Animal rights

[Darkon84]

No..no we dont HAVE to accept it, Unless we are little more than sheep incapable of independent thought and decision - if that is you though..just watch out, its not a big step from killing stupid animals, to killing stupid (human) animals.

Perhaps you could have worded that better, or perhaps you're just being a dick towards me. Either way, unless you can show me evidence of how anything you have ever done and the way you lead your life, avoiding leather and feeding vegetarian cats, is capable of changing US law which allows people to go out and have open hunting season or barbaric culling to keep population numbers down, Im afraid you have to accept it too. Ive done stuff for charity, given money, raised money, raised awareness before, but as just one man, or as a group, change cannot be implemented, and in this life I cannot afford more time, effort, money, or political clout to do more.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post and mine seems bitchy. If I interpreted it correctly, then please enlighten me as to how you have single handedly changed the world, sir.

[ozleicester]

Perhaps you could have worded that better, or perhaps you're just being a dick towards me. Either way, unless you can show me evidence of how anything you have ever done and the way you lead your life, avoiding leather and feeding vegetarian cats, is capable of changing US law which allows people to go out and have open hunting season or barbaric culling to keep population numbers down, Im afraid you have to accept it too. Ive done stuff for charity, given money, raised money, raised awareness before, but as just one man, or as a group, change cannot be implemented, and in this life I cannot afford more time, effort, money, or political clout to do more.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post and mine seems bitchy. If I interpreted it correctly, then please enlighten me as to how you have single handedly changed the world, sir.

Im certainly not having a go at you.. but i am definitly am having a go about just accepting the world as it is.

Congrats on your charity work or whatever... i assume you felt that was of some benefit and helped change things.

and no.. i neither need, nor wish, to show you evidence of what i have done.

i am simply saying if you think you cant make a difference, you are probably right.

I feel differently.

[Darkon84]

Im certainly not having a go at you.. but i am definitly am having a go about just accepting the world as it is.

Congrats on your charity work or whatever... i assume you felt that was of some benefit and helped change things.

and no.. i neither need, nor wish, to show you evidence of what i have done.

i am simply saying if you think you cant make a difference, you are probably right.

I feel differently.

Sorry for kinda flying off the handle there at you then, was a bit ratty this morning. Im a little embaressed now, eek.

Though I still have to ask, if you are having a go at people that just accept things as they are, what do you suggest to implement a serious change?

I was happy with the charity things that I did, and I hope, at least that it all helped in one way or another, though Im unable to tell you exactly in what way it was beneficial, or who/what to.

Ignore what I was saying about providing evidence etc, I was in a strop and was thinking you were being preachy, so was merely turning the table etc.

Either way, sorry for snapping, its great if you still do things to raise money, raise awareness or whatever, and if you can genuinely make a difference, kudos to you. As for me though, I simply cannont afford the time, or money etc to do more than I have, and I have to leave that to the people that seriously dedicate their lives to it. I hope you continue and can implement a change in one way or another.

Edited 20 July 2012 by Darkon84

[ozleicester]

Sorry for kinda flying off the handle there at you then, was a bit ratty this morning. Im a little embaressed now, eek.

Though I still have to ask, if you are having a go at people that just accept things as they are, what do you suggest to implement a serious change?

I was happy with the charity things that I did, and I hope, at least that it all helped in one way or another, though Im unable to tell you exactly in what way it was beneficial, or who/what to.

Ignore what I was saying about providing evidence etc, I was in a strop and was thinking you were being preachy, so was merely turning the table etc.

Either way, sorry for snapping, its great if you still do things to raise money, raise awareness or whatever, and if you can genuinely make a difference, kudos to you. As for me though, I simply cannont afford the time, or money etc to do more than I have, and I have to leave that to the people that seriously dedicate their lives to it. I hope you continue and can implement a change in one way or another.

Cheers All good... in my world.. every positive thing, does good

[Rincewind]

Flys, bugs cockroaches and ants get it if they venture inside my living space. Out side they can do what they want.

[ozleicester]

Flys, bugs cockroaches and ants get it if they venture inside my living space. Out side they can do what they want.

Flys, bugs, insects... they were there first.. you bloody immigrants coming in and changing things

[Trav Le Bleu]

I "own" a cat he is 14 years old, balding and has 3 teeth, he was saved from an animal shelter. i dont own him, he allows me to feed and provide him with warmth and shelter. He does not leave the house as even as a simple old man he is still capable of threatening the native wildlife, so he sits in the window and dreams.

