Trav Le Bleu Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 In addition to that another thing that really winds me up; have you ever been to Cornwall? They practically hate the English, have their own flag and want to be separate from us. The next time they have major floods, let them sort themselves out. Same could be said for many parts of England. In fairness, the Cornish are probably the most British people in Britain.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 30 April 2011 Author Posted 30 April 2011 Same could be said for many parts of England. In fairness, the Cornish are probably the most British people in Britain. SP English
shen Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Do many people in GB actually consider themselves European and that GB is part of Europe. I grew up asuming that if you lived in GB you it was a part of Europe and there for European. But doing alot of reading recently and a lot about History, that this may not be the case. Also that the Scandinavians don't tend to see them selves as European. Would love peoples thoughts on this it generally interests me. Scandinavians don't tend to see themselves as European? Do clarify.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Scandinavians don't tend to see themselves as European? Do clarify. Alot off the people i associated with thru Scandinavia people in their early twenties mind you. Didn't tend to associate them selves with being European as they not part of the EU and tend to think Scandinavia was almost like it's own continent. Not too sure if this the norm across the wider spectrum of people. What are your thoughts?
Phube Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Wigstonian -> Leicester(ite/ian) -> East Midlander -> English -> British -> European -> "Western" -> Citizen of the World. It's all an accident of birth, but as I have lived my life I have gained an affinity for the places in this order.
shen Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Alot off the people i associated with thru Scandinavia people in their early twenties mind you. Didn't tend to associate them selves with being European as they not part of the EU and tend to think Scandinavia was almost like it's own continent. Not too sure if this the norm across the wider spectrum of people. What are your thoughts? Norway is the only Scandinavian country not part of the EU. Denmark, with it's historically strong cultural and economic ties to Germany and England, definitely considers itself European, but strong national identities in the Scandinavian countries might give the impression to outsiders that people are anti-EU/anti-European. Sweden I believe are quite similar in that respect too. I'll concede that there is a strong 'Scandinavian' culture and togetherness, which is maybe similar to the British Isles thing, I don't know. My Norwegian girlfriend tends to agree with your view that Norwegians don't consider themselves European, but rather Norwegian (and independent, something that is rather recent for them) and Scandinavian at a push.
Finnegan Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 I understand the birthplace-lottery argument and it's exactly for that reason I happily maintain that, as I said earlier, I don't believe I am better than anyone else because of where I was born and to whom. Moreover, I don't see the point in hating someone simply because of the nation they were born to. But at the same time, the world would be a massively, massively boring fucking place if we all let our regional identities die. There almost seems to be a school of thought that thinks it's backwards or a gateway to bigotry to embrace one's history or traditional culture and to take pride in it and I find that a little bit sad. One of the things that makes visiting places like China or Japan so special is how in tune their day to day life is with their traditional culture and being and it's that which makes the world such an interesting place and such a fantastic place to explore. Pretty sure that collectively, we as a race have the capacity to both bring down boarders and overcome disputes without having to lose our languages and heritage and force ourselves to all become a clone.
Jon the Hat Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Both for me. Then again I do have Scottish roots within 3 generations on both sides of my family. I also agree there is nothing wrong with being proud of your country and it's heritage, and I believe you can be so while recognising not everything was done right or with the right motives.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 30 April 2011 Author Posted 30 April 2011 Why does it matter? Of course it matters. I'm glad not everyone has your attitude
Finnegan Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Both for me. Then again I do have Scottish roots within 3 generations on both sides of my family. I also agree there is nothing wrong with being proud of your country and it's heritage, and I believe you can be so while recognising not everything was done right or with the right motives.
Bluefoxtim Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Of course it matters. I'm glad not everyone has your attitude The world would be a more peaceful place if they did
Trav Le Bleu Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Norway is the only Scandinavian country not part of the EU. Denmark, with it's historically strong cultural and economic ties to Germany and England, definitely considers itself European, but strong national identities in the Scandinavian countries might give the impression to outsiders that people are anti-EU/anti-European. Sweden I believe are quite similar in that respect too. I'll concede that there is a strong 'Scandinavian' culture and togetherness, which is maybe similar to the British Isles thing, I don't know. My Norwegian girlfriend tends to agree with your view that Norwegians don't consider themselves European, but rather Norwegian (and independent, something that is rather recent for them) and Scandinavian at a push. Leicestershire is right on the edge of the old Danelaw. Towns and villages such as Oadby, Elmsthorpe, Ullesthorpe, Kilby and Ratby... there are over 70 villages in Leicestershire ending "by", ancient Danish for settlement. Chances are many people from Leicester share more common ancestors with you Shen than they do with people who live in southern England. Having said THAT, the Normans were of course again Vikings.
