Short-termism

[Haydos]

I just wanted to highlight the short-termism of so many of our fans. The performances of Beckford recently have partly inspired this.

I've still not made my mind up about Beckford. This is because I'm not stupid as shit. I give players and squads a chance to see what they can do. I usually reserve judgement until I think they've had enough time. I've backed Beckford since the start (for the record) and have always thought he'll do well for us (and in this division in general). Recently he has shown (what I believe to be) his true form and this helps me make a point.

Like I said, I'm not going to declare that he's our saviour just because he's on a short run of good form. I wish others shared my mentality. Sadly they don't. They will claim that players are 'shit' or 'legends' based on 1 or 2 games and then go further and change their minds completely about players and declare them the complete opposite a few games later.

I suppose all I am asking is people use this example of Beckford's on/off form as a guide for LCFC. We will play well sometimes, we won't at others. But please, for the love of god, stop coming out with shit like 'we're a pile of wank, we're always going to be shit with this twat in charge' after one poor result, which we then turn around completely the following Tuesday. Or 'Ha, fvck everyone, Nigel is the king' after a 2-1 win.

You're entitled to your opinions so do what you will but I implore you to bear with the team. Please, start thinking about the inevitably reactionary comments you're about to make, there's too many of them already. Peace.

[HoustonFox]

Excellent post. As football fans though we are a fickle bunch so I don't think we can help ourselves sometimes. I blame football manager for a lot of it. Haven't we all taken The Foxes to win the Champions League etc? Secret, it's programmed in favour of the user winning (or else you stop playing and never buy It again).

I guess all we want at the end of the day is consistency and that is something this season we haven't had. A real season of highs and lows, where the lows have been very low and the highs very high (risk!).

It would be great to be a Reading or Swansea fan but with some patience we'll be there again. I guess we still haven't recovered from the O'Neill years. What a high they were and we want more.

One last thing. A lot of us complain that "we didn't do this" or "we lost because of that" but we need to remember there is another team out there who's entire job for that 90 mins is to beat us and they've been planning on how to do that for a couple of weeks prior to playing us.

Ok, it's late and I need to sleep.

[NeilyBoy]

http://www.foxestalk...ad/page__st__20

Welcome home.

I've been deliberately avoiding casting any sort of permanent judgement on Jermaine, sticking instead to match-by-match conclusions (ie. "He looked good today" or "he really didn't show up for this match"). To not give a footballer time is to not understand the intrinsic nature of the game. Let's hope this is him finding his feet and not a false dawn.

[Guest Col city fan]

I just wanted to highlight the short-termism of so many of our fans. The performances of Beckford recently have partly inspired this.

I've still not made my mind up about Beckford. This is because I'm not stupid as shit. I give players and squads a chance to see what they can do. I usually reserve judgement until I think they've had enough time. I've backed Beckford since the start (for the record) and have always thought he'll do well for us (and in this division in general). Recently he has shown (what I believe to be) his true form and this helps me make a point.

Like I said, I'm not going to declare that he's our saviour just because he's on a short run of good form. I wish others shared my mentality. Sadly they don't. They will claim that players are 'shit' or 'legends' based on 1 or 2 games and then go further and change their minds completely about players and declare them the complete opposite a few games later.

I suppose all I am asking is people use this example of Beckford's on/off form as a guide for LCFC. We will play well sometimes, we won't at others. But please, for the love of god, stop coming out with shit like 'we're a pile of wank, we're always going to be shit with this twat in charge' after one poor result, which we then turn around completely the following Tuesday. Or 'Ha, fvck everyone, Nigel is the king' after a 2-1 win.

You're entitled to your opinions so do what you will but I implore you to bear with the team. Please, start thinking about the inevitably reactionary comments you're about to make, there's too many of them already. Peace.

Though I applaud your viewpoint on short term ism being 'bad'... I think that's what you are saying? I ask this one simple question.

How long do you give a 'squad' of players in terms of time to get it right?

And individual players also?

Many teams this season have pretty much hit the ground running... Southampton, for example, look like they are going to get back to back promotions. They have had almost instant success, relatively speaking, ever since Adkins took over.

West Ham, with a massive amount of players signed this season, look like they will just about trickle over the line.

Peterborough even, despite selling their prized assets in CMS and McLean, continue to punch above their weight.

What you suggest, to me, is pretty much easy to say, but much harder to define and to answer.

