Budget 2012 - Thoughts?

[sphericalfox]

The argument is that is discourages people for working here, running businesses here and indeed those that do from taking dividends out of their companies. In my experience this is a genuine issue when multinational companies decide where people can and do work. I work with a number of people who base themselves elsewhere in Europe because their roles involve a lot of travel and they can make that choice. As more and more jobs become mobile through technology this will likely increase in my view.

That's why it's a farce and whilst on the surface to Joe Public it looks as though they are hitting these greedy corporations hard, yet behind closed doors are sorting out deals to counteract these taxes.

GSK make about 24 billion a year. How much of that profit comes from the NHS? I wonder what they'll make next year when the GP consortia's are obliged to discuss overpriced drugs with their new pharmaceutical overlords.

[Zingari]

What I don't get is George Osborn's claim that the 50p tax rate is bringing in piddling amounts in one breath then he goes on to say that its damagimg the economy? If its such a small amount how much damage does it do?

i thought the very same thing

[danny.]

i thought the very same thing

As Jon said pretty much, if you have to give 1/2 of all the money you make away, then people will just move to/work from another country with a lower tax rate. In which case the UK gets nothing. So lowering the rate from 50% to say 40%, if it means more people then start to pay tax to the UK, it brings in a lot more money.

[Daggers]

I'm confused, are you having a go at caveman or myself?

Neither - I was ridiculing his post which you quoted

[sphericalfox]

Neither - I was ridiculing his post which you quoted

Ah, it was early in the morning, and couldn't wrap my head around it.

[21st Century Fox]

As Jon said pretty much, if you have to give 1/2 of all the money you make away, then people will just move to/work from another country with a lower tax rate. In which case the UK gets nothing. So lowering the rate from 50% to say 40%, if it means more people then start to pay tax to the UK, it brings in a lot more money.

I don't see Sir Philip Green signing his Arcadia empire back over from his Monaco dwelling wife just yet.

[Webbo]

What is the point of announcing a budget that states no change in alcohol duty and then say they are introducing a minimum 40p per unit on it ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17482035

OK, the retailers may have higher profit margins , but that will still be taxed .

When I was down the Legion last night my beer had gone up 5p a pint.

[dave the caveman]

Oh thank you so much for quoting that imbecile's post - how naive a cvnt do you have to be to believe that an international corporation will make a major investment decision within a couple of hours of a budget?

Yep, no meetings, no weighing up option - just BANG! right in there with the commitment. They'd not spent months planning this or anything, they don't need to, that's not how you run a successful business.

Weak. Dissapointingly weak. I'm too depressed by the hopelessness of your idiocy to bother putting too much effort into this reply, so i'll just drop a few words: communication... having some idea of what was to be announced... strategy... planning for different scenarios.

[dave the caveman]

I don't get this getting paid more for working harder, people don't get paid for working hard they generally get paid more because there job requires greater intelligence, knowledge or responsibility or it has a degree of uniqueness.

I've been a Senior Manager and I earn't more than the people I was responsible for but I wouldn't say I worked harder than them.

The refuse collectors that come around my streets work bloody hard running up and down the street with heavy bins, care workers constantly on the go there are many examples of low paid people working extremely hard and long hours, are they working any less hard than some software engineer or some money speculator, I don't believe that to be the norm, in fact I know it's not having seen lazy, skiving senior highly paid people in places I've worked at.

There's hard working and lazy ****ers in every trade and business.

Ask a senior software engineer to develop a programme that produces some specific style of report on some specialised business data and he'll do it in five minutes, take his £200 and then spend the rest of the day on the golf course. It looks like he doesn't work very hard.

Ask the extremely hard working manual labourer to produce the same programme and he'll have to do a one-year foundation course to get into uni, then he'll have to do a three year degree, then he'll have to find a job and work his way up for a few years while learning how the business works. So it'll take him about eight years.

Meanwhile, ask the senior software engineer to learn how to put bags in the back of a truck and it'll take him about ten seconds.

So who should be paid more?

[dave the caveman]

Are you ****ing serious. Glaxo and the other multi-nationals the government are courting are innovative and bringing prosperity to the UK? If the government spent more of it's time supporting the medium sized businesses in this country by forcing the government owned bank to lend them money to invest in innovation and expansion, and jobs, do you think that would be a better concept? No the look after themselves and cronies first and foremost, as they have done in the past.

What you are failing to understand is that every government does the same thing. Accusing me of being a leftie and knowing about fook all about my stance politically I find amusing. What I am stating is that the Tories won't be changing the tune any time soon, and sure enough where one corporate gets their way predictably the day of the budget is revealed, we shall see a glut of the same deals done. I wonder how many more will be NHS related.

I wait with baited breath.

Well I'm not sure I agree with this wacky paranoia and fear of corperations just because they are corperations. I don't see any reason why it should be assumed that all large companies are evil and up to no good while by becoming slightly smaller they are automatically good and deserving of forced goverment support. Maybe the government think that attracting the bigger companies with the bigger turnover and greater potential to affect the economy is a better idea than attracting smaller companies with less ability to do so. Even so I'm sure you'll find that there is support for medium sized companies, even small companies. The UK is among the easiest places in the world to do business. It's one of our many strong points, which a lot of people seem to lose sight of amongst the constant barrage of negativity coming through in the media.

[Daggers]

Simply brilliant, and I've never been that much of a fan, but this is superb.

