Andy King.

[foxfanazer]

same as always, when we win, you all come out and say "you know what, kingy does a lot off the ball to help the team" then when we loose its "get rid of king, not strong enough, does nothing except score" its just so damn predictable now.

I agree, so fickle!

[Fox92]

same as always, when we win, you all come out and say "you know what, kingy does a lot off the ball to help the team" then when we loose its "get rid of king, not strong enough, does nothing except score" its just so damn predictable now.

To be fair, I would think that happens at every club. I can understand it when people post 'other people are fickle', but it isn't just us, I would think all football fan's are the same.

[paddy Agyemang]

When Kingy leaves us ull all wish he was still here, at the end of the day he bags. Leave him alone

[Happy Fox]

I would definitely keep King without a shadow of a doubt as he will improve with age, lest not forget he still youngish unlike Wellens who's best years are behind him. I think King is bit jaded at the moment but the fact we have no replacements which are not deemed good enough to replace him tell us how the situation is.

[volpeazzurro]

I don't buy into the King myth, for me he's poor. He does look busy running round but invarioubly in the wrong place at the wrong time and has no impact on the game whatsoever. If we had a decent midfield our strikers would score more. He's not worth the shirt and hasn't been for a long while. Wellens for all his faults at least is involved doing the unfashionable things,

[marbelladave]

Sometimes I simply can not understand how so many people can get this so wrong.

King is comfortably our best midfield player, but like all players he has his strengths and weaknesses. Being played out of position as an attacking player for the last season and a half has done him no good at all and now he is being asked to hold central midfield virtually unaided.

His defensive play in and around our box is often the only cover our back 4 gets, but he can't do it all on his own, I know he lacks presence in the cental third but that has always been the case, he is in the side for his work in both penalty areas and needs a partner to complement him rather than one who, these days, is all 'bluster'.

[Pooley]

I, unfortunately, can't get to the games but from what I've read and heard there seems to be an underlying problem with King and Wellens in that they need a ball winner in there with them, a Neil Lennon type. This would obviously then mean doing away with one of the wide men but giving the other midfielders a bit more freedom. Abe, Fenandes or Bamba perhaps.

[Criggers]

I still think the only way Wellens an King can play together is 4-3-3.

I would still like to see a runout of Fernandes, king & abe with any combination of dyer, nugent, becks, schlupp, gally up front.

Either way I dot think its a coincidence that when Wellens wasn't playing we stuck four past derby.

King just looks lost in a 4-4-2 these days.

[Babylon]

For over a year now I have been saying there is no way we can play King, Wellens and Gallagher in the same midfield. What is even worse now under Pearson is that Dyer has been added to those three. It has to be the worst selection of what should be a balanced midfield that could possibly be brought together with the players available.

I was right last season, and I am still right now. I have always suggested that as individual players they are all OK, but I am now starting to think differently, they are very average, and constitute one of the weakest midfields in the Championship.

It is time the fans faced facts, they are poor and it puts a seriously large question mark over Pearson's ability. If you also put Danns into the mix, we have Pearson in effect put Wellens, King, Dyer, Gallagher and Danns ALL above Abe, Fernandes and Johnson.

We need the men in white jackets to take Pearson to the 'funny farm'!

Funny I didn't see you saying this after the first 3 games, now we lose one with 10 men and draw a game we should and could have won.... and all of a sudden, all the players are shit, the manager is shit and average players who haven't done anything for us are suddenly brilliant (based on god knows what).

I absolutely detest Leicester fans and their ridiculous over the top reactions. I could just about understand half the posts on here if we'd been utterly shit in all the games, but we haven't. We've lost one game!

[BrummieFOX]

Funny I didn't see you saying this after the first 3 games, now we lose one with 10 men and draw a game we should and could have won.... and all of a sudden, all the players are shit, the manager is shit and average players who haven't done anything for us are suddenly brilliant (based on god knows what).

I absolutely detest Leicester fans and their ridiculous over the top reactions. I could just about understand half the posts on here if we'd been utterly shit in all the games, but we haven't. We've lost one game!

Ahhh, some sense.

[marbelladave]

I, unfortunately, can't get to the games but from what I've read and heard there seems to be an underlying problem with King and Wellens in that they need a ball winner in there with them, a Neil Lennon type. This would obviously then mean doing away with one of the wide men but giving the other midfielders a bit more freedom. Abe, Fenandes or Bamba perhaps.

Sort of.....

King's strengths are in (and around) both penalty areas, very good defensively at our end and a fine goalscorer at the other. In the central third he is a simple 'give and go' type, effective but unspectacular, but he lacks physical presence on the defensive side. Sadly his current partner does nothing to complement him, either defensively or going forward.