Why do some teams need longer than others to click?

As much as I respect Nigel Pearson, the manager, defensively the squad appears to have taken a nosedive. Even players such as Kasper and Konch, strong all season, suddenly look shaky and nervous. Why is this? Are you suggesting that it's because they haven't had long enough together as a squad?

I think it's more complicated than simply giving a squad time. MON got it just about right after what, 11 or 12 games and then went onto manage possibly the best squad in City's history.

IMO, and it's just my opinion, this season has been bizarre in nature... Inconsistent, good one week, shocking the next, players looking class one week, shocking the next...

Here's the rub... Do people feel that this squad of players have it in them to mount a promotion challenge next season? Or is that too short termist Haydos? Are you thinking about the season after that or the season after that?

Quantify your point with a timescale because what actually constitutes 'short-term' or 'long-term' in football?

And on Beckford, seeing as you use him as an example, I continue to believe that his goal taking is his major asset. I've said this all along.. And if other aspects of his game continue to improve we could have a legend in the making?

But it's a bloody shame it's taken him till just after Christmas to demonstrate these qualities isn't it. Most of you out there, and be honest for a moment, expected him to play much better and to score more goals during the first half of the season. We're we being 'short-termist' to have expected a recognised striker to start scoring pretty soon after he signed for us? Many others have done, Claridge, Cottee, Dicky didn't take half a season to get going did they?

I simply think the whole picture is a lot more complicated than you make out.

It would have been easy for me to applaud you and to concur with every sentence, but there is more to football than giving a squad time to gel. Some just seem to click pretty quickly. Others don't.

Simply then mate, what is 'enough time'?

Football is a results business and your definition of 'enough time' may not equate to that of Pearson or indeed, the Thais?

Sad, but true.

[pSinatra]

Good post Haydos

We have been inconsistent for a long time & it is not something that can be solved overnight.

I have reserved judgement on Beckford, but he is beginning to look like the player we all want him to be.

I think you can include Danns too. Failed to convince early doors, but seems to be improving with every game.

There is potential in the squad to put things right...........but it was never going to be a quick-fix

[Finnegan]

I just wanted to highlight the short-termism of so many of our fans. The performances of Beckford recently have partly inspired this.

I've still not made my mind up about Beckford. This is because I'm not stupid as shit. I give players and squads a chance to see what they can do. I usually reserve judgement until I think they've had enough time. I've backed Beckford since the start (for the record) and have always thought he'll do well for us (and in this division in general). Recently he has shown (what I believe to be) his true form and this helps me make a point.

Like I said, I'm not going to declare that he's our saviour just because he's on a short run of good form. I wish others shared my mentality. Sadly they don't. They will claim that players are 'shit' or 'legends' based on 1 or 2 games and then go further and change their minds completely about players and declare them the complete opposite a few games later.

I suppose all I am asking is people use this example of Beckford's on/off form as a guide for LCFC. We will play well sometimes, we won't at others. But please, for the love of god, stop coming out with shit like 'we're a pile of wank, we're always going to be shit with this twat in charge' after one poor result, which we then turn around completely the following Tuesday. Or 'Ha, fvck everyone, Nigel is the king' after a 2-1 win.

You're entitled to your opinions so do what you will but I implore you to bear with the team. Please, start thinking about the inevitably reactionary comments you're about to make, there's too many of them already. Peace.

I agree for the most part.

But Foxes Talk these days is largely full of reactionary teenage boys who aren't particularly intelligent, I think - year by year - it becomes less and less a true representation of actual City fans, personally.

I work with about four or five season ticket holders and there's a couple in my family, can't say a single one of them is a fickle idiot, they all have a sense of perspective and reality that escapes most of the mouth-breathers on here. And it's not because I only associate with insightful and brilliant people (more's the pity.)

[ozleicester]

If only this thread was posted in September.

[blueharmie]

We're a medium team in the championship.

Let down every year for the last ten odd years.

This team in the premier league would get thrased every week.

Walsh Lennon muzzy ect, that was a real team. A team full of passion and pride. Born winners.

What we have now isn't even close, championship is where we belong it hurts to say.

[Oxfordfox83]

Many teams this season have pretty much hit the ground running... Southampton, for example, look like they are going to get back to back promotions. They have had almost instant success, relatively speaking, ever since Adkins took over.

