Brtitsh or English...

[The Year Of The Fox]

With the wedding yesterday, I saw so many people saying they were proud to be 'british'

How do you regard yourself? I for one am English through and through. I was born in Leicester, Leicester is in England therefore I'm English.

In my experience,people who call themselves British have far less of an idenity and also- stick my neck out here- a lot more left wing!

[Finnegan]

Welsh. Never British.

And rampantly left wing.

I have a big problem with what "British" means, not just at home in the sense of having a chip on my shoulder but beyond that, internationally. I don't relate to our government, our politics or - worse - our history.

Beyond a bit of sporting banter I generally don't have a problem with England and would much rather see English people self-identify as English and take pride in being English as opposed to claiming to be "British" and treating the achievements of Scotland, Ireland and Wales as their own.

That said, these are all fairly marginal opinions and I don't feel passionately enough about them to lecture anyone who wants to call themselves "British" outside of contexts like this where, you know, you're sort of asking for my opinion.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I get fed up with people who say british. Its much more important to have your own identity- English/ Welsh etc.

British is far too vague and boring

[The Year Of The Fox]

Welsh. Never British.

And rampantly left wing.

I have a big problem with what "British" means, not just at home in the sense of having a chip on my shoulder but beyond that, internationally. I don't relate to our government, our politics or - worse - our history.

Beyond a bit of sporting banter I generally don't have a problem with England and would much rather see English people self-identify as English and take pride in being English as opposed to claiming to be "British" and treating the achievements of Scotland, Ireland and Wales as their own.

That said, these are all fairly marginal opinions and I don't feel passionately enough about them to lecture anyone who wants to call themselves "British" outside of contexts like this where, you know, you're sort of asking for my opinion.

Bang on that is.

[Finnegan]

I do want to add, I like being European, I like being Human.

I think it's important to have an identity and to appreciate your culture and your history, to be in touch with where you're "from." But I don't think being Welsh makes me better than anyone else and I don't object to being labeled something broader, something bigger than that.

I just have a problem with the very specific example of "British."

[MikeyT]

Bang on that is.

100% agree. Spot on.

[Kent]

I agree with Sosban Fach, just replace Welsh with English in my case.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I do want to add, I like being European, I like being Human.

I think it's important to have an identity and to appreciate your culture and your history, to be in touch with where you're "from." But I don't think being Welsh makes me better than anyone else and I don't object to being labeled something broader, something bigger than that.

I just have a problem with the very specific example of "British."

Do many people in GB actually consider themselves European and that GB is part of Europe. I grew up asuming that if you lived in GB you it was a part of Europe and there for European. But doing alot of reading recently and a lot about History, that this may not be the case. Also that the Scandinavians don't tend to see them selves as European. Would love peoples thoughts on this it generally interests me.

[Steven]

English and British

[Samilktray]

Proud of my Angolan roots.

[Thracian]

Well, the royal family represent Britain, that's for sure and I don't think even the staunchest of nationalists could suggest that the queen is in any way parochial. Indeed she is both the head of and the backbone of our Commonwealth and clearly proud of it. The socialists, on the other hand, don't seem to be proud of anything that relates to England, the English or our history.

[Nick]

I have a mixed bag of emotions about National and Colonial labelling of identity.

1. I'm proud to be English if English means parts of my community, real ale, English landscape, Accents, areas of culture, freedoms.

2. If it means EDL, BNP (The flag of St. George) The Daily Mail, English (now British) Foreign Policy and all the historical misery associated with it then I resent being English in a holistic fashion.

3. I thought I was British. I went to school and studied history JFK, WW2, the vikings...... What really would have been some use to me was some education around British foreign policy so I understood why the IRA was blowing up stuff through my childhood and why the Scottish and the Welsh hated the country in which I was born.

4. I lived in Wales for 5 years and even learnt Welsh in an attempt to integrate and feel less like a colonialist invader - this achieved its aims on very few levels.

5. I feel the way the world is going and communities and communications merge and move freely we will end up retaining cultures in many places though it will become diluted - this will be an unavoidable and normal result of the world becoming a smaller place and the process began centuries ago but now is speeding up due to advances in technology.

6. I used to say "I'm proud to be from Leicester but not necessarily English"

7. Now I just think I struggle to make emotional attachments to generic places and stereotypes. I'm lucky enough to have travelled all over the globe and shared amazing experiences with peoples in amazing communities, I have emotional, political and cultural attachments to all of them on some level.

8. Identity and Pride for me are two broader/generic concepts to attach myself to in terms of a commitment or value base.

N.