The obvious choice to partner him is Fernandes, who is sound defensively and has boundless energy in the middle third to give our midfield real presence, supported by King. Furthermore Fernandes is prepared to get forward, at pace, with or without the ball. He might not be the most creative player but the sight of him driving forward with the ball at his feet will unsettle a defence in a way that Wellen's speculative passing will not.

Sadly it appears that he is not in NFP's plans, maybe the rumours that he wants away are true.......

[Pooley]

It

Sort of.....

King's strengths are in (and around) both penalty areas, very good defensively at our end and a fine goalscorer at the other. In the central third he is a simple 'give and go' type, effective but unspectacular, but he lacks physical presence on the defensive side. Sadly his current partner does nothing to complement him, either defensively or going forward.

The obvious choice to partner him is Fernandes, who is sound defensively and has boundless energy in the middle third to give our midfield real presence, supported by King. Furthermore Fernandes is prepared to get forward, at pace, with or without the ball. He might not be the most creative player but the sight of him driving forward with the ball at his feet will unsettle a defence in a way that Wellen's speculative passing will not.

Sadly it appears that he is not in NFP's plans, maybe the rumours that he wants away are true.......

Might work but then where's the midfield creativity? We have players good at certain things but not good all-rounders.

[accessory]

It

Might work but then where's the midfield creativity? We have players good at certain things but not good all-rounders.

Fernandes, Abe and even Danns can be creative, as they showed against Derby. Indeed they played with a lot more freedom than they do when a certain malevolent force is in the team.

That force is holding King back, and has done for some time, hence the reason why Sousa and Sven brought so many midfielders into the club. Unfortunately a powerful clique within the dressing-room decided their positions were under threat (rightly so in some cases) so conspired to undermine the new arrivals and force out the managers who signed them.

[Guest Col city fan]

Fernandes, Abe and even Danns can be creative, as they showed against Derby. Indeed they played with a lot more freedom than they do when a certain malevolent force is in the team.

That force is holding King back, and has done for some time, hence the reason why Sousa and Sven brought so many midfielders into the club. Unfortunately a powerful clique within the dressing-room decided their positions were under threat (rightly so in some cases) so conspired to undermine the new arrivals and force out the managers who signed them.

If this so-called 'Malevolent force' (Wellens, I assume..) conspired to force out Sven and Sousa, my first thought is this... Both Sousa and Sven must have been complete wet-farts to allow it to happen.

If you're the manager, you're the boss..end of..no excuses.

I think that Pearson, as with MON, as with Sir Alex, as with Mourinho, as with Nigel Atkins, as with many many many more would take this player and either get him playing for them, or get rid of him.

Is this really the basis if your argument..that neither Sven nor Sousa could manage their players?

Tell me something we don't know.

[marbelladave]

Might work but then where's the midfield creativity? We have players good at certain things but not good all-rounders.

The creativity comes from three attacking players in front of King and Fernandes supporting a lone frontman, for the moment a job that has to be shared between Nugent and Howard.

I would go with two quick players starting wide, Nugent, Schlupp or Dyer plus a creative player in the hole, probably Gallagher.

[marbelladave]

If this so-called 'Malevolent force' (Wellens, I assume..) conspired to force out Sven and Sousa, my first thought is this... Both Sousa and Sven must have been complete wet-farts to allow it to happen.

If you're the manager, you're the boss..end of..no excuses.

I think that Pearson, as with MON, as with Sir Alex, as with Mourinho, as with Nigel Atkins, as with many many many more would take this player and either get him playing for them, or get rid of him.

Is this really the basis if your argument..that neither Sven nor Sousa could manage their players?

Tell me something we don't know.

You make a good point though if you could offer any insight into how Wellens was allowed to try and run our midfield as a 'non running quarterback' it would probably help....

[Guest Col city fan]

You make a good point though if you could offer any insight into how Wellens was allowed to try and run our midfield as a 'non running quarterback' it would probably help....

cmon Dave.. you're brighter than me mate... I've not followed this non-running quarterback thing to be fair.

What I'm assuming you mean is that Wellens can't run much anymore... if so, as I said earlier, I agree his legs are going.

Svens biggest failing IMO is that he didn't recruit a 'running quarterback'.. what a team we would be if we had a younger player who can ping the ball around like Wellens can, but with the legs to get to the ball in the first place, track back, tackle etc etc.

I'd do what I've said all season Dave. Provide Wellens with a second set of legs..with a bloke who is big and tough and who can make the defensive runs, win the ball and then to give it to Wellens to spray it about. King can't do this and neither Gelson or Abe are good enough at it.

This, for me, is why the King/Wellens thing aint working.. Maybe Bamba/Wellens might get the desired result?