Didn't we look like we were heading for back to back promotions not so long ago? I wish we could have that fella back...

Col, your example of MON is apposite-you would, without question, have been one of the many calling for his head. Those who were more circumspect benefitted from a longer term view with MON, with Taylor and to a lesser extent with Ollie. Sousa-who knows? Perhaps if he'd had the same regime over him as MON, he'd have been given time, and done the same job in the end. Better than Sven who has flattered to deceive in every job he had.

[Christoph]

We're a medium team in the championship.

Let down every year for the last ten odd years.

This team in the premier league would get thrased every week.

Walsh Lennon muzzy ect, that was a real team. A team full of passion and pride. Born winners.

What we have now isn't even close, championship is where we belong it hurts to say.

I sadly agree. Even if we went up, it would be fairly similar to blackpool and we'd come sinking down eventually.

[smudgerfox]

This is the best thread on the situation that I have read. I too am sick to death of reading that certain players are shit that NFP is a **** and all the rest of it. The truth is many of the celebrity and money-impressed have fallen head over heels for the hype that with rich owners and a celebrity manager in Sven, a flood of new flashy signings , we are in effect a Premiership club in waiting. This is nonsense and always was so. The signings weren't,t that impressive - some were clearly incompatible and they took no account of the need for team spirit. In addition e Championship is always highly competitive and was particularly so this season with promoted clubs like Sourhampton and Brighton far from weaklings and relegated clubs like West Ham always likely to be very strong.

NFP needs to be given time in forging a squad that can deliver over a whole season. To get rid will just take the club backwards for the umpteenth time causing more instability and leaving any new manager with the excuse that there's too little time To put things right.it's worth remembering that most on here and Bentleys Roof would have had Beckfod drummed out of the club. With patience and given NfP said we needed to play more to his strengths we now have two strikers in Nugent and JB that will score enough goals at this level to get us promoted. If Pearson buys one more prolific striiker, he tried for Sharpe and that Fleetwod lad in January, add in Sclupp, a fit Waghorn and the promising Hopper and we have, for the first time, forwards who can do real damage across a whole season.

The midfield and back 5 are more problematic. It seems to me that all or centre midfielders play the box-to-box role better than the holding role. Drink water, Danns, Wellens and King are all better attacking players than defensively. We could probably manage without one or two of them but we need a holding midfielder - an enforcer type.

The recent collapse of the defence is a mystery all the more so because NFP's reputation is for defensive football. I think we have had to go on the offensive to try and win games for a play off place and that has left us exposed. Even though the full backs are two of the fans' firmest favourites, we seem to concede a lot of goals from crosses out wide. And with such experienced centre backs the poor marking in the box is a mystery. This is the one area I am certain NFP can put right. The knee-jerkery has to stop.

[Guest Col city fan]

Good post Haydos

We have been inconsistent for a long time & it is not something that can be solved overnight.

I have reserved judgement on Beckford, but he is beginning to look like the player we all want him to be.

I think you can include Danns too. Failed to convince early doors, but seems to be improving with every game.

There is potential in the squad to put things right...........but it was never going to be a quick-fix

Solved overnight?

Solved overnight?

It's not been solved now over nearly two seasons.

That is despite spending more money in the Championship than other other club, bar one.

I ask the same question of you as I asked of Haydos... When DO you expect some success? Next season or in ten years time?

This really is a ridiculous assertion... The club, any club, must have some sort of business plan and vision for where it wants to be.

And again, IF that is promotion by the end of next season and Nige don't look like he's delivering the goods, he will be sacked, you can bet your bottom dollar. Whether you consider this right or wrong is pretty immaterial. The owners will do what they will do.

No club has any right to success but if you are satisfied this season with being 12th in the table at present, and you put this down to 'there is no quick fix', you are easily very easily pleased.

I think we've majorly underachieved.. Over nearly two seasons now. And I dont make excuses.

I genuinely don't believe most people on here have been 'knee-jerk'. In fact, most are actually very patient. Yes, there is some reactionary stuff following games but I think that's down mainly to frustration or to over excitement.

And it IS a football forum.. It's meant to be opinionated, reactionary, daft, funny, clever, thick etc etc etc....

[Happy Fox]

It is all well and good saying NP will change this, NP will change that, but this is aint good enough for the Thais, they want success and as fans we do as well. So what do we do accept the season is over with 9 games to go, and plan for next season?