Your next question wuill undoubtably be what do we feed him... he is mostly vegetarian with 5 of his seven days being vegetable based, after his previous 10 or so years before we got him i imagine to completely deny him meat would be unfair and so we have progressed him through to this point over the 3 years weve had him.

Nope, it's, "Why have you denied him his liberty?" It does my head in, (and I get this time and time again when making deliveries) people who won't let the cat out (No, that's NOT a euphamism! ). Why? Let the cat out, it will be fine, it's a CAT! Looking after themselves is the whole essence of catness. It's what they do best! A cat without it's liberty is just a rather pathetic dog with superiority issues. No cat wants to be indoors. Let him free so that he might mix with his own kind, sing feline melodies amongst the bins, prove to you that he has got some small measure of gratitude by leaving you little presents every other day at the back door and crapping where the hell he likes and not in a stinky sandbox.

Remove his chains, Oz. Yes, he's old and might die, but at least he will die a true cat and not somekind of tempermental comfort blanket.

FREE THE PERTH ONE!

[Charl91]

Nope, it's, "Why have you denied him his liberty?" It does my head in, (and I get this time and time again when making deliveries) people who won't let the cat out (No, that's NOT a euphamism! ). Why? Let the cat out, it will be fine, it's a CAT! Looking after themselves is the whole essence of catness. It's what they do best! A cat without it's liberty is just a rather pathetic dog with superiority issues. No cat wants to be indoors. Let him free so that he might mix with his own kind, sing feline melodies amongst the bins, prove to you that he has got some small measure of gratitude by leaving you little presents every other day at the back door and crapping where the hell he likes and not in a stinky sandbox.

Remove his chains, Oz. Yes, he's old and might die, but at least he will die a true cat and not somekind of tempermental comfort blanket.

FREE THE PERTH ONE!

Yeah, cats aren't house pets, they're pretty street-wise, as far as animals go.

[ozleicester]

Nope, it's, "Why have you denied him his liberty?" It does my head in, (and I get this time and time again when making deliveries) people who won't let the cat out (No, that's NOT a euphamism! ). Why? Let the cat out, it will be fine, it's a CAT! Looking after themselves is the whole essence of catness. It's what they do best! A cat without it's liberty is just a rather pathetic dog with superiority issues. No cat wants to be indoors. Let him free so that he might mix with his own kind, sing feline melodies amongst the bins, prove to you that he has got some small measure of gratitude by leaving you little presents every other day at the back door and crapping where the hell he likes and not in a stinky sandbox.

Remove his chains, Oz. Yes, he's old and might die, but at least he will die a true cat and not somekind of tempermental comfort blanket.

FREE THE PERTH ONE!

its not the cats health i am protecting, ours isnt let out because even though he is an aged and toothless old crone, he is still capable of inflicting death on any number of innocent passing birds and native fauna. He is perfectly happy to be indoors, has access to a small run that allows him fresh air and sunlight etc.

Hah - FREE THE PERTH ONE! ... bloody criminals these days, living the good life, sleeping 20 hours a day, waking only to be fed, colour TVs....living in luxury.... in my day.....

Yeah, cats aren't house pets, they're pretty street-wise, as far as animals go.

precisely why he is kept inside, we live in an area that has a bird/wildlife preserve nearby. Also very importantly, Feline AIDS is now extremely common and outdoor cats are at great risk.

[Jaspa]

its not the cats health i am protecting, ours isnt let out because even though he is an aged and toothless old crone, he is still capable of inflicting death on any number of innocent passing birds and native fauna. He is perfectly happy to be indoors, has access to a small run that allows him fresh air and sunlight etc.

Hah - FREE THE PERTH ONE! ... bloody criminals these days, living the good life, sleeping 20 hours a day, waking only to be fed, colour TVs....living in luxury.... in my day.....

precisely why he is kept inside, we live in an area that has a bird/wildlife preserve nearby. Also very importantly, Feline AIDS is now extremely common and outdoor cats are at great risk.

You shouldnt have to worry about your cat getting AIDS when hes already that old

I hope if you get another cat in future thats fully capable of looking after itself, you dont keep it penned up on its own staring out a window and eating carrots. Let the rascal out, it'l come back if it likes you and you feed it well.