[Corky]

I, like dave, believe that Fernandes would be a more suitable partner for King. His style is similar in the defensive respect, whilst he has more energy and a stronger presence in the middle. King's runs could continue with this.

Also, as Thrac has said, Wellens's style does not suit King's. Wellens prefers the more expansive pass, not playing the "give and go" that King does. Fernandes wouldn't play the longer passes so King might become involved more often.

[marbelladave]

cmon Dave.. you're brighter than me mate... I've not followed this non-running quarterback thing to be fair.

What I'm assuming you mean is that Wellens can't run much anymore... if so, as I said earlier, I agree his legs are going.

Svens biggest failing IMO is that he didn't recruit a 'running quarterback'.. what a team we would be if we had a younger player who can ping the ball around like Wellens can, but with the legs to get to the ball in the first place, track back, tackle etc etc.

I'd do what I've said all season Dave. Provide Wellens with a second set of legs..with a bloke who is big and tough and who can make the defensive runs, win the ball and then to give it to Wellens to spray it about. King can't do this and neither Gelson or Abe are good enough at it.

This, for me, is why the King/Wellens thing aint working.. Maybe Bamba/Wellens might get the desired result?

I refer to those games, a fair few this season, where Wellens sat at the base of the diamond and sprayed speculative passes up to our forwards. They were hit long so that he could stand back and admire his handiwork without having to break into a run and get forward in support. That most of them were picked off easily enough by the defence left Wellens standing hands on hips or berating our forwards for not making the right runs.

This lack of energy (lazyness?) is exactly why your suggestion will not work, Wellens does not get forward quickly enough to get into positions where he can make killer passes, the recent assist for Beckfords goal is what he should be doing all the time but doesn't. You can get your 'tough guy' to give Wellens all the possession you want but he will still hit his passes from deep rather than do the work to get forward to where his passing game might actually acheive something.

We have had this discussion before so I am not going to labour the point any more than I already have, but I am so fed up with the Wellens - King pairing that I would actually go along with your suggestion if it was the only way to break them up..........

[marbelladave]

I, like dave, believe that Fernandes would be a more suitable partner for King. His style is similar in the defensive respect, whilst he has more energy and a stronger presence in the middle. King's runs could continue with this.

Also, as Thrac has said, Wellens's style does not suit King's. Wellens prefers the more expansive pass, not playing the "give and go" that King does. Fernandes wouldn't play the longer passes so King might become involved more often.

I have been banging on about how Fernandes and King are the obvious pairing virtually from the day Fernandes arrived, yet it has never been tried, why FFS........

Crazy when you consider that Fernandes played that role for Sven at Citeh, in the Premier league, how on earth did he think that he could not play that role in the Championship?

Sadly I think that particular ship has sailed, Sven never tried it and although NFP had the perfect excuse ( Fernandes' steller performance in midweek) to try it on Saturday he simply wasn't having it. Shame but I think that means the end, Fernandes will be gone in January.....

[Guest Col city fan]

I refer to those games, a fair few this season, where Wellens sat at the base of the diamond and sprayed speculative passes up to our forwards. They were hit long so that he could stand back and admire his handiwork without having to break into a run and get forward in support. That most of them were picked off easily enough by the defence left Wellens standing hands on hips or berating our forwards for not making the right runs.

This lack of energy (lazyness?) is exactly why your suggestion will not work, Wellens does not get forward quickly enough to get into positions where he can make killer passes, the recent assist for Beckfords goal is what he should be doing all the time but doesn't. You can get your 'tough guy' to give Wellens all the possession you want but he will still hit his passes from deep rather than do the work to get forward to where his passing game might actually acheive something.

We have had this discussion before so I am not going to labour the point any more than I already have, but I am so fed up with the Wellens - King pairing that I would actually go along with your suggestion if it was the only way to break them up..........

Point made very clearly and succinctly Dave and you may well have something here.

However, I do think this whole thread is pretty academic cos I dont think Nige will drop Wellens. I could be wrong but I really doubt it in this case.

[fosseman]

Perhaps Nige will drop Wellens if enough people post for it on this board!

[Guest Col city fan]

Any chance we can do the same for Beckford please?

lol

[marbelladave]

Point made very clearly and succinctly Dave and you may well have something here.

However, I do think this whole thread is pretty academic cos I dont think Nige will drop Wellens. I could be wrong but I really doubt it in this case.

I fear you might be right, time will tell......

Perhaps Nige will drop Wellens if enough people post for it on this board!

What a great thought, after all we know NFP reads this board,,,,,,,,

Any chance we can do the same for Beckford please?

lol

One step at a time, you help me get rid of Ritchie and I'll support your move to get rid of Becks....... :thumbsup:

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Any chance we can do the same for Beckford please?

lol

Careful Col city fan, people are allowed to slag Wellens off but NOT Beckford