KFS Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 Evening all, A comment made in another thread about pricing at the KP and my current unit of study as part of my Business Studies degree has triggered a couple of thoughts in my head. What would be a realistic ticket price for you as a consumer? (Buying one off tickets, or maybe a reduction in ST price?) Think about the pricing scheme from a producers point of view (the club), what would be a realistic price to create an equilibrium? What other factors generally affect the demand for our tickets? Are we of the assumption that if prices were lowered we'd get 35k a week? If we can get some of these answers in hard facts with quantitative information, I'd love to draw up a demand curve for tickets and see the actual impact that prices would do to our attendance. I'm relatively new to Economics but it struck me that the club as suppliers would be better off filling the stadium at a lower price ticket than having 2/3 full surely? Seems too easy, there's got to be more to it, but what? Thoughts...
KFS Posted 10 October 2012 Author Posted 10 October 2012 Oh and no easy answers like "Premier League will bump up the attendance". Ceteris Paribus if possible.
Dan Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 Simple, because their revenue from ticket sales alone is increased very slightly even though the crowds are lower and obviously with money being the only interest (as they're a football club) they'll take a hit in crowds for it. Mind you, I thought they'd have actually made a bit more on top of ticket sales.
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 Demand is generally inelastic for match tickets, hence the high prices - the club wouldn't put them up if demand was elastic. However, I think with incomes going down due to the recession the demand curve for tickets is becoming more elastic and the club's recent policy of raising prices may have lead to only a small boost in revenue. BTW, you wouldn't be talking about my comment would you? The one with the table and figures?
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 I'm relatively new to Economics but it struck me that the club as suppliers would be better off filling the stadium at a lower price ticket than having 2/3 full surely? Seems too easy, there's got to be more to it, but what? Thoughts... How low would prices have to go to get a full stadium? If the club has to drop prices below 2/3 of current prices then they'd lose out on ticket revenue. Although they may get some of that back by boosting demand for other items like shirts and programmes with more supporters now open to these products.
KFS Posted 10 October 2012 Author Posted 10 October 2012 My logic would be to reduce tickets and increase the flow through other parts of the "match day experience" namely the shop. Although you wouldn't be able to put an exact value on the increase in sales through the shop, again all down to this recession, but you'd expect more volume to increase sales there. I didn't see the table, where can I find it?
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 My logic would be to reduce tickets and increase the flow through other parts of the "match day experience" namely the shop. Although you wouldn't be able to put an exact value on the increase in sales through the shop, again all down to this recession, but you'd expect more volume to increase sales there. I didn't see the table, where can I find it? Here it is, basically this was my attempt to find what you're trying to find out now. It isn't all correct, I don't know what match ticket prices were last season or our ST sales this season - I guessed both of these.
ian1984summer Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 realistically i would say £25 is a fair price to pay for an adult ticket, i would not say that it would make me attend any more games as my attendance is down to me working most saturdays. it is however a price i would be comfortable with and am sure a few more would be too. its the same as any business though and its all about turnover against profit. i am not sure that simply dropping the prices on ticket sales alone and having higher crowd numbers would increase the clubs income, but i feel that the extra crowd numbers then spending money on food/drink/programmes/merchandise etc would be of far greater value. again though on the other hand you have to take into consideration the extra costs of staff, security and policing etc. it would be nice to have all the facts, figures and costings to be able to make an informed judgement. thats my 2 pennies worth anyway.
Spiritwalker Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 You will get some answers to your questions at the next home game which is £15 for adults in most areas.
Deucalion Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 Am I right in thinking that an increase in attendance wouldn't necessarily result in more revenue from food and drink retail? Are the food outlets not a franchise? Wouldn't this mean that the club would receive a fixed revenue regardless of the amount of people in the stadium and the extra food and drink the extra supporters would buy? Likewise, get the part-timers down for a big game and they won't all necessarily buy a shirt. I would imagine people have pretty fixed 'shirt buying' habits. Higher attendances probably would result in increased program sales and more sales of small items in the shop. But the bottom line probably is that the club would lose more than it would gain from dropping ticket prices... unfortunately.
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 Am I right in thinking that an increase in attendance wouldn't necessarily result in more revenue from food and drink retail? Are the food outlets not a franchise? Wouldn't this mean that the club would receive a fixed revenue regardless of the amount of people in the stadium and the extra food and drink the extra supporters would buy? Likewise, get the part-timers down for a big game and they won't all necessarily buy a shirt. I would imagine people have pretty fixed 'shirt buying' habits. Higher attendances probably would result in increased program sales and more sales of small items in the shop. But the bottom line probably is that the club would lose more than it would gain from dropping ticket prices... unfortunately. I agree, match tickets are the big source of revenue for the club and a drop in price will usually lead to a (proportionately) smaller drop in customers buying those tickets. Therefore it makes financial sense to keep prices up.
ian1984summer Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 the food and drink question is a good one. iam pretty certain that it is franchised but am not sure as to whether they pay a fixed fee/rental for each kiosk or if it is a percentage of sales?