[Finnegan]

Well, the royal family represent Britain, that's for sure and I don't think even the staunchest of nationalists could suggest that the queen is in any way parochial. Indeed she is both the head of and the backbone of our Commonwealth and clearly proud of it. The socialists, on the other hand, don't seem to be proud of anything that relates to England, the English or our history.

3. I thought I was British. I went to school and studied history JFK, WW2, the vikings...... What really would have been some use to me was some education around British foreign policy so I understood why the IRA was blowing up stuff through my childhood and why the Scottish and the Welsh hated the country in which I was born.

This is a big, big part of it for me. The glossing over of the negative aspects of our history in the education system is a serious pet hate of mine.

We should educate our kids far more about the formation of the Union (the good and the bad) and the Empire (the good and the bad.) We learn that the Romans, the Normans, the Saxons and the Vikings all invaded but we never really learn that it wasn't just that they were attacking "us," they became us. We completely ignore that centuries of warring, in-fighting, conquering, oppression and damn-near genocide followed and if we acknowledge that anything did happen then we roll our eyes and suggest that people should have "gotten over it" by now; when really, a little recognition would go a long way.

[Nick]

This is a big, big part of it for me. The glossing over of the negative aspects of our history in the education system is a serious pet hate of mine.

We should educate our kids far more about the formation of the Union (the good and the bad) and the Empire (the good and the bad.) We learn that the Romans, the Normans, the Saxons and the Vikings all invaded but we never really learn that it wasn't just that they were attacking "us," they became us. We completely ignore that centuries of warring, in-fighting, conquering, oppression and damn-near genocide followed and if we acknowledge that anything did happen then we roll our eyes and suggest that people should have "gotten over it" by now; when really, a little recognition would go a long way.

Couldn't agree more.

[lavrentis]

British and English.

I was born in England which is a part of the Union. Simple as that for me really.

[jonthefox]

English, and proud of it too.

[BlueSi13]

English first, British second (I personally believe the Union should only be implemented in times of national emergency such as the threat of war or disaster, "stronger together than apart" in those instances)

[dave the caveman]

I find the idea that I should somehow feel more connected to, or pride in, an event or achievement because it happened to occur within the same man-made, entirely non-existant geographical boundary in which i was born to be a bit silly, really. Then that I'm suddenly not allowed to feel pride in something that may have happened just down the road, but across a boundary is a laughable idea. Patriotism, like religion, is just flimsy nonsense used to control the knuckle-dragging mass.

I rarely find myself needing to identify either way except for in international situations where I use British because British is the commonly accepted standard abroad. If I wanted to protest I'd much rather go the other way and say European.

[Nick]

I find the idea that I should somehow feel more connected to, or pride in, an event or achievement because it happened to occur within the same man-made, entirely non-existant geographical boundary in which i was born to be a bit silly, really. Then that I'm suddenly not allowed to feel pride in something that may have happened just down the road, but across a boundary is a laughable idea. Patriotism, like religion, is just flimsy nonsense used to control the knuckle-dragging mass.

[Trav Le Bleu]

How can you be European, but not British?

As someone with Scottish and Irish ancestry only 3 generations back (and in the case of the Scottish, it was fiercely Scottish, as my Great-Great-Grandmother was disinherited for marrying an Englishman - and from a rich family too, a fairly well known name), but with my immediate relatives all English and myself born and raised in Leicester, I don't think I've ever thought of myself as English. Besides I was brought up to see that patriotism, as much as religion and politics, has been a cause for much suffering in the world (people hide their patriotism behind religion and politics too - which is why people say N Ireland is about Catholics and Protestants, but Irish Catholics will kill English Catholics, and the same with Protestants - go figure.)

Somehow being British lessens that for me. That said, the British Empire has been responsible for some terrible attrocities. We invented the concentration camp and chemical warfare, have taken advantage of other nations, cocked up the Middle-east just off the top of my head. And before people like Finners and Al say, nooooo, that was the English, no, it was the British, as Welsh, Scots and Irish were often prominently involved or have been heads of state themselves.

And on this point there have been Welsh and Scottish kings ruling in Britain more recently than English ones. A few years back when the National Welsh Library was openned at Aberystwyth Welsh people were protesting that it was being openned by the Prince of Wales, cos he wasn't Welsh. Well sod off! He's not English, he's German, but you don't hear the English complaining! And also if the Welsh want to be Welsh and only Welsh, then they should all speak Welsh and NEVER English - it should be taught as a second language when they reach their teens, like European languages are at most schools, and then only if they choose. Same goes for the Scots and Gaelic (at least in some parts of the Islands this is actually true.)

I just don't get it. You can't have it both ways. Personally I think all the country, including the provinces of England, would wither and die if cut off from the economic dynamo that is London.