Imo the squad should be good enough to get a playoff place at the very least it is not rocket science, the strike force is their, the defenders we have are their, just pick the best defense

Pantsil Mills St Ledger Konchesky

I guarantee you we won't concede that many goals that we are doing atm

Midfield

Marshall Danns Drinkwater Dyer

[Reynard Bleu]

Its almost there isnt it? We do so many good things but we make too many mistakes. You can never be error free but you have to have people who can mitigate the errors or who make less of them. We have too many players who ball watch or who panic when the ball is in or around our box. I don't think wholesale changes are needed, but some things/players will have to change in order to prevent teams scoring so easily against us. I think our current forward players will score us goals and the more they score the more confidence they will gain. I am disappointed that we have not achieved our objecyive this season, very disappointed, but not despondent.

[Mark_w]

I agree with you when talking about Beckford and Danns, but this has to work both ways, Richie Wellens has been good for us in the past yet people on here hate him. If you're going to judge Beckford and Danns over the long term then do the same for Wellens, and to some extent guys like Waggy and Weale (Although he isn't getting in ahead of Kasper any time soon) who where slated last year but where very good during Nigel's first stint at the club.

[sphericalfox]

Though I applaud your viewpoint on short term ism being 'bad'... I think that's what you are saying? I ask this one simple question.

How long do you give a 'squad' of players in terms of time to get it right?

And individual players also?

Many teams this season have pretty much hit the ground running... Southampton, for example, look like they are going to get back to back promotions. They have had almost instant success, relatively speaking, ever since Adkins took over.

West Ham, with a massive amount of players signed this season, look like they will just about trickle over the line.

Peterborough even, despite selling their prized assets in CMS and McLean, continue to punch above their weight.

What you suggest, to me, is pretty much easy to say, but much harder to define and to answer.

Why do some teams need longer than others to click?

As much as I respect Nigel Pearson, the manager, defensively the squad appears to have taken a nosedive. Even players such as Kasper and Konch, strong all season, suddenly look shaky and nervous. Why is this? Are you suggesting that it's because they haven't had long enough together as a squad?

I think it's more complicated than simply giving a squad time. MON got it just about right after what, 11 or 12 games and then went onto manage possibly the best squad in City's history.

IMO, and it's just my opinion, this season has been bizarre in nature... Inconsistent, good one week, shocking the next, players looking class one week, shocking the next...

Here's the rub... Do people feel that this squad of players have it in them to mount a promotion challenge next season? Or is that too short termist Haydos? Are you thinking about the season after that or the season after that?

Quantify your point with a timescale because what actually constitutes 'short-term' or 'long-term' in football?

And on Beckford, seeing as you use him as an example, I continue to believe that his goal taking is his major asset. I've said this all along.. And if other aspects of his game continue to improve we could have a legend in the making?

But it's a bloody shame it's taken him till just after Christmas to demonstrate these qualities isn't it. Most of you out there, and be honest for a moment, expected him to play much better and to score more goals during the first half of the season. We're we being 'short-termist' to have expected a recognised striker to start scoring pretty soon after he signed for us? Many others have done, Claridge, Cottee, Dicky didn't take half a season to get going did they?

I simply think the whole picture is a lot more complicated than you make out.

It would have been easy for me to applaud you and to concur with every sentence, but there is more to football than giving a squad time to gel. Some just seem to click pretty quickly. Others don't.

Simply then mate, what is 'enough time'?

Football is a results business and your definition of 'enough time' may not equate to that of Pearson or indeed, the Thais?

Sad, but true.

I counted 14 questions in there.

The squad has been under immense pressure over the course of the season with the variety reasons that have been covered already in the thousands of posts across the interwebs. However, the response you have provided seems rather critical of the definition of short-termism, as though in a defensive gesture to Haydos.

We all know your stance on Sven and your stance on Beckford. Short-term it was 'he's shit get rid'. Long term it's 'he's okay, he'll be a great asset'. What you fail to understand is what everyone can see and you can't from your obvious backtracking.

There are players in a squad who thrive on confidence play and they need the fans behind them. You spent the first half of the season trying your best to undermine a particular player, as some others have for specific players they just dislike, in the hope they actually fail, so they can feel justified and proved a genius with superior footballing knowledge and assessment accumen, all wrapped in articulation but badly formatted prose.

