Animal rights

[Captain...]

I appreciate your input and your approach to hunting is very interesting, so im not trying to be a cvnt or anything.. more im trying to understand. How do you enjoy killing something?

It's like any sport, you set yourself a target, and when you achieve it you feel good, there are always other aspects to it, either the solitude if you do it on your own, or the companionship if you do it in a group. It is not the killing in itself that is enjoyable, but more the meeting of a pre set goal.

For example fishermen get the same enjoyment with catch and release as taking it home and cooking it, the only difference is they don't have anything to eat afterwards.

[Rincewind]

Wouldn't have thought it'll be the same for a brocli hunt.

Althogh you do plant seeds watch it grow from a small stork to full grown, then pull it from its roots, cut the head off, stick it into a pan of boiling water and finally serve it up with their garden neighbours potatoes, carrots and peas,

[OzFox]

It's like any sport, you set yourself a target, and when you achieve it you feel good, there are always other aspects to it, either the solitude if you do it on your own, or the companionship if you do it in a group. It is not the killing in itself that is enjoyable, but more the meeting of a pre set goal.

For example fishermen get the same enjoyment with catch and release as taking it home and cooking it, the only difference is they don't have anything to eat afterwards.

I can think of better ways to get kicks than causing pain and suffering to an animal. Even catch and release leaves the fish mangled half the time.

[Captain...]

Wouldn't have thought it'll be the same for a brocli hunt.

Althogh you do plant seeds watch it grow from a small stork to full grown, then pull it from its roots, cut the head off, stick it into a pan of boiling water and finally serve it up with their garden neighbours potatoes, carrots and peas,

Exactly, same sense of achievement, different way of going about it, gardening, like hunting or writing is all about wanting to achieve something, and doing it, it is just different people want to/enjoy achieving different things.

Edited 18 July 2012 by Captain Shrapnel

[Captain...]

I can think of better ways to get kicks than causing pain and suffering to an animal. Even catch and release leaves the fish mangled half the time.

Good for you, obviously Cambridge Fox and MattP can't, so how do you get your kicks?

[OzFox]

Good for you, obviously Cambridge Fox and MattP can't, so how do you get your kicks?

watching Leicester? That way I'm not harming anything except myself.

[ozleicester]

It's like any sport, you set yourself a target, and when you achieve it you feel good, there are always other aspects to it, either the solitude if you do it on your own, or the companionship if you do it in a group. It is not the killing in itself that is enjoyable, but more the meeting of a pre set goal.

For example fishermen get the same enjoyment with catch and release as taking it home and cooking it, the only difference is they don't have anything to eat afterwards.

I just cannot get my head around this, i understand target setting and overcoming challenges, but this is taking the life of an innocent creature.

Why not clay shooting?.... target shooting? why would there be any enjoyment is killing?

[Captain...]

I just cannot get my head around this, i understand target setting and overcoming challenges, but this is taking the life of an innocent creature.

Why not clay shooting?.... target shooting? why would there be any enjoyment is killing?

I would imagine because it is much harder than clay pigeon shooting, with clay pigeons you know the trajectory, the start point the speed, and they are not going to fly off in a random direction.

It is man versus nature, whether it is shooting birds, which is a test of your skill and accuracy, or tracking moose for hours before you are close enough to kill it, it is real, it is unpredictable and it is a challenge.

[OzFox]

I would imagine because it is much harder than clay pigeon shooting, with clay pigeons you know the trajectory, the start point the speed, and they are not going to fly off in a random direction.

It is man versus nature, whether it is shooting birds, which is a test of your skill and accuracy, or tracking moose for hours before you are close enough to kill it, it is real, it is unpredictable and it is a challenge.

Most birds are shot with a shotgun. A big spray of pellets. Not much of a challenge there. Conservative estimates say at least as many birds are wounded as are killed.

As for moose, half of them are on the roads and about as challenging to shoot as a cow.

Reminds me of those so called "sportsmen' in America, who set baited traps and wait for the bear to turn up before picking it off with a high powered rifle.. All very challenging.

Edited 18 July 2012 by OzFox

[Captain...]

Most birds are shot with a shotgun. A big spray of pellets. Not much of a challenge there. Conservative estimates say at least as many birds are wounded as are killed.

It is no challenge and yet at least as many are wounded as killed? That sounds like fairly short odds.

As for moose, half of them are on the roads and about as challenging to shoot as a cow.

Nope.

Reminds me of those so called "sportsmen' in America, who set baited traps and wait for the bear to turn up before picking it off with a high powered rifle.. All very challenging.

What does? something completely different?

You make no sense try again.

[Guest]

So in summary:

Matt is not a pleasant phucker.

[OzFox]

It is no challenge and yet at least as many are wounded as killed? That sounds like fairly short odds.

Nope.

What does? something completely different?

You make no sense try again.

Your "man vs nature" bullshit is just that. Bullshit. There's nothing challenging about blasting wildlife with modern weapons. Surely you can understand that?

[Guest]

Your "man vs nature" bullshit is just that. Bullshit. There's nothing challenging about blasting wildlife with modern weapons. Surely you can understand that?

He should try the sling.

[OzFox]

He should try the sling.

