The Doctor Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 My 14 year old daughter asked me if i`d seen this video and told me that it was amazing, she wants to donate to get the bracelet (not with my cash she aint). Targeting kids with the promise of a poster and a dog tag on a piece of string bracelet, that will make you look cool at school.... Classic. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book for "raising awareness" - nothing to do with the money, of course not. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain taking himself a nice little wedge. As for the Kony 2012 stuff, it's really getting on my tits. Yeah the bloke has committed some absolute atrocities but the UPDF are hardly saints themselves - Let's stop him by recruiting "soldiers" from age 13, invade nearby countries, then rape and steal. Not sure how that's in anyway good, but still, a 30 minute piece of blatant propaganda says it's fine, so who am I to argue? And I can't help but think calling in the American military to help provide peace and stability might be ever so slightly stupid - they did such a great job with Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan after-all.
Jackirius Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 Oh man, if Kony ever caught those invisible children they'd make some pretty awesome soldiers
Webbo Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 Spot on. Deleted someone linking this shit off my wall earlier. It's not that he isn't a deranged terrorist that needs stopping but I just hate that 'raising awareness' becomes more a fashion statement than a well held belief. +1
Daggers Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 They probably could do more but have other priorities, I think social media and public pressure should be used to help Governments form policies but not dictate priorities. Social media will be effective when public opinion is different to that of the Government, but in this case the US Government and KONY2012 action group are in complete agreement. Really? I get the distinct impression that everyone clicking on 'like' wants something done now. What KONY 2012 and the public don't have information on is what secret operations the government are currently conducting against Kony and other international terrorist groups. They could have spent 5 years getting a man on the inside, getting close to Kony and could be close to ending it. They could. On the other hand maybe they haven't? I don't see how this is in the least bit relevant as this is nothing more than an argument to never do anything in case it's already being addressed by our elders and betters. That's the traditional way of ignoring public opinion which inspired a Facebook generation to start sharing videos and clicking on buttons.
Daggers Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 Spot on. Deleted someone linking this shit off my wall earlier. It's not that he isn't a deranged terrorist that needs stopping but I just hate that 'raising awareness' becomes more a fashion statement than a well held belief. Does that invalidate it then? I don't get that at all either - it seems like it's akin to not liking your favourite band anymore because they've just appeared on a teen Sunday morning C4 pop show with Pixie Lott. I love it that a load of non-politicised friends have taken an interest in something.
Captain... Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 Really? I get the distinct impression that everyone clicking on 'like' wants something done now. So do I so do the american Goevernment, do really think that since declaring them a terrorist threat 4 years ago, the US Government have been waiting for an internet campaign to kill him, he has probably been lined up in the crosshairs for 3 years, but they waiting for enough public interest before they pull the trigger!!! It took them 10 years to find and kill Osama Bin Laden, do you not think they wanted to do it quicker, do you really honestly think that it is just a case of deciding when they kill him. They could. On the other hand maybe they haven't?I don't see how this is in the least bit relevant as this is nothing more than an argument to never do anything in case it's already being addressed by our elders and betters. That's the traditional way of ignoring public opinion which inspired a Facebook generation to start sharing videos and clicking on buttons. Because they have been aware of him and tracking him for 4 years, you do not know what attempts they have made, there are reports of attacks on his group that has a) driven them deeper in to the jungle, and b) had serious consequences. You don't know what progress they have made, or haven't made. Maybe they haven't done anything about it because there are bigger threats to national security that don't have a facebook campaign.
Daggers Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 So do I so do the american Goevernment, do really think that since declaring them a terrorist threat 4 years ago, the US Government have been waiting for an internet campaign to kill him, he has probably been lined up in the crosshairs for 3 years, but they waiting for enough public interest before they pull the trigger!!! It took them 10 years to find and kill Osama Bin Laden, do you not think they wanted to do it quicker, do you really honestly think that it is just a case of deciding when they kill him. Have I advocated assassinating him? Nope. Because they have been aware of him and tracking him for 4 years, you do not know what attempts they have made, there are reports of attacks on his group that has a) driven them deeper in to the jungle, and b) had serious consequences. You don't know what progress they have made, or haven't made. Maybe they haven't done anything about it because there are bigger threats to national security that don't have a facebook campaign. Maybes, could'ves, possiblies... I can't and won't start getting into a debate based on conjecture. I asked for people to validate for me why social media was the bad thing it was being claimed to be and I'm simply not interested in going down this cul-de-sac.
Captain... Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 Have I advocated assassinating him? Nope. Whatever it is these people want the Government to do, assasinate him, bring him to trial for war crimes, negotiate peace terms, it is not going to happen just like that, that is my point. My argument is not that social media campaiging for a change is a bad thing, but it should not dictate when or how the Governments act, international conflicts and military action is not something that should be taken lightly and Governments should not be strongarmed into acting on anything other than their own timetable. This is no different to the Sun's campaign to deport Abu Qatada. Read this: http://www.foreignaf...e-lra?page=show linked to by anothernarboroughfox's post on the first page. It explains the consequences and problems of a previous attempt to capture/kill Kony and also mentions another proposed attempt that predates the social media campaign, which I don't think has happened yet. Now back to my point, the US is doing everything it can to stop Kony, they are in complete agreement with the campaigners, Kony is a brutal warlord and needs to be stopped, they have plans to go in there and stop him. So what the fvck are they campaiging for?