If your worried about it munching on birds then get it a collar with a bell on, and any bird that would get caught would deserve it for not getting away from something that cant even fly with bloody bells on it. Survival of the non-retarded

If your worried about cats that eat wildlife, then fly over to Africa and try and see if any starving Cheetahs want to have some Tomato soup with Celery Sticks and Goji berries, maybe they'l teach you 1 or 2 things about eating meat

[OzFox]

Not sure putting a bell on cat is that effective.

There's been a few cat culls here in Australia as they are considered a danger to native wildlife. Australia has the worst mammal extinction record in the world (27 at last count) so they have been trying to do something about it.

In this cull they got one tabby and er, a lot of foxes.

"Australian animal lovers are outraged at an Outback town's plan to hold a Christmas "pig and pussy hunt", in which wild boar and feral cats will be trapped, shot, knifed, dynamited or run over.

Up to 100 hunters from all over Australia are converging on the gold mining town of Pine Creek, in the Northern Territory, to take part in the hunt, which starts at dawn on Boxing Day.

Organisers say the aim is to wipe out as many wild pigs and cats as possible. Both species are blamed for killing millions of Australian native animals a year, including endangered mammals, lizards, snakes and birds"

Edited 24 July 2012 by OzFox

[Zingari]

I've been on a few pussy porking expeditions and I didn't have much luck either .

[OzFox]

I've been on a few pussy porking expeditions and I didn't have much luck either .

Could be worse. You could have been neutered.

[ozleicester]

Scientists Sew Up Kittens’ Eyes In Shocking Experiment

• by Judy Molland
  
• July 25, 2012
  
• 8:58 pm
  

24 commens E-Mail

More than 30 kittens were used in tests funded by British taxpayers to find out how the brain responds to sensory deprivation. The tests took place at the University of Cardiff, in Wales. Specifically, scientists were sewing up kittens’ eyes for a shocking experiment.

All of the kittens were put down after the study. Five had their eyes sewn closed for up to a week.

Twenty-six new-born kittens were raised in darkness for up to 12 weeks.

As reported in The Daily Mirror, Comedian Ricky Gervais led the fury.

He said: “I am appalled that kittens are being deprived of sight by having their eyelids sewn shut.

“I thought sickening experiments like these were a thing of the past.â€

The British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection’s Michelle Thew added: “This is unacceptable cruel research. “The public will be shocked to learn of publicly-funded experiments where kittens have been subjected to this.â€

Meanwhile, researchers insist the experiments at Cardiff University are humane and took place in a bid to find a cure for lazy eye in children, which can lead to blindness. As someone who has suffered from lazy eye since birth, I can assure everyone that I yearned for a cure from this syndrome, but I would prefer to keep my lazy eye rather than know that kittens’ eyes were being sewn together.

The University of Cardiff defended the experiment, which ended in 2010.

However, Ricky Gervais, The Office creator told The Mirror, “I am appalled that kittens are being deprived of sight by having their eyelids sewn shut. I thought sickening experiments like these were a thing of the past.â€

A statement from The University reads,

“Cardiff University rejects the accusation this experiment is cruel or unnecessary. It is impossible to use any other kind of ­technique for this study.

“The work was approved by both the University’s ethical review process and the Home Office Animals in Science Regulation Unit as part of the licensing process.â€

Dominic Sullivan, Cats Protection’s Director of Legal Services, said: “We are not sure why Cardiff University used cats in this case. “The law is quite clear, a licence cannot be granted by the Home Office to use cats in scientific experiments unless animals of no other species are suitable for the purpose of the programme. This might be the case in, say, developing a cat vaccine.

!If you believe that these experiments are beyond outrageous, please sign our petition telling Cardiff University in Wales to stop conducting frivolous and sadistic experiments on animals

Read more:

http://www.care2.com/causes/scientists-sew-up-kittens-eyes-in-shocking-experiment.html#ixzz21i5uJ2cr

[Charl91]

That's pretty shocking. The kind of experimentation that I hate.

[Guest]

I've been on a few pussy porking expeditions and I didn't have much luck either .

pussy p**king. Surely.

[Smudge]

I've been on a few pussy porking expeditions and I didn't have much luck either .

[ozleicester]

What i hear...

[Jaspa]

Oh great

Comparing a natural human trait of thousands of years and putting it next to Nazis, The KKK and Rapists

Why do some Vegans come across as so corrosive and smug ?

You really dont do yourselves any favours with stuff like that

[ozleicester]

Oh great

Comparing a natural human trait of thousands of years and putting it next to Nazis, The KKK and Rapists

Why do some Vegans come across as so corrosive and smug ?

