Osama Bin Laden Dead!

[BoneDog]

It's not worth arguing

All that is necessary for stupid to triumph is that smart people say nothing.

It's a good job that alot of smart people do speak out then!

What have you got to say about the video below? And what about the comments from 'stupid' people like Colonel George Nelson (US Air Force), Major Glen MacDonald (US Air Force) and Glen Stanish (20 years airline pilot and founder of Pilots For 9/11 Truth)?

All sceptics should watch and listen to this video all the way through. And if you're not suspicious afterwards, then you are either in the 'establishment' or are brainwashed / insane No offence.

[zubi]

It's a good job that alot of smart people do speak out then!

Absolutly, but what do we see when some people try to talk out

[BoneDog]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that the fire alone would bring down the building, more the combination of the fire and a 170,000 pound airliner slamming into the steel skeleton at 600mph and weakening it.

It's still impossible for the building to fall into it's own footprint, no matter what hit it. The plane might have weighed 170,000lb but aren't they mostly made from aluminium? The hundreds of steel columns in the WTC were designed to cope with the plane scenario. And the further down the building you went, the thicker the steel columns were.

Isn't it a scientific fact that asymmetrical damage can not create a symmetrical collapse? This is why demolition companies get payed like they do. If what happened on 911 was real, the demolition guys would be out of a job. Any fool would be able to make a building collapse into its own footprint.

[BoneDog]

They were wrong to dispose of such crucial evidence as the rubble was.

Yes, it seems that the two key moments in any Osama Bin Laden bigraphy (the 9/11 attacks and his death) would have the same thing happen immediately after. The US government got rid of the evidence quickly, and before, any outsiders had chance to verify or investigate what happened!

[BoneDog]

And even if they kept some rubble I'm not sure what that would tell them to be honest.

I think that it would have shown evidence that some of the steel beams were cut / melted with thermite or some other explosive type stuff. I'm sure I've got a video somewhere of them moving some beams onto barges or trucks, and some of these beams had straight line cuts through them (nowhere hear where they were joined to the next beam). I'll have a check for that video.

[MPH]

It's still impossible for the building to fall into it's own footprint, no matter what hit it. The plane might have weighed 170,000lb but aren't they mostly made from aluminium? The hundreds of steel columns in the WTC were designed to cope with the plane scenario. And the further down the building you went, the thicker the steel columns were.

Isn't it a scientific fact that asymmetrical damage can not create a symmetrical collapse? This is why demolition companies get payed like they do. If what happened on 911 was real, the demolition guys would be out of a job. Any fool would be able to make a building collapse into its own footprint.

what weighs more.... a ton of bricks or a ton of water?

[The Doctor]

what weighs more.... a ton of bricks or a ton of water?

the yak.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Two good points and the second point means that this photo was a staged piece of propaganda. Love the way Hilary is covering her mouth in faux shock!

That soldier needs a bigger jacket for all his ribbons!

Personally I like the way the cleaner is looking in from the back of the room. "Erm, shall I just give it a quick dust round or do you want me to come back later?"

[MPH]

the yak.

yeah... he only scores goals the fat git...

[BoneDog]

Anwar al-Awlaki the next Boogeyman

The US-born radical Yemeni cleric Anwar al-Awlaki is head of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

As if by magic and right on cue.

Yemen al-Qaeda head Anwar al-Awlaki 'targeted by drone'

There's so much wrong with this that I don't know where to start. It wasn't that long ago that he was having tea in The Pentagon chatting to military chiefs, supposedly advising them on 'Muslim minds' or some baloney like that! I wonder what he was really doing there. And that Crimbo day attempt on the plane from Amsterdam to Detroit that he allegedly set up is another load of baloney! The guy who was supposedly attempting that attack obviously had help in getting on the plane in Amsterdam. There were American witnesses (two lawyers I think) to the dodgy goings on at boarding in the airport and also on the plane.

I always thought it was weird that sometime after his visit to The Pentagon (the visit we know about - there could be more) he started to suddenly appear more radical in his talks. And then in 2010, hey presto, he is put on the terror list, and now he is the new number one. Everything smells of fish!

[BoneDog]

Anwar al-Awlaki ? that's a bit of a tongue twister mouthful , couldn't they pick on someone with an easier name ?

I think Webster Tarpley or Gerald Celente calls him "Awlaki the CIA Lackey"!

[BoneDog]

what weighs more.... a ton of bricks or a ton of water?

Ah, but what I'm saying is that aluminium cannot penetrate and damage a hundred or so massive steel columns. It might damage 10 or 20 of them as it hits but by the time the plane has hit 10 or 20 of the columns it would have been basically disintergrated and would have no effect on the other beams all over the rest of the floors it hit. Most of the steel beams on the whole area of floors the planes hit would have stayed intact and strong. And if anything, the floors above would have slipped off to one side and not brought the whole building down in it's footprint.