Daggers Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 My argument is not that social media campaiging for a change is a bad thing, but it should not dictate when or how the Governments act, international conflicts and military action is not something that should be taken lightly and be strongarmed into acting on anything other than their own timetable. Why? It would have stopped Bliar indulging himself in a totally illegal war and saved thousands of lives. Governments shouldn't be strong-armed into taking action? Millions were telling Blair not to get involved - but he was strong-armed by Bush into going along with a charade and basing lie upon lie to Parliament and the nation. Where's the democracy in that? Where is the justice? That timetable sucks arse.
Captain... Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 Why? It would have stopped Bliar indulging himself in a totally illegal war and saved thousands of lives. Governments shouldn't be strong-armed into taking action? Millions were telling Blair not to get involved - but he was strong-armed by Bush into going along with a charade and basing lie upon lie to Parliament and the nation. Where's the democracy in that? Where is the justice? That timetable sucks arse. That is exactly my point about campaigning, you campaign when a government is doing something you oppose, not when they are doing what you want. I have said this about 3 times now, you are either being deliberately dense or just not reading what I have written.
Daggers Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 That is exactly my point about campaigning, you campaign when a government is doing something you oppose, not when they are doing what you want. I have said this about 3 times now, you are either being deliberately dense or just not reading what I have written. I'm not going to get into an abuse fest with you, you want to wave your iDick about go waggle it in someone else's monitor - there was no call for the dense comment, it just makes you as bad as Chandler The Cavecvnt. I started to answer and thought 'fvck it', I've told you twice that you are referring to mystery actions no one knows anything about so they feel they're not being done - I'm not going to do it a third time. Damn, looks like I just did.
Captain... Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 I'm not going to get into an abuse fest with you, you want to wave your iDick about go waggle it in someone else's monitor - there was no call for the dense comment, it just makes you as bad as Chandler The Cavecvnt. I started to answer and thought 'fvck it', I've told you twice that you are referring to mystery actions no one knows anything about so they feel they're not being done - I'm not going to do it a third time. Damn, looks like I just did. I didn't call you dense I said you are either being deliberately dense (i.e. deliberately misunderstanding my point to try and get a reaction) or not reading what I am writing. I have posted a link to an article, so I am not talking about mystery actions, I am talking about what happened in 2008 when the US intervened against Kony, and the announcement in November that they were going to make another attempt to intervene. I am not disagreeing with you about social media being used as a form of political pressure. I am saying in this case I don't know what they are hoping to acheive when the US Government has already made a number of attempts to broker peace with Kony and remove him by force. (With facts to back it up). If the US were refusing to get involved and take any action, then I would understand the fuss and support it. (This is still without tackling the reservations about the organisation that is fronting the campaign, but that is a different argument).
Daggers Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 I didn't call you dense I said you are either being deliberately dense (i.e. deliberately misunderstanding my point to try and get a reaction) or not reading what I am writing. This is getting ridiculous now. Goodnight.
Captain... Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 This is getting ridiculous now. Goodnight. Just respond to the points I'm making: You said you didn't want to deal with conjecture so I linked to the article (linked to on the first page) detailing what action the US had taken, it's success and the consequences, you refused to respond to that and decided to change the subject and start talking about protesting the war in Iraq. Which is no way a similar situation to the current campaign for intervention against Kony, as I had said many times I fully support campaigning against Governments taking action you oppose. So based on the evidence in the article http://www.foreignaf...e-lra?page=show do you think the US Government has done what it can, and agree that it still has ambitions to stop Kony? If not please point out the inaccuracies in the article. If you do think, like I do, that the US Government has made serious attempts to stop Kony and are planning to make further attempts at stopping him, then what purpose does this campaign serve? I would genuinely be interested to know. Edit: I would also like to point out that you asked for a reason why: I'd love someone to explain to me why this is so bad because I'm just not getting it at the moment.
NeilyBoy Posted 8 March 2012 Posted 8 March 2012 What's with all the Captain love, Daggers? I'm going to paraphrase a post I made on page 2 that went ignored by you in the hope it clears up what Shrapnel's getting at: The problem isn't the power of social media (that's undeniably a good thing); it's the way it's being used in this case and the fact that it simply won't be the clincher for the US govt considering they've been making moves towards dealing with this arsehole without the entire nation liking a 30 minute video and providing money to some previously unknown company (who clearly have priority issues when it comes to how that money's spent and are presumably laughing their way to the bank right now, badass AK's and rocket launcher in hand). The only way I see this campaign speeding the process up is if Kony somehow feels threatened and decides to step it up, forcing the US to be more direct.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 16 March 2012 Posted 16 March 2012 Well there's a twist I wasn't expecting: http://m.nbcsandiego.com/nbcsandiego/pm_112459/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=IeFCD927
Jaspa Posted 17 March 2012 Posted 17 March 2012 http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/kony-2012-state-propaganda-for-a-new-generation/ Any opinions on this ? I found it very . . . . Interesting
ozleicester Posted 17 March 2012 Posted 17 March 2012 no comment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhhRJoCQfn0
Bellend Sebastian Posted 17 March 2012 Posted 17 March 2012 I hope he doesn't get in too much trouble. I mean, we've all gone mental and ran about wanking before being arrested at some point
Daggers Posted 17 March 2012 Posted 17 March 2012 I hope he doesn't get in too much trouble. I mean, we've all gone mental and ran about wanking before being arrested at some point Yea, but... Jason Russell, 33, was allegedly found masturbating in public, vandalizing cars ...that's one fvcking great cock if he can 'vandalize' cars with it.
anotherharboroughfox Posted 17 March 2012 Posted 17 March 2012 meh, everyone's forgotten about Kony now anyway.
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