I wish they all would. Even up the odds a bit. Then we'd see some fireworks.

[Captain...]

Your "man vs nature" bullshit is just that. Bullshit. There's nothing challenging about blasting wildlife with modern weapons. Surely you can understand that?

In a way, but in the example of moose hunting, modern weapons make it much easier to get a clean kill, and in the case of moose hunting, it is about population control so the quick kill is important otherwise a wounded moose my run off and die, and then you won't have accurate population figures. Is it wrong that people enjoy the hunt, the tracking of the moose for hours, sometimes days the kill is necessary because if the population gets out of control they can destroy natural habitats for other wildlife.

Bird hunting is more for sport and is more indiscriminate, and yes using a shot gun is cheating a little, but that doesn't make it easy.

[purpleronnie]

And anyone who swims with dolphins wants their head checked.....its cruel and how its become one of those things you 'have to do' is beyond me.

[Captain...]

And anyone who swims with dolphins wants their head checked.....its cruel and how its become one of those things you 'have to do' is beyond me.

Why is it cruel?

What if the dolphin swims with me, as one did once while I was surfing, now that was cool.

[purpleronnie]

Why is it cruel?

What if the dolphin swims with me, as one did once while I was surfing, now that was cool.

I meant the ones in captivity who swim with tourists.

[OzFox]

In a way, but in the example of moose hunting, modern weapons make it much easier to get a clean kill, and in the case of moose hunting, it is about population control so the quick kill is important otherwise a wounded moose my run off and die, and then you won't have accurate population figures. Is it wrong that people enjoy the hunt, the tracking of the moose for hours, sometimes days the kill is necessary because if the population gets out of control they can destroy natural habitats for other wildlife.

Bird hunting is more for sport and is more indiscriminate, and yes using a shot gun is cheating a little, but that doesn't make it easy.

"Control" of moose/deer/elk is necessary partly because they have ever shrinking habitats, thanks to our need for roads, houses, shopping malls etc

It's also necessary because we've killed the predators that kept them down naturally. In parts of America, they re-introduced the wolf. The wolves picked off the elk and deer, ecosystems were thriving again but the poor old hunters...sorry "sportsmen"...weren't happy because they didn't have enough things to shoot at. Their solution was to shoot the wolves, in the hope that next season they'll have more game to shoot. Similar in Sweden I believe, even though they're down to a couple of hundred wolves.

[Reynard Bleu]

Shooting is much less fun when your target shoots back and you know that its you they are trying to kill.

[OzFox]

Man vs Nature...with the aid of donuts.

OKANOGAN, Wash. — Authorities say a Washington man has pleaded guilty to using doughnuts and food scraps to draw bears close to his cabin so he and others could shoot them.

State Fish and Wildlife Officer Dan Christensen tells KING-TV that James Erickson and his family members and friends would lure the bears in, then shoot them from a chair off the back of the cabin near Winthrop.

The 52-year-old Erickson pleaded guilty Friday to bear baiting and was given a sentence that included a $12,000 fine, 20 days of house arrest, loss of hunting privileges for five years and six days in jail. As part of the deal, charges against others were dropped.

[Captain...]

"Control" of moose/deer/elk is necessary partly because they have ever shrinking habitats, thanks to our need for roads, houses, shopping malls etc

It's also necessary because we've killed the predators that kept them down naturally. In parts of America, they re-introduced the wolf. The wolves picked off the elk and deer, ecosystems were thriving again but the poor old hunters...sorry "sportsmen"...weren't happy because they didn't have enough things to shoot at. Their solution was to shoot the wolves, in the hope that next season they'll have more game to shoot. Similar in Sweden I believe, even though they're down to a couple of hundred wolves.

I thought they killed the wolves because they were attacking and killing their cattle, not so they would have more stuff to shoot, but to protect their livelihood, I guess the BBC lied to me then.

As for the man bear baiting, I don't approve of that, it is just retarded.

While you are here, and as the other Aussie ignored my question last time.

What do you think about Cane toads and what the problems they have caused in Australia? Do you do your civic duty and kill any you find?

[Trav Le Bleu]

I've remembered my profound question!

Oz, how do you feel about pets? Do you have or have had any? Because if we're talking about animal rights, then surely the keeping of pets is just enslavement?

I know a fair few vegetarians who are vegetarians because they view eating meat as "cruel", and often they have 3 or 4 pets. They don't see that removing the animal from it's natural environment and forcing it to live with them as "cruel".

You have often mentioned that the animals we eat don't have a choice, but pretty much all pets, if not confined or put on a leash, will make a bid for freedom, with the exception of properly trained dogs who view their family as their pack.

I think the keeping of pets is cruel (though I've had plenty as a child) with the exception of dogs as mentioned above, but I eat meat - at least that's over and done with quickly; it's not life imprisonment.

Please tell me you own pets!

[Guest]

I have dogs and cats and chickens. The cats and chickens come and go as they please. The cats particularly like to be around for food and dryness etc...

[Trav Le Bleu]

I have dogs and cats and chickens. The cats and chickens come and go as they please. The cats particularly like to be around for food and dryness etc...

But not for you - don't ever make the mistake of beleiving that.