Scientifically impossible.

[zubi]

Anwar al-Awlaki the next Boogeyman

The US-born radical Yemeni cleric Anwar al-Awlaki is head of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

As if by magic and right on cue.

I'm no expert on him, but up until now he has been quite a popular Islamic scholar, He is quite well known for his series on the lives of the prophets of god. I've never heard them but I doubt he would talk about Jesus or Noah and tell people to kill innocents.

[BoneDog]

That soldier needs a bigger jacket for all his ribbons!

Personally I like the way the cleaner is looking in from the back of the room. "Erm, shall I just give it a quick dust round or do you want me to come back later?"

Have you noticed that their laptops are turned off? The photos and paperwork are pixelated out but the laptop screens just look blank like they're not even turned on.

[MPH]

Ah, but what I'm saying is that aluminium cannot penetrate and damage a hundred or so massive steel columns. It might damage 10 or 20 of them as it hits but by the time the plane has hit 10 or 20 of the columns it would have been basically disintergrated and would have no effect on the other beams all over the rest of the floors it hit. Most of the steel beams on the whole area of floors the planes hit would have stayed intact and strong. And if anything, the floors above would have slipped off to one side and not brought the whole building down in it's footprint.

Scientifically impossible.

Nope.

the sheer heat generated from that inferno was so intense people were jumnping to their death to try and escape it. heated Steel loses strength. Simples.Added to the structural damage caused by the plane and you have however many millions of tons on its way down...

Building fires, which normally reach temperatures of about 1000 ºC, can affect the loadbearing capacity of structural bearing elements in a number of ways.

Apart from such obvious effects as charring and spalling, there can be a permanent loss of strength in the remaining material and thermal expansion may cause damage in parts of the building not directly affected by the fire.

In assessing fire’s effects, the main emphasis should be placed on estimating the residual load-carrying capacity of the structure and then determining the remedial measures, if any, needed to restore the building to its original design for fire resistance and other requirements. Obviously, if weaknesses in the original design are exposed, these should be corrected.

All building materials except timber are likely to show significant loss of strength when heated above 250 ºC, strength that may not recover after cooling. Thus, it is useful to estimate the maxi maximum temperature attained in a fire. Molded glass objects soften or flow at 700 or 800 ºC. Metals form drops or lose their sharp edges as follows: 300 to 350 ºC for lead, 400 ºC for zinc, 650 ºC for aluminum and alloys, 950 ºC for silver, 900 to 1000 ºC for brass, 1000 ºC for bronze, 1100 ºC for copper and 1100 to 1200 ºC for cast iron. There are also the well-known color changes in concrete or mortar.

The development of red or pink coloration in concrete or mortar containing natural sands or aggregates of appreciable iron oxide content occurs at 250 to 300 ºC and, nor normally, 300 ºC may be taken as the transition temperature. Table A-1 provides specifics

3 – Steel

The yield strength of steel is reduced to about half at 550 ºC. At 1000 ºC, the yield strength is 10 percent or less. Because of its high thermal conductivity, the temperature of unprotected internal steelwork normally will vary little from that of the fire. Structural steelwork is, therefore, usually insulated.

Apart from losing practically all of its load-bearing capacity, unprotected steelwork can undergo considerable expansion when sufficiently heated. The coefficient of expansion is 10-5 per degree Celsius. Young’s modulus does not decrease with temperature as rapidly as does yield strength.

Cold-worked reinforced bars, when heated, lose their strength more rapidly than do hot-rolled high-yield bars and mild-steel bars. The differences in properties are even more important after heating. The original yield stress is almost completely recovered on cooling from a temperature of 500 to 600 ºC for all bars but on cooling from 800 ºC, it is reduced by 30 percent for cold-worked bars and by 5 percent for hot-rolled bars.

The loss of strength for prestressing steels occurs at lower stressing temperatures than that for reinforcing bars. Cold-drawn and heat-treated steels lose a part of their strength permanently when heated to temperatures in excess of about 300 ºC and 400 ºC, respectively.

The creep rate of steel is sensitive to higher temperatures and becomes significant for mild steel above 450 ºC and for prestressing steel above 300 ºC. In fire resistance tests, the rate of temperature rise when the steel is reaching its critical temperature is fast enough to mask any effects of creep. When there is a long cooling period, however, as in prestressed concrete, subsequent creep may have some effect in an element that has not reached the critical condition.

Analysis and Repair

In general, a structural steel member remaining in place with negligible or minor distortions to the web, flanges,

or end connections should be considered satisfactory for further service. Exceptions are the relatively small number of structures built with cold-worked or tempered steel, where there may be permanent loss of strength.