[Webbo]

British and English and happy to be so.

I really feel people think too much about the these things though. Why anyone should feel guilty about something that happened 100 years before they were born is beyond me. The past is gone and there's no way we can change it. We can only judge ourselves on how we act now ,and while we might not be perfect we have a lot more to be proud about than most countries.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I have a mixed bag of emotions about National and Colonial labelling of identity.

1. I'm proud to be English if English means parts of my community, real ale, English landscape, Accents, areas of culture, freedoms.

2. If it means EDL, BNP (The flag of St. George) The Daily Mail, English (now British) Foreign Policy and all the historical misery associated with it then I resent being English in a holistic fashion.

3. I thought I was British. I went to school and studied history JFK, WW2, the vikings...... What really would have been some use to me was some education around British foreign policy so I understood why the IRA was blowing up stuff through my childhood and why the Scottish and the Welsh hated the country in which I was born.

4. I lived in Wales for 5 years and even learnt Welsh in an attempt to integrate and feel less like a colonialist invader - this achieved its aims on very few levels.

5. I feel the way the world is going and communities and communications merge and move freely we will end up retaining cultures in many places though it will become diluted - this will be an unavoidable and normal result of the world becoming a smaller place and the process began centuries ago but now is speeding up due to advances in technology.

6. I used to say "I'm proud to be from Leicester but not necessarily English"

7. Now I just think I struggle to make emotional attachments to generic places and stereotypes. I'm lucky enough to have travelled all over the globe and shared amazing experiences with peoples in amazing communities, I have emotional, political and cultural attachments to all of them on some level.

8. Identity and Pride for me are two broader/generic concepts to attach myself to in terms of a commitment or value base.

N.

Care to expand on that? What are you saying? Anyone with the COSG is racist??

The only reason I ask is because I have a COSG tattoo on my back with the words 'ENGLISH AND PROUD' underneath. I'll never forget the first time I showed it to my mates mum She saw it, then went, 'oh what, you're not in the BNP are you Stu?'

That really got my back up.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Care to expand on that? What are you saying? Anyone with the COSG is racist??

The only reason I ask is because I have a COSG tattoo on my back with the words 'ENGLISH AND PROUD' underneath. I'll never forget the first time I showed it to my mates mum She saw it, then went, 'oh what, you're not in the BNP are you Stu?'

That really got my back up.

But doesn't that just go to show how the BNP have hijacked that emblem?

[The Year Of The Fox]

How can you be European, but not British?

As someone with Scottish and Irish ancestry only 3 generations back (and in the case of the Scottish, it was fiercely Scottish, as my Great-Great-Grandmother was disinherited for marrying an Englishman - and from a rich family too, a fairly well known name), but with my immediate relatives all English and myself born and raised in Leicester, I don't think I've ever thought of myself as English. Besides I was brought up to see that patriotism, as much as religion and politics, has been a cause for much suffering in the world (people hide their patriotism behind religion and politics too - which is why people say N Ireland is about Catholics and Protestants, but Irish Catholics will kill English Catholics, and the same with Protestants - go figure.)

Somehow being British lessens that for me. That said, the British Empire has been responsible for some terrible attrocities. We invented the concentration camp and chemical warfare, have taken advantage of other nations, cocked up the Middle-east just off the top of my head. And before people like Finners and Al say, nooooo, that was the English, no, it was the British, as Welsh, Scots and Irish were often prominently involved or have been heads of state themselves.

And on this point there have been Welsh and Scottish kings ruling in Britain more recently than English ones. A few years back when the National Welsh Library was openned at Aberystwyth Welsh people were protesting that it was being openned by the Prince of Wales, cos he wasn't Welsh. Well sod off! He's not English, he's German, but you don't hear the English complaining! And also if the Welsh want to be Welsh and only Welsh, then they should all speak Welsh and NEVER English - it should be taught as a second language when they reach their teens, like European languages are at most schools, and then only if they choose. Same goes for the Scots and Gaelic (at least in some parts of the Islands this is actually true.)

I just don't get it. You can't have it both ways. Personally I think all the country, including the provinces of England, would wither and die if cut off from the economic dynamo that is London.

In addition to that another thing that really winds me up; have you ever been to Cornwall? They practically hate the English, have their own flag and want to be separate from us.

The next time they have major floods, let them sort themselves out.

[The Year Of The Fox]

But doesn't that just go to show how the BNP have hijacked that emblem?

Only in peoples brainwashed minds, ie you cant be patriotic without being racist

Besides the BNP is the British National Party, and every time I've seen their flyers etc, its the union flag they use.