Animal rights

[Captain...]

Humans are animals.

And we quite happily kill them too if it is to our benefit.

[Charl91]

Technically yes, but not when we're referring to animal rights.

Ok then, I'll phrase it differently - does the predator give a shit about how it's prey dies in nature? No, it'd be a crap hunter otherwise. No different here, to get all soppy about how it's killed is perplexing, no matter how you do it, the end result is a dead animal.

Yet if you argued that it didn't matter how people in Texas recieved the death penalty, because either way you end up with a dead human, then people would think you were crazy. As a race of people that (on the whole) have a conscience, I'd like to think we could avoid unneccessary suffering/pain on any living creature when possible.

And we quite happily kill them too if it is to our benefit.

Maybe, but there's more outrage when one human goes missing then an entire generation of animals being inhumanely treated/killed.

Edited 17 July 2012 by Charl91

[The Doctor]

Yet if you argued that it didn't matter how people in Texas recieved the death penalty, because either way you end up with a dead human, then people would think you were crazy. As a race of people that (on the whole) have a conscience, I'd like to think we could avoid unneccessary suffering/pain on any living creature when possible.

Difference being you don't kill a person to eat them, and in this case the humane methods are usually quickest - with foodstock, lethal injections are hardly an option, gas chambers and firing squads impractical, hanging down right impossible and we're left with electrocution - fucking painful, but also how we deal with animals anyway. I'm not saying we should start clubbing pigs to death to make bacon butties, just that ethics in a predator-prey relationship is nonsensical.

If you actually care about how the animals are treated, be a vegan, but don't whine about how they're being killed "inhumanely" and ignore the living conditions they're exposed to and the amount of shit we feed them to produce enough good-quality meat off of each animal.

[Captain...]

Maybe, but there's more outrage when one human goes missing then an entire generation of animals being inhumanely treated/killed.

Depends on the human being really if it's a little brown boy in a sandy part of the world, then nobody don't give a crap. Whereas if it is a middle class teen at a stone roses concert then the whole country goes into meltdown.

[Guest MattP]

Just thought I'd mention I'm going pheasant shooting on Saturday morning.

[Captain...]

Just thought I'd mention I'm going pheasant shooting on Saturday morning.

Do you eat them after?

[Guest MattP]

Not usually, my friend has a butcher who buys them off him.

[Charl91]

Difference being you don't kill a person to eat them, and in this case the humane methods are usually quickest - with foodstock, lethal injections are hardly an option, gas chambers and firing squads impractical, hanging down right impossible and we're left with electrocution - ****ing painful, but also how we deal with animals anyway. I'm not saying we should start clubbing pigs to death to make bacon butties, just that ethics in a predator-prey relationship is nonsensical.

If you actually care about how the animals are treated, be a vegan, but don't whine about how they're being killed "inhumanely" and ignore the living conditions they're exposed to and the amount of shit we feed them to produce enough good-quality meat off of each animal.

As I'v said before (in this thread I believe), I haven't "ignored the living conditions", it's the living conditions which I disagree with in particular, much more so than the method of execution. You don't have to become vegan to make sure the animals you've eaten weren't treated like shit during their lifetime.

Edited 17 July 2012 by Charl91

[OzFox]

Wasn't that bungle - or was that the bear that used to make suggestive comments on kids programmes.

Bungle caught fire once in the TV studio. Could have been very nasty.

[Charl91]

Depends on the human being really if it's a little brown boy in a sandy part of the world, then nobody don't give a crap. Whereas if it is a middle class teen at a stone roses concert then the whole country goes into meltdown.

Yeah, I agree, but that's a different issue. On a seperate note, my girlfriend knows/knew that person I think, sad really.

[Guest MattP]

Depends on the human being really if it's a little brown boy in a sandy part of the world, then nobody don't give a crap. Whereas if it is a middle class teen at a stone roses concert then the whole country goes into meltdown.

Surely that's because the news is local though?, I don't see the point in a mass public newstory spread across the UK of a little boy who got lost in Mogadishu and vice versa.

I doubt many people in Mexico know who Maddy McCann is.

Edited 17 July 2012 by MattP

[OzFox]

Technically yes, but not when we're referring to animal rights.

Ok then, I'll phrase it differently - does the predator give a shit about how it's prey dies in nature? No, it'd be a crap hunter otherwise. No different here, to get all soppy about how it's killed is perplexing, no matter how you do it, the end result is a dead animal.

It's hardly "getting soppy". It's showing a bit of compassion and common decency. We're supposedly more intelligent, remember? So why not behave that way?

These days we kill on an industrial scale to feed our huge population. The fact that we often do it so brutally is because it's convenient and profitable.

[ozleicester]

Just thought I'd mention I'm going pheasant shooting on Saturday morning.

Congratulations and thanks for letting us know, I hope you get the result you are looking for and your Penis does grow.