[davieG]

Ask a senior software engineer to develop a programme that produces some specific style of report on some specialised business data and he'll do it in five minutes, take his £200 and then spend the rest of the day on the golf course. It looks like he doesn't work very hard.

Ask the extremely hard working manual labourer to produce the same programme and he'll have to do a one-year foundation course to get into uni, then he'll have to do a three year degree, then he'll have to find a job and work his way up for a few years while learning how the business works. So it'll take him about eight years.

Meanwhile, ask the senior software engineer to learn how to put bags in the back of a truck and it'll take him about ten seconds.

So who should be paid more?

Well done for missing my point completely (and you have the nerve to call others idiots) and in fact confirming what i said, Did i say the software engineer shouldn't be paid more I said he wasn't being paid more because he worked harder. The reason i said that is because so many people say that those at the top of the financial tree earn more because '"they work harder" which is clearly not the case.

Just to clarify my position on this and to make it clear to your obviously biased and blinkered viewpoint I've had, as a Senior Manager software engineers working for me in my team that earned considerable more than me I had no problems with that, it wasn't because they were working harder than me it was because they had a unique skill that was hard to come by.

[Jon the Hat]

That's why it's a farce and whilst on the surface to Joe Public it looks as though they are hitting these greedy corporations hard, yet behind closed doors are sorting out deals to counteract these taxes.

GSK make about 24 billion a year. How much of that profit comes from the NHS? I wonder what they'll make next year when the GP consortia's are obliged to discuss overpriced drugs with their new pharmaceutical overlords.

You do realise that countries compete for tax revenues though right? If we increase corporation tax, companies structure themselves to pay tax in other jurisdictions. So increasing tax doesn't get you more tax revenue, it gets you less - as along with the profits go the jobs and income tax, NI, VAT etc that comes with them. LIkewise having a flat rate corporation tax doesn't work when other countries are offering incentives. While the small businessman might complain that he pays a certain rate and big corporation pay less, this is the reality of a world were scale brings power to move large amounts of tax. This is what the man on the street doesn't really see. Take the Vodafone deal. They could move their HQ to Switzerland and the UK would lose out on billions every year, so pushing them on one tax bill would have been counter productive.

[Daggers]

[dave the caveman]

Well done for missing my point completely (and you have the nerve to call others idiots) and in fact confirming what i said, Did i say the software engineer shouldn't be paid more I said he wasn't being paid more because he worked harder. The reason i said that is because so many people say that those at the top of the financial tree earn more because '"they work harder" which is clearly not the case.

Just to clarify my position on this and to make it clear to your obviously biased and blinkered viewpoint I've had, as a Senior Manager software engineers working for me in my team that earned considerable more than me I had no problems with that, it wasn't because they were working harder than me it was because they had a unique skill that was hard to come by.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. My point is that people usually have to work hard over a long period of time gaining skills, knowledge and experience before they get to a position where they don't work particularly hard in the present moment. So a direct comparison of who is working hardest in the present moment isn't fair.

[sphericalfox]

You do realise that countries compete for tax revenues though right? If we increase corporation tax, companies structure themselves to pay tax in other jurisdictions. So increasing tax doesn't get you more tax revenue, it gets you less - as along with the profits go the jobs and income tax, NI, VAT etc that comes with them. LIkewise having a flat rate corporation tax doesn't work when other countries are offering incentives. While the small businessman might complain that he pays a certain rate and big corporation pay less, this is the reality of a world were scale brings power to move large amounts of tax. This is what the man on the street doesn't really see. Take the Vodafone deal. They could move their HQ to Switzerland and the UK would lose out on billions every year, so pushing them on one tax bill would have been counter productive.

What exactly have you just said, that I didn't?

[davieG]

I wasn't disagreeing with you. My point is that people usually have to work hard over a long period of time gaining skills, knowledge and experience before they get to a position where they don't work particularly hard in the present moment. So a direct comparison of who is working hardest in the present moment isn't fair.

So while those people are working harder over a long period of time gaining their skills you think the lower paid worker is not?

Working harder is simply not a valid statement to use to justify why some people are paid more as I said in my original post it's because they have

greater intelligence, knowledge or responsibility or it has a degree of uniqueness. I just wish people would stop using it because it's wrong and insulting to lower paid workers.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

The goverment are just idiotic money grabbing fools.

Go back to cloud 9.

[Daggers]

Senior Tory MPs are now slagging off Osborne for his, and I quote, "inept budget".

C'mon you staunch Tories on here: the media, the electorate and now his party are calling it ridiculous...you can join in too without losing too much face.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-attack-osborne-over-inept-budget-7584110.html

[Zingari]

Senior Tory MPs are now slagging off Osborne for his, and I quote, "inept budget".

C'mon you staunch Tories on here: the media, the electorate and now his party are calling it ridiculous...you can join in too without losing too much face.

http://www.independe...et-7584110.html

They are probably just sucking up to the pensioners who are in all likelihood giving local MPs a load of grief

[Bayfox]

How come they can add the tax to fags in a matter of hours but it takes 12 months before they will increase the tax free allowance???

Oh and I'm not a smoker before anyone assumes, I am glad my beer is staying the same tho.

Wish they would do something with fuel duty, as a small business we only run 1 van and 2 cars, but filling up the van is now £100 a time at least, give us a break, we pay tax and rates and tax our cars etc, a little help in keeping the country moving may help.