Now that Beckford is actually coming into a streak it's must be very difficult to discuss this particular player, with the hope that you've laid down enough, generalisms, and 'I knew he'd do well all along' over the last couple of months to be able to say that you were never a hater. That's the the definition of long-term. Putting a plan of action into place and carrying it out over a length or period of time to achieve a goal. How long do you need before everyone forgets? Well that would be difficult one. How long is a piece of string?

I think the expectation from the start of the season damaged us badly. Both the optimists and pessimists. The belief wasn't there, as on a short-term basis there were too many individuals, including the manager being scapegoated individually which had a direct impact on the cohesion and dynamic of the squad. Yes there are other elements about the squad regarding balance and quality, but the for me the bedrock is a support that has consistant voice of support, has a realistic long-term view of what we are trying to achieve.

Have a look back what Sven said at the beginning of the season, and then what Pearson said in his conference. They're not too far apart about what they've tried to say about expectations. Not many listened to this.

Anyway, I'll probably write something in my shitty blog, Col. You can berate me for that, as a personal attack if you wish, 'I just tell it as it is'.

[Guest Col city fan]

I counted 14 questions in there.

The squad has been under immense pressure over the course of the season with the variety reasons that have been covered already in the thousands of posts across the interwebs. However, the response you have provided seems rather critical of the definition of short-termism, as though in a defensive gesture to Haydos.

We all know your stance on Sven and your stance on Beckford. Short-term it was 'he's shit get rid'. Long term it's 'he's okay, he'll be a great asset'. What you fail to understand is what everyone can see and you can't from your obvious backtracking.

There are players in a squad who thrive on confidence play and they need the fans behind them. You spent the first half of the season trying your best to undermine a particular player, as some others have for specific players they just dislike, in the hope they actually fail, so they can feel justified and proved a genius with superior footballing knowledge and assessment accumen, all wrapped in articulation but badly formatted prose.

Now that Beckford is actually coming into a streak it's must be very difficult to discuss this particular player, with the hope that you've laid down enough, generalisms, and 'I knew he'd do well all along' over the last couple of months to be able to say that you were never a hater. That's the the definition of long-term. Putting a plan of action into place and carrying it out over a length or period of time to achieve a goal. How long do you need before everyone forgets? Well that would be difficult one. How long is a piece of string?

I think the expectation from the start of the season damaged us badly. Both the optimists and pessimists. The belief wasn't there, as on a short-term basis there were too many individuals, including the manager being scapegoated individually which had a direct impact on the cohesion and dynamic of the squad. Yes there are other elements about the squad regarding balance and quality, but the for me the bedrock is a support that has consistant voice of support, has a realistic long-term view of what we are trying to achieve.

Have a look back what Sven said at the beginning of the season, and then what Pearson said in his conference. They're not too far apart about what they've tried to say about expectations. Not many listened to this.

Anyway, I'll probably write something in my shitty blog, Col. You can berate me for that, as a personal attack if you wish, 'I just tell it as it is'.

The 'paranoia' bit Spherical comes from your insistence that I am 'trying to undermine a player'.

This may be your warped view of the world that someone on here is deliberately and vindictively trying to get a player 'out of the club'..

But really, think about what you are saying?

If you really read most of my posts on Beckford they are quite balanced. Yes, I admit there have been many of them, but that's because people keep replying. But only over the past few days I've said he's 'a lethal finisher' but 'his first touch is poor' etc etc... I've simply said what I believe. How can what I write on here lead to a player at the club actually leaving anyway? I don't for one moment think Beckford gives a flying Fook about what I or anyone on here would write?

Finally, the OP to the Beckford thread was far more vindictive than anything I've written about him. Why are you not accusing knocking that fella like you are knocking me?

You continue with your paranoia mi old son and I'll continue to post what I believe are my pretty balanced views on Beckford. I was as happy as anybody else when he scored last night and he had a good good game. As I said weeks ago, if it continues I'll be a happy man because I'm a City fan first and foremost. And I'm certainly starting to raise my hands and admit it looks like I had him wrong.

You've been on my case for some strange reason ever since I joined the forum. Were you bullied at school or something?

[sphericalfox]

The 'paranoia' bit Spherical comes from your insistence that I am 'trying to undermine a player'.

This may be your warped view of the world that someone on here is deliberately and vindictively trying to get a player 'out of the club'..

But really, think about what you are saying?