This may be assessed using estimates of the maximum temperatures attained or by on-site testing. Where necessary, the steel should be replaced, although reinforcement with plates may be possible. Microscopy can be used to determine changes in microstructure. Since this is a specialized field, the services of a metallurgist are essential.

And stupidly, the steel used for the twin towers was not insulated and was a relatively light weight grade of steel.

I dont see whats so difficult for people to understand?

[MC Prussian]

On a sidenote, the US government has just issued videos of Bin Laden practicing his speeches, clips they claim they found during the raid on the compound.

Apparently, the biggest info they can give us is that he has his beard dyed in all of the videos.

No audio released - in order to prevent "inciting hateful responses".

[MPH]

On a sidenote, the US government has just issued videos of Bin Laden practicing his speeches, clips they claim they found during the raid on the compound.

Apparently, the biggest info they can give us is that he has his beard dyed in all of the videos.

No audio released - in order to prevent "inciting hateful responses".

im 100% sure the photos will be released eventually. wether by due means or somoene passing them over to some dodgey swedish man or not i dont know. I sincerely hoped they are not leaked out as this will just create more issues and finger pointing.. and then will they be real if they are not released officially... actually some people wont believe they are real if released officially anyway

[MikeyT]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13323060

[zubi]

Nope.

the sheer heat generated from that inferno was so intense people were jumnping to their death to try and escape it. heated Steel loses strength. Simples.Added to the structural damage caused by the plane and you have however many millions of tons on its way down...

And stupidly, the steel used for the twin towers was not insulated and was a relatively light weight grade of steel.

I dont see whats so difficult for people to understand?

People were obviously jumping out the windows if they were close to the inferno, I dont recall seeing people jumping from the 2nd or 3rd floor windows where the fuel supposedly leaked too?

Lets say the steel lost strength and did give way, wouldn't the building crumble to its side in pieces rather than one straight go? Any engineers on this forum?

And why would you build a skyscraper with light weight steel?

[Koke]

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

- Hermann Goring, leading member of Nazi party, Nurnberg Trial.

[MPH]

People were obviously jumping out the windows if they were close to the inferno, I dont recall seeing people jumping from the 2nd or 3rd floor windows where the fuel supposedly leaked too?

Lets say the steel lost strength and did give way, wouldn't the building crumble to its side in pieces rather than one straight go? Any engineers on this forum?

And why would you build a skyscraper with light weight steel?

the article i just posted states how steel can be effected even if its not at the direct fire site. As for the low grade steel they used... cost? maybe because the height of the building was so tall the weight of using the really really heavy stuff would of been too much?

[Koke]

For those who aren't aware of this agenda called Project for New American Century [PNAC, I'd suggest to look into and do some research about them. They are some very powerful and prominent radical neo-cons who wants complete and utter world domination in every aspect of it. There's a reason they have over 800 military bases in FOREIGN countries. The PNAC's own document, Rebuilding America's Defences, is nothing but a blueprint for American Imperialism. It was the thinking that what is good in America is good for the World. Sounds very similar to Germany before WW2.

Also, read about Diego Garcia and about the Depopulation of Diego Garcia, where the indigenous inhabitants [the Chagossians] were kicked out of their own land for the purpose of American Imperiliasm, thanks partly to the British Government who gave it to them.

Look into the Council on Foreign Relations. Not many people are aware of whom the Council on Foreign Relations is comprised of. These radical neo-cons are responsible for atrocities committed in many parts of the world. There's a famous clip where Hilary Clinton said that it was nice to be so close to the head quarters of the CFR because she didnt have to go very far to find out what to think and how to act on certain issues.

"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of US. the undermining of sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government".

- Chester Ward, Rear Admiral and former Navy Judge Advocate 1956 - 1960 and CFR member for 15 years

[Steven]

More "convincing" evidence from the Pentagon.

Osama Bin Laden: Pentagon releases home videos

[breadandcheese]

Ah, but what I'm saying is that aluminium cannot penetrate and damage a hundred or so massive steel columns. It might damage 10 or 20 of them as it hits but by the time the plane has hit 10 or 20 of the columns it would have been basically disintergrated and would have no effect on the other beams all over the rest of the floors it hit. Most of the steel beams on the whole area of floors the planes hit would have stayed intact and strong. And if anything, the floors above would have slipped off to one side and not brought the whole building down in it's footprint.

Scientifically impossible.

Scientifically impossible? Thank you professor El Empty, but I'd rather trust Isaac Newton on this.

Force = Mass * Acceleration

A simple equation from my GCSE days but certainly correct, one you would do well to remember.

As MPH said steel loses integrity and strength the closer to its melting point it gets.

[Steven]

Vote Ron Paul. We need someone like him in the UK and Europe.

Freedomwatch: Ron Paul Only Candidate Within Striking Distance From Obama In Latest CNN Poll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJow2ALVirk