BoneDog Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Earthling. I live in reality and can see right through all the man made nationalist baloney.
Phube Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 Earthling. I live in reality and can see right through all the man made nationalist baloney. I believe your passport says differently!
BoneDog Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 I believe your passport says differently! Which one? I have three but can only use two because I have to 'tan up' for the third and I'd never get away with it. When I posted the earthling thing I thought the thread was 'what nationality?', so to stick to the topic, if I'm abroad and somebody asks me what nationality I am I always say English. Don't think I've ever said British.
z-layrex Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 A recent trip to the Czech republic made me really appreciate living in Britain. It was a lovely trip away but there's no where quite like home. So English and British I guess.
sven-your-smiling Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 english for me, ENGLAND! ENGLAND! ENGLAND! ENGLAND!
Alf Bentley Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 The socialists, on the other hand, don't seem to be proud of anything that relates to England, the English or our history. That's garbage and you know it's garbage, Thracian. Your problem is that "the socialists" (whoever they are) might be proud of different things from you and because of your intolerance you can't accept that. "The socialists" might be proud of everything English/British from the Peasants' Revolt and the Chartists through the Suffragettes, WW2, the NHS and punk rock to the minimum wage and devolution. Yet because "they" ("the enemy within" - within your paranoid mind, mainly) are not jumping up and down on the Mall in union-jack shorts, shouting "Rule Britannia! Come and reign over me, ma'am!" or propping up saloon bars emitting spittle-flecked bile against Europe, republicans, commies or whoever...they are somehow un-English! Each to their own. I didn't watch the wedding, partly out of disinterest, but mainly because I was working. My wife and daughter watched it and enjoyed it. I'd like to see a republic some day, but it's something that shouldn't be rushed - you need to be careful what the monarchy is replaced with and how powers are allocated. But Thracian does seem to be someone who wants to define Englishness very narrowly, so as to exclude English people with different ideas from him. Sowing such divisions is not the way forward. Ironically, it is precisely people like Thracian who make some people question whether they can see themselves as English. I'm English born and bred, from an Irish family, with moderately anarcho-socialist views. However, I'd now describe myself as British (and Irish), not English, precisely because "English" has been hijacked by a bunch of intolerant right-wingers - I don't want to be associated with narrow-minded, divisive, intolerant people like Thracian, Farage and even more unsavoury characters further right. By definition, "British" includes people - English, Scots, Welsh, Irish, people of recent immigrant descent, left-wingers, right-wingers etc. Hats off to people who can see "English" as something broader and more generous-minded than Thracian's vision - and to left-wingers like Billy Bragg who are prepared to fight for "English" not to be hijacked by right-wing bigots....maybe I'm just too weak and should stand up to the Thracians of this world!
Guest Bilo Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 English. I really am quite envious as well of the way that Welsh and Scottish nationalism have become so commonly accepted and mainstream. Stating that you're proud to be English and wish to preserve your English heritage and identity seems to carry connotations for many people, due largely to far-right and mostly English racist groups hijacking the Cross of St. George for decades, something that is still going on with the EDL. English pride is perhaps the least fashionable of all the nationalities within the UK sadly. What is needed is a mainstream, non-racist English nationalist movement, something along the lines of Plaid Cymru and the SNP. I've been saying it for years and probably sound like a stuck record, but until such a movement becomes popular, taking pride in your English heritage will always have unfair labels attached to it. Obviously such labels are grossly offensive. For all our faults, and I agree there are many and children should be taught the good as well as the bad, England has been a hugely beneficial influence in Western culture. Our literature, our parliamentary system, our politicians and the industrial revolution have all helped shape the modern world. Why shouldn't we celebrate these? There seems to be a culture these days of making English people wear the hair shirt over our history, and this is just as wrong as the Tory government of the 1980s sugarcoating the past and pretending that England's influence was nothing but positive. Now the balance has swung too far in the opposite direction, sullying English patriotism and that to me is a great shame considering England was at the forefront of fighting against fascism, slavery and religious intolerance.
Finnegan Posted 30 April 2011 Posted 30 April 2011 I wouldn't take him too seriously, Alf. To Thracian, everyone left of Maggie is a socialist.
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