If you really read most of my posts on Beckford they are quite balanced. Yes, I admit there have been many of them, but that's because people keep replying. But only over the past few days I've said he's 'a lethal finisher' but 'his first touch is poor' etc etc... I've simply said what I believe. How can what I write on here lead to a player at the club actually leaving anyway? I don't for one moment think Beckford gives a flying Fook about what I or anyone on here would write?

Finally, the OP to the Beckford thread was far more vindictive than anything I've written about him. Why are you not accusing knocking that fella like you are knocking me?

You continue with your paranoia mi old son and I'll continue to post what I believe are my pretty balanced views on Beckford. I was as happy as anybody else when he scored last night and he had a good good game. As I said weeks ago, if it continues I'll be a happy man because I'm a City fan first and foremost. And I'm certainly starting to raise my hands and admit it looks like I had him wrong.

You've been on my case for some strange reason ever since I joined the forum. Were you bullied at school or something?

Hahahahahaha! I'm balanced about Beckford. Your pattern of posting is remarkable, and you are unlikely to hold your hands up to say that you haven't been on a damage limitation exercise, I appreciate that, why would you? We've all been there at some point in our busy lives.

You post because people reply to you....hmmm. Where's that quote you came up with the other day?

You did exactly what you did with Sven, all in the hope that you'd be justified in your opinion, let's call it a negative marketing exercise. All in the hope that if you say something long and loud enough, as many times as possible, that people will come around to your way of thinking. How does this effect a player. Not directly. I doubt Beckford reads the forum, but some players do. But lots of fans do read this and other forums. Consistant negativity from the outset of this season specifically about Sven eventually got him ousted. Whether or not I agree with this or not it's irrelevant, it seems to me to be a fact, so you might say your participation in that particular campaign was a success.

What irritates me about your approach is your duplicity, and pretending that all long your were giving them a chance, that you knew all along (in Beckford's case) that they would be a potentially a success. No one will go back through your posts (As there are far too fooking many) to the start of the season, as you physically can't do so, so you can't be quoted. But I am not alone in remembering the tone, the stance and angle you took on a variety of two issues (over and over again). Again I don't expect you to admit this, as it's easy to point out your recent posts where you pick particularly generalised terms and sit on fence-isms, and 'I knew it all along' and 'See I was right'. You know the definition of long-term, you are implementing it!

As for Haydos being vindictive, I fail to see where he is being vindictive to Beckford. I can see where he might well be throwing an insult to those who don't understand the definition of short-term and long-term, especially in the context of football, and I am not having a go at him, as I agree with what he's saying.

What I won't agree with is duplicity. People who say Beckford is shit at the start of the season, and then hold their hands up and say they have been proven wrong, I can agree with. Those who say he's shit, and still shit with, that's fine, we can agree to disagree or discuss it.

over and out...the last of what I've got to say on the matter (but probably not eh?)

[Guest Col city fan]

Hahahahahaha! I'm balanced about Beckford. Your pattern of posting is remarkable, and you are unlikely to hold your hands up to say that you haven't been on a damage limitation exercise, I appreciate that, why would you? We've all been there at some point in our busy lives.

You post because people reply to you....hmmm. Where's that quote you came up with the other day?

You did exactly what you did with Sven, all in the hope that you'd be justified in your opinion, let's call it a negative marketing exercise. All in the hope that if you say something long and loud enough, as many times as possible, that people will come around to your way of thinking. How does this effect a player. Not directly. I doubt Beckford reads the forum, but some players do. But lots of fans do read this and other forums. Consistant negativity from the outset of this season specifically about Sven eventually got him ousted. Whether or not I agree with this or not it's irrelevant, it seems to me to be a fact, so you might say your participation in that particular campaign was a success.

What irritates me about your approach is your duplicity, and pretending that all long your were giving them a chance, that you knew all along (in Beckford's case) that they would be a potentially a success. No one will go back through your posts (As there are far too fooking many) to the start of the season, as you physically can't do so, so you can't be quoted. But I am not alone in remembering the tone, the stance and angle you took on a variety of two issues (over and over again). Again I don't expect you to admit this, as it's easy to point out your recent posts where you pick particularly generalised terms and sit on fence-isms, and 'I knew it all along' and 'See I was right'. You know the definition of long-term, you are implementing it!

As for Haydos being vindictive, I fail to see where he is being vindictive to Beckford. I can see where he might well be throwing an insult to those who don't understand the definition of short-term and long-term, especially in the context of football, and I am not having a go at him, as I agree with what he's saying.