Al is throwing some very interesting questions/observations into the mix. Which i think go to the bottom line, if we are killing for our pleasure (eg eating) is there such a thing as humane?

edit .. mind you... thats not to say i agree with what he is saying

Edited 18 July 2012 by ozleicester

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Just thought I'd mention I'm going pheasant shooting on Saturday morning.

Don't come this way/ A couple pheasants come into our garden most mornings for their breakfast of seed and corn.

[ozleicester]

Don't come this way/ A couple pheasants come into our garden most mornings for their breakfast of seed and corn.

Just grab your gun...if a predator comes on to your property, i think you can just shoot them

[OzFox]

Just thought I'd mention I'm going pheasant shooting on Saturday morning.

Out of interest, how many do you kill outright? A few months ago I watched a bunch of toffs blasting away in Oxfordshire (Pheasant Hill ironically). Some of the birds were clearly hit but still made it to the treeline, where (presumably) they died slowly. I find it really weird that anyone could get enjoyment out of that.

[Rincewind]

Wish I had a gun this morning. Some sqrking bird on my roof above my bedroom started before 6am. It is hard to explain the noise it/they were making. No isea what type it is but i reckon a family nest there yearly. Sometimes they sound like a football rattle. Thought it was gone 8 but looked at the clock when getting dressed and it was 7am. The birds have shut up now.

I remember my brother saying to me once, that if you eat meat you should be prepared to kill the animal it came from. I suppose that is true. How many would be so eager if they had to slit a chicen's throat, pluck it then cook and eat it? Not sure if I'd fancy it but I would expect you'd become immune to it after a few times.

[Captain...]

Not usually, my friend has a butcher who buys them off him.

Well they get eaten by someone was my point, live free die for food (or money). Is there much money to be made doing it or does it just cover the cartridges used.

[Reynard Bleu]

Just thought I'd mention I'm going pheasant shooting on Saturday morning.

That would be illegal then, October 1st is the start of Pheasant shooting season.

[OzFox]

That would be illegal then, October 1st is the start of Pheasant shooting season.

Was wondering about that.

Macho men don't worry about seasons

[Captain...]

Maybe he just misspelt peasant.

Edited 18 July 2012 by Captain Shrapnel

[cambridgefox]

Wish I had a gun this morning. Some sqrking bird on my roof above my bedroom started before 6am. It is hard to explain the noise it/they were making. No isea what type it is but i reckon a family nest there yearly. Sometimes they sound like a football rattle. Thought it was gone 8 but looked at the clock when getting dressed and it was 7am. The birds have shut up now.

I remember my brother saying to me once, that if you eat meat you should be prepared to kill the animal it came from. I suppose that is true. How many would be so eager if they had to slit a chicen's throat, pluck it then cook and eat it? Not sure if I'd fancy it but I would expect you'd become immune to it after a few times.

Probably a jay if it sounded like that,or maybe a magpie.If you are interested you can go on the RSPB website click on the bird and listen.Although I fish and shoot I do have an interest in birds(awaits jokes) and probably have a greater knowledge than most on the subject,so even though I shoot quarry does not mean I shoot anything and don't appreciate wildlife.

[cambridgefox]

Out of interest, how many do you kill outright? A few months ago I watched a bunch of toffs blasting away in Oxfordshire (Pheasant Hill ironically). Some of the birds were clearly hit but still made it to the treeline, where (presumably) they died slowly. I find it really weird that anyone could get enjoyment out of that.

That is the sort of behaviour that winds me up,obviously too far away and crap,you get to gage how far your outright killing range is,if in doubt don't shoot,although people start somewhere,a better option would be clays before live birds.

[Rincewind]

Probably a jay if it sounded like that,or maybe a magpie.If you are interested you can go on the RSPB website click on the bird and listen.Although I fish and shoot I do have an interest in birds(awaits jokes) and probably have a greater knowledge than most on the subject,so even though I shoot quarry does not mean I shoot anything and don't appreciate wildlife.

Thanks

This is the closest a magpie. I have seen them on Vicky park when I used to cut through going work. Wasn't sure where they nested. Not a jay anyway. They must only be there in the morning then go off for the day. The one this morning wash more harsher than normal. More like an electric drill. Not nice at 4-5am.

http://www.rspb.org....gpie/index.aspx

Edited 18 July 2012 by Nightguard

[ozleicester]

Probably a jay if it sounded like that,or maybe a magpie.If you are interested you can go on the RSPB website click on the bird and listen.Although I fish and shoot I do have an interest in birds(awaits jokes) and probably have a greater knowledge than most on the subject,so even though I shoot quarry does not mean I shoot anything and don't appreciate wildlife.

I appreciate your input and your approach to hunting is very interesting, so im not trying to be a cvnt or anything.. more im trying to understand. How do you enjoy killing something?