough to say that.

[The Doctor]

It must have been the north Koreans, It had north korean writing on it

could that not have been forged by the South Koreans, the Americans, the Chinese or any one else who had some motive as to taking down North Korea.

[FoxyPV]

This all sounds quite promising - we haven't had a new war in a whle.

[Webbo]

china wouldnt attack north korea, they are on the same side.

I wouldn't expect them to. They're the only country with any influence on NK. They could pressure Kim Il Jong (spelling?)into toning down a bit or persuade the army to remove him.

[Babylon]

could that not have been forged by the South Koreans, the Americans, the Chinese or any one else who had some motive as to taking down North Korea.

I think it was a joke.

[Floating Fox]

Worrying to say the least...Not heard anything of any of our lot out there though...probably got a sub just sitting and watching though...

[Ozwin]

So why are China on North Korea's side again?

[Shrenchel]

So why are China on North Korea's side again?

Because if the regime collapsed it would either be

a) A fvcking mess, lots of instablility in the region, millions of refugees pouring into China, North Korea's weaponary possibly falling into the hands of criminals, loss of a decent trading partner.

or

b) Alright, however, if north and south korea unified again then that would create a much stronger economic and military power. One which would be competition for a lot of China's exports and probably side with the US over China.

or a bit of a) and then a bit of b), which could really shit china up.

[BoneDog]

It must have been the north Koreans, It had north korean writing on it

Yes they did show remains of a North Korean torpedo but the South Koreans did get their hands on 2 of the same torpedos a couple of years ago. I can't remember where but I read about it at the time (I think they found them somewhere along the coast).

I still think this is a set-up. I know that Kim Yong guy is a bit of a loon (as are most world leaders, although most try to pretend otherwise) but I can't see him being so stupid. Him and his regime know the consequences of such an action could lead to all out war. They also know that if the US and South Korea perhaps with help from Japan or Britain take them on then it will most likely mean the end of their regime and that is the last thing they would want.

There are many suspicious things about this story and many people in South Korea think that their government is covering up the truth ( I saw a news report the other day where people on the street in Seoul were being interviewed and most of them didn't believe the official story )

[Rocket-Ron]

I think it was a joke.

Thank you

[ozleicester]

He didn't really challenge it though did he, he categorically stated they didn't do it. With no knowledge of what has gone on, without seeing any of the evidence... he knows enough to say that.

Hmm seems to me.. that Mr Empty seems to know just a little too much about too many things???

[breadandcheese]

I still think this is a set-up. I know that Kim Yong guy is a bit of a loon (as are most world leaders, although most try to pretend otherwise) but I can't see him being so stupid. Him and his regime know the consequences of such an action could lead to all out war. They also know that if the US and South Korea perhaps with help from Japan or Britain take them on then it will most likely mean the end of their regime and that is the last thing they would want.

Actually, I'm not sure this statement holds true. If anything, I would say the North Koreans are very calculating. They know there is no appetite for war from South Korea, nor America, so they know they can be belligerent and to an extent, get away with it. This is not to say the North Koreans want war either, but they realise they can raise the stakes without it leading to war as neither side wants it.

The punishments being talked about are further sanctions through the UN security council. I imagine Kim Jong il is quite comfortable in the knowledge that China would not back any further sanctions as China do not want a further flood of refugees across the border, or worse, do not want the North Korean regime to collapse for fear of the creation of a unified democratic capitalist Korea right on the border of what is poor rural China (rather than the bright lights of Beijing or Shanghai that we see in pictures).

In this sense, North Korea can act in a belligerent manner, reminding the world it is still here, a decrepit nuclear armed country with the ability to cause a lot of damage, so that when talks start to discuss its nuclear programme, it can possibly extract more concessions.

With regards, the "official line", South Korea deliberately asked international investigators from a number of different countries to investigate the cause of the sinking, so that they could not be accused of fraud or conspiracies. Obviously this didn't work for you El Empty, but the point still stands that this an investigation by inspectors from countries such as Sweden, Canada, UK, etc.

[Guest Bilo]

In my opinion, everybody has much to lose from a unified Korea. China would of course see millions of refugees pouring over the border in the short term, and long term problems with North Korea's arms falling into criminals would be a massive problem. The Chinese government has many enemies who would benefit from this arrangement, from pro-democracy campaigners to Tibetan and Uighur separatists fighting for independence from Beijing. Those arms would also concern the West, as China and the West do face similar enemies with Islamic radicals fighting against the Chinese government in Uighuristan. Also in the long term, a democratic and healthy united Korea would look very tempting to poor Chinese farmers on the borders.

South Korea has a hell of a lot to lose too. What was East Germany still suffers from a disparity with the old West, much to the chagrin of Berlin. Germany has taken years to recover from reunification and many Germans rather wish it hadn't happened. Where this concerns South Korea is the fact that West Germany was far stronger economically than South Korea prior to reunification, and East Germany, while an economic carcrash, was nothing like as big a mess as North Korea. This would certainly cause a short term financial meltdown and almost certainly a medium term economic crisis in Asia as South Korea struggles to take on the scale of North Korea's economic mismanagement. While a unified Korea may in the long term become a strong economy and big player in Asia, the German experience tells us we're going to be looking at an absolute minimum of 20 years before that happens, and those Western governments who have much invested in the South will suffer until then.

So while many governments may have a knee-jerk wish for a regime collapse in Pyongyang and Kim Jong-Il made to stand before an international court, in their more considered moments they'll want to avoid it at all costs so a war that would almost certainly see North Korea implode is my view unlikely.