What I won't agree with is duplicity. People who say Beckford is shit at the start of the season, and then hold their hands up and say they have been proven wrong, I can agree with. Those who say he's shit, and still shit with, that's fine, we can agree to disagree or discuss it.

over and out...the last of what I've got to say on the matter (but probably not eh?)

You're not reading..

I didn't say Haydos is vindictive. His posts IMO are generally worth reading.

I said the OP of the 'Beckford' thread. This isnt the Beckford thread. Although you seem to be wanting to make it into that?

For the last time.... Beckford has come on leaps and bounds. In terms of his goal scoring. But I still believe he is lacking in first touch and in his ability to defend from the front ie. to keep the ball well emough when we are under pressure. Pop over to some of the other threads this morning and you will see that some people are starting to concur about our inability to defend as a team. THAT'S my major gripe about Jermaine, and not only him either.

Anyway, you continue with your quest to try to ridicule what I'm saying. I'm a big lad and can take it on the chin.

[davieG]

Short fooking termism I've been waiting 50 fooking years to win the FA Cup!

Get with it Pearson!

[Guest Col city fan]

Short fooking termism I've been waiting 50 fooking years to win the FA Cup!

Get with it Pearson!

And I've been waiting ages to get back to another play off final!

Yeah.. Get with it Pearson...

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Some good posts on here, Haydos, Col city fan, Finners etc etc, lets be honest we are all saying roughly the same thing as the original post. Over reactions to bad results are to be expected as people are disappointed, last night being a prime example. Overall as fans we are willing to give the team enough time, yes there are a few teenagers on this forum who naturally go way over the top with over blown reactions either way but there are also several very sensible slightly maturer fans who post on here with sensible thoughtful and largely fact based pearls of wisdom (clearly im not one )

[davieG]

People are only going over the top because it's a forum so they can show their excitement / disappointment but it's not as if that makes them stop going to games or continuing to support the team in any way they can.

Think of it like you've just hit your thumb with a hammer, it bloody hurts (I've done it loads of times)!

[Saxondale]

I suppose all I am asking is people use this example of Beckford's on/off form as a guide for LCFC. We will play well sometimes, we won't at others. But please, for the love of god, stop coming out with shit like 'we're a pile of wank, we're always going to be shit with this twat in charge' after one poor result, which we then turn around completely the following Tuesday. Or 'Ha, fvck everyone, Nigel is the king' after a 2-1 win.

You're entitled to your opinions so do what you will but I implore you to bear with the team. Please, start thinking about the inevitably reactionary comments you're about to make, there's too many of them already. Peace.

I see your point and I understand your frustration, but the posters who make reactionary comments about how shit we are after we lose are angry, upset and disappointed. They'll still turn up and support the team the next week and the week after and the week after that. Yes, people's opinions get a bit polarised on here, but following the football club that you love generates a lot of emotions.

This is a football fans' forum and not a record of fact. If somebody posts something a bit hasty or reactionary, it doesn't matter - it's not recorded in Hansard.

Nobody on here is correct. Some people's observations may be more astute or balanced than others', but that doesn't give them any more right to post.

If you think somebody has posted something hasty, reactionary and ill-balanced, then let them know. But I think trying to implore people not to post in the first place is slightly misguided and, dare I say it, arrogant.

To be fair, I would class your posts as some of the more balanced and well-considered on the forum - but I think it's down to each individual to pass their own judgement and choose to respond how they see fit to whatever is posted by whoever.

[Haydos]

To be fair, I would class your posts as some of the more balanced and well-considered on the forum - but I think it's down to each individual to pass their own judgement and choose to respond how they see fit to whatever is posted by whoever.

Maybe a touch arrogant Wasn't meant to be.

I like discussion, that's all. And talking about the game. The majority of the post <insert team here> threads and threads following a game seem to be filled with repetitive/over the top/overly harsh/dismissive/negative/sulky posts.

In essence I kind of get that that's what you're saying; that that's what they're there for, but it just gets frustrating when there's no thought provoking or objective topics to discus. All it ends up being is either '<player that performed poorly> is shit' or a negative view that the poster writes as if they are taking weeks and weeks into perspective, but when you read it you realise they are basically reacting to the match that has just finished and coincidentally they didn't feel this way after we won our last game.