You really dont do yourselves any favours with stuff like that

... That is exactly what i am doing..I think youve perhaps missed the point.

In the 1700's some people believed that whites were naturally more evolved and that it was natural for them to treat blacks like...well, like animals.

In the 1930's some people believed that jews were naturally of less value...and that it was natural for them to treat Jews like...well, like animals.

Even to this day (you can see it in the "women as managers" and players threads on this very forum) some people believe that women are not the equal of men and therefore its fine to treat them like.... well i think you know.

As for corrosive and smug...

Yes, holding a different opinion can often be considered corrosive, but you are entitled to your own so dont sweat it.

As for smug, that probably says a little more about you, than it does about (sweeping generalisation) "vegans". I dont believe there is anything smug in the above picture. just a reasonable (and i thought slightly humorous) depiction of the how i see animals and there current lack of rights.

As for doing "ourselves" favours... im not sure what favour im am trying to gain, so you are probably right.

[Rincewind]

I did a food hygiene in catering course last week and the lecturer said he doesn't eat meat. He had nothing against it. Said he cooks for his wife and other people. But he said he workrd in a slaughterhouse for a while and after a few months of seeing young animals throats cut it put him off a little. He says he prefers to do the cooking because he knows the food is germ free. Especially after his wife strokes or kisses the dogs when preparing.

Anyway I doubt I will stop eating meat now. I can eat vegtable curries and pastas but thats about it. I'm not a lover of beans which I assume is a big part of vefatarian cooking. I just think of vegtables as a side dish.

[ozleicester]

I did a food hygiene in catering course last week and the lecturer said he doesn't eat meat. He had nothing against it. Said he cooks for his wife and other people. But he said he workrd in a slaughterhouse for a while and after a few months of seeing young animals throats cut it put him off a little. He says he prefers to do the cooking because he knows the food is germ free. Especially after his wife strokes or kisses the dogs when preparing.

Anyway I doubt I will stop eating meat now. I can eat vegtable curries and pastas but thats about it. I'm not a lover of beans which I assume is a big part of vefatarian cooking. I just think of vegtables as a side dish.

I think there is a quote attributed to Linda McCartney i think, which goes something like.. "If slaughterhouse walls were made of glass we would all be vegetarian".

The videos and reports i have seen and heard are horrific and to be honest i feel enormously for the people who have to work in those places.

I was the same about veggies originally for the first 30+ years of my life i avoided them and preferred to be considered a meatatearian, but what the hey, things change. Now Veggies make up my entire food intake, but im not a "foodie" so im quite happy with nicely cooked rices and Veg or Quorn or allsorts of other foods that i wouldnt have contemplated a few years ago.

[Babylon]

In the 1700's some people believed that whites were naturally more evolved and that it was natural for them to treat blacks like...well, like animals.

In the 1930's some people believed that jews were naturally of less value...and that it was natural for them to treat Jews like...well, like animals.

Perhaps you should also campaign so that cows and chickens can also have voting rights, sit on the same buses, use the same toilets and eat in the same (vegan) restaurants?

I think there is a quote attributed to Linda McCartney i think, which goes something like.. "If slaughterhouse walls were made of glass we would all be vegetarian".

Which is obviously nonsense because it's been broadcast on tv a hundred times.

[Captain...]

OzLeicester is right in that one day we will probably look back and think we were barbaric for eating meat...

...but I think that will not come from a love of animals, but more likely the idea that animals are disease ridden, unhygenic, resource consuming pests, all food will be synthesised directly from the sun's energy and wild animals will be wiped off the planet and replaced with robotic pets. The only real animals will be in Zoos and laboratories.

Then will you be happy Oz?

[ozleicester]

Perhaps you should also campaign so that cows and chickens can also have voting rights, sit on the same buses, use the same toilets and eat in the same (vegan) restaurants?

Which is obviously nonsense because it's been broadcast on tv a hundred times.

Excellent rebuttal, try your best to ignore the facts and make an irrelevant comment, still it usually works for you, go with it.

Ok So most metaphors dont bear close examination.

OzLeicester is right in that one day we will probably look back and think we were barbaric for eating meat...

...but I think that will not come from a love of animals, but more likely the idea that animals are disease ridden, unhygenic, resource consuming pests, all food will be synthesised directly from the sun's energy and wild animals will be wiped off the planet and replaced with robotic pets. The only real animals will be in Zoos and laboratories.

Then will you be happy Oz?

Yahhoo.... happy days are here again, those little robotic dog things from china..and tamagochi's are the future