LCFC BEAST Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 I'm a bit upset by the owners for not bringing out any promotions as they did last season/season before. Take Charlton for example, they're doing 'Football For A Fiver' where all tickets are a fiver for all ages and anywhere in the ground. Even one game like this would boost attendances for the future.
MooseBreath Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 I see the arguement about reducing ticket prices to get more people in and thus more matchday spending on here all the time. It's quite obvious, so somewhat silly to assume the club haven't thought of it already. I would have thought the club will have many years worth of data on prices/attendances as well as matchday spending to the point where they know exactly how much extra revenue is generated on average per extra fan. In possession of such knowledge, it would seem silly again to assume that the club set ticket prices at anything other than the optimum level for profit.
Kitchandro Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 I don't think anyone should be charging over £20 for a ticket at this level. Of course I am biased but that's the way I have to think, it's pointless me thinking as a businessman because the whole situation revolves around me being a fan. There's no way prices should have gone up after last season, it was completely inconsiderate of the fans and the circumstances. It's no wonder attendances have dropped. I have two main gripes other than the general pricing - one is that the family stand is cheaper than the rest of the ground and the other is platinum fixtures. I wouldn't mind us getting 21K for most games as much if we got 30K for games against Forest and Derby.
Craig Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 I'm a bit upset by the owners for not bringing out any promotions as they did last season/season before. Take Charlton for example, they're doing 'Football For A Fiver' where all tickets are a fiver for all ages and anywhere in the ground. Even one game like this would boost attendances for the future. The next home match is £15 in most areas of the stadium (£20 in the centre) for an adult, as is Barnsley at home in December.
leicesterseddon Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 It's complicated. Some of the analysis is very short-term, looking only at the effects on revenue on a season-by-season / yearly basis. It seems to me that a decent number of clubs in our league and below suffer a kind of longer-term decline if their grounds are only 50%-60% full for most league games for any lengthy period of time. I you wanted to make it really vast, you could look at the effects of a fuller crowd on on-pitch success (which brings obvious financial returns), plus the effect on 'supporter experience' on long-term ticket trends - cf. Coventry where an empty ground and poor atmosphere (in their case, caused also by the fact that their ground capacity far outsrips their fanbase) can create a vicious circle as people get fed up and stop renewing, etc....
Corky Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 With two fans fixtures coming up, we'll see what the difference in crowd is and then we can judge whether lower prices would guarantee a crowd to make up the potential loss from the price reduction.
Libertine Dream Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 As Vader says you might get some indication against Brighton. I think we all know that Football seems to be fairly inelastic but each club is different. Of course we'd all like packed stadiums but until it looks like football's elasticity will change then it simply isnt going to happen. Would love to see your demand curve for this, Ive know somebody who went LSE and studied Economics and they struggled to do it for football
Kitchandro Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 With two fans fixtures coming up, we'll see what the difference in crowd is and then we can judge whether lower prices would guarantee a crowd to make up the potential loss from the price reduction. You're not wrong, but I believe crowds have already benefited in these one off fans fixtures, we got around 28K againts Doncaster and Bristol City the season before last. Whether they would be at that level if the prices were that cheap every week is another matter, but there's no doubt the numbers would improve somewhat. Looking at the stats section on here its sad to see some of the attendances we were getting in 02/03 and what we're getting now. I reliase that was down to a variety of reasons and probably not so much ticket prices but it's still sad to see the kind of numbers we could be attracting and where we are now.
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 October 2012 Posted 10 October 2012 As Vader says you might get some indication against Brighton. I think we all know that Football seems to be fairly inelastic but each club is different. Of course we'd all like packed stadiums but until it looks like football's elasticity will change then it simply isnt going to happen. Would love to see your demand curve for this, Ive know somebody who went LSE and studied Economics and they struggled to do it for football Fans are too loyal! If supporters were less faitful (and therefore leading to a more elastic demand curve) then prices would have to be lower to reel those plastics them in, damn you committed fans coming into our grounds and raising our prices!
Leicester_Numan Posted 11 October 2012 Posted 11 October 2012 the food and drink question is a good one. iam pretty certain that it is franchised but am not sure as to whether they pay a fixed fee/rental for each kiosk or if it is a percentage of sales? I would imagine they're like concession stands at concerts and it's a percentage of sales
davieG Posted 11 October 2012 Posted 11 October 2012 Players are paid way too much = extortionate match day ticket prices, therefore it will only get worse and never change.
dynamark Posted 11 October 2012 Posted 11 October 2012 Im never going to be season ticket holder for various reasons so probably looking at 10 games to pick out during the year and the £15 deal makes a difference to my decisions.Looking at the numbers it would appear ticket revenue from non STH comes out about the same on the discounted matches due to the extra numbers.This will all be via computer models not just guesswork.The bit I dont get is the big jump in price at age 12.11 or 12 they still dont pay for thei r own ticket.I assume computer thinks that you can always sayto a 10 yr old 'stay at home with mum today' but when a 13 year old pesters you to come to the match its virtually impossible to say no.
Deucalion Posted 11 October 2012 Posted 11 October 2012 Players are paid way too much = extortionate match day ticket prices, therefore it will only get worse and never change. FFL will probably result in players outside the Premier League being paid less. Whether this translates into cheaper ticket prices is another matter.
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