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The People's Hero

Public Works

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Posted

Is it possible to edit Iwan Roberts in to the game? I want him as player-coach.

He used to be in it as a coach but I'm not sure he will be now.

You could create him easily enough if he doesn't exist, yeah.

Posted

The British Welfare system is fantastic but abused by too many and being more abused every passing year.

Who? Who is abusing it? How many of them are there? Are they all Radio 1 DJs or are some of them shite comedians too? Where did they abuse the fantastic British Welfare system? In a holiday home in Prestatyn? In a campervan?

I feel we need to know the facts about this so it can be prevented in future. I demand FT holds a full official public inquiry.

Posted

Who? Who is abusing it? How many of them are there? Are they all Radio 1 DJs or are some of them shite comedians too? Where did they abuse the fantastic British Welfare system? In a holiday home in Prestatyn? In a campervan?

I feel we need to know the facts about this so it can be prevented in future. I demand FT holds a full official public inquiry.

:) We just did. :P

  • 1 month later...
Posted

My garden has loads of leaves all over it. I have to go to work.

Why can't one of the spongers, who's income I pay, come round and clear up my leaves? (and try to resist breaking in to my shed)

  • 1 month later...
Posted

Anyone coming round to my public works for the unemployed yet? Bung them a few extra quid to scrub graffiti of buildings or wash cars or fill potholes or unblock drains or whatever?

Posted

Anyone coming round to my public works for the unemployed yet? Bung them a few extra quid to scrub graffiti of buildings or wash cars or fill potholes or unblock drains or whatever?

It's a good idea. I'm sure most of the unemployed would be happy to do any of those jobs for a normal wage of £6 an hour or something.

  • 4 months later...
Posted

Oh look, we discussed this before.

 

Yep, and the conclusion is the same. I think most people wouldn't have a problem with it as long as the wage was in line with what other people doing the same job is. Same job, same contribution = same wage.

Posted

Yep, and the conclusion is the same. I think most people wouldn't have a problem with it as long as the wage was in line with what other people doing the same job is. Same job, same contribution = same wage.

 

What if they were paid 85% of the wage, with the other 15% addressing any deficit in terms of what they've claimed in the past, with 100% wage being paid once they've repaid their debt to society?

Posted

What if they were paid 85% of the wage, with the other 15% addressing any deficit in terms of what they've claimed in the past, with 100% wage being paid once they've repaid their debt to society?

 

You mean like a tax?

Posted

What if they were paid 85% of the wage, with the other 15% addressing any deficit in terms of what they've claimed in the past, with 100% wage being paid once they've repaid their debt to society?

 

As long as that 85% came in above minimum wage for the laws sake, and the 'probationary period' was well defined (after all you get those in most jobs anyhow), that could work.

Posted

You mean like a tax?

 

Yes, like an additional tax. 

 

Normal workers who have never claimed also pay tax. 

 

Something more should be taken to repay the debt to society.

Posted

As long as that 85% came in above minimum wage for the laws sake, and the 'probationary period' was well defined (after all you get those in most jobs anyhow), that could work.

 

Excellent. Then let's get it done.

 

I think probably most of those claiming are quite happy to be claiming and they simply don't like the idea of working for a living.

 

I think we owe this opportunity to those who do want some experience, something to do, some pride and self-esteem. 

 

There must be enough money about to create this opportunity to make our villages/towns and cities better places to live. Potholes filled/leaves cleared/private areas kept need and tidy/hedges kept trimmed/graffiti removed etc?

I know it creates other problem/questions etc - and maybe the range of tasks/responsibilities needs to be really properly looked at since there are already organisation carrying out some of this work - I'm just looking for something additional to do perhaps non-essential work, but work which can result in big improvements to our urban areas.

Posted

Yes, like an additional tax. 

 

Normal workers who have never claimed also pay tax. 

 

Something more should be taken to repay the debt to society.

 

So you want to double tax the poorest in society whilst making them do shitty jobs, but you despair at the thought of double taxation on rich dead people.

Posted

So you want to double tax the poorest in society whilst making them do shitty jobs, but you despair at the thought of double taxation on rich dead people.

 

 

If you want to put it that way, yes.

 

We're talking about the honourable though who want to work and probably feel bad about claiming when they are perfectly able to work. I think its fair.

 

Rich people pay a lot of tax as it is, you know that as well as I do. Can we have a proper discussion? You can use obfuscation like that to confuse an idiot, but I'm a good few steps above that. You're going to need bits of string, mirrors and possibly a cloak and dagger to fool me.

Posted

Excellent. Then let's get it done.

 

I think probably most of those claiming are quite happy to be claiming and they simply don't like the idea of working for a living.

 

I think we owe this opportunity to those who do want some experience, something to do, some pride and self-esteem. 

 

There must be enough money about to create this opportunity to make our villages/towns and cities better places to live. Potholes filled/leaves cleared/private areas kept need and tidy/hedges kept trimmed/graffiti removed etc?

I know it creates other problem/questions etc - and maybe the range of tasks/responsibilities needs to be really properly looked at since there are already organisation carrying out some of this work - I'm just looking for something additional to do perhaps non-essential work, but work which can result in big improvements to our urban areas.

 

Don't agree with the idea of the majority of people on benefits being happy to be there. Reckon that's a small minority. 

 

As I've said above though, I think the idea is reasonable.

 

If you want to put it that way, yes.

 

We're talking about the honourable though who want to work and probably feel bad about claiming when they are perfectly able to work. I think its fair.

 

Rich people pay a lot of tax as it is, you know that as well as I do. Can we have a proper discussion? You can use obfuscation like that to confuse an idiot, but I'm a good few steps above that. You're going to need bits of string, mirrors and possibly a cloak and dagger to fool me.

 

Rich people hire accountants so they don't have to pay tax.  :P

Posted

If you want to put it that way, yes.

 

We're talking about the honourable though who want to work and probably feel bad about claiming when they are perfectly able to work. I think its fair.

 

Rich people pay a lot of tax as it is, you know that as well as I do. Can we have a proper discussion? You can use obfuscation like that to confuse an idiot, but I'm a good few steps above that. You're going to need bits of string, mirrors and possibly a cloak and dagger to fool me.

 

The rich pay more in terms of money but less in real terms.

 

If someone has been working all their life, contributing to National Insurance, and find themselves unemployed as the government has given a big train manufacturing contract to a German company rather than a UK company, they then deserve the safety net of JSA and welfare, as they have paid into it the pot all their lives.

 

When you take out home contents insurance and get burgled, the insurance company pays you back for what you've lost, they don't then insist on you paying them back, on top of paying you premiums.

 

We pay national insurance to pay for the protection given to us by the state to look after us when we are sick or unable to work, the way you are going you will be insisting on sick people paying back what they have cost the state in health care.

 

Now if these public works are being paid a proper wage then they will pay NI, so they are already paying back what they have taken out. There will always be winners and losers, and you won't know which you will be until you die.

Posted

 

When you take out home contents insurance and get burgled, the insurance company pays you back for what you've lost, they don't then insist on you paying them back, on top of paying you premiums.

 

 

Glad you made this point.

 

Consider the 15% deduction to be their 'excess'.

Posted

Glad you made this point.

 

Consider the 15% deduction to be their 'excess'.

 

And are you going to levy this "excess" against health care, state pension and disability allowances?

Posted

And are you going to levy this "excess" against health care, state pension and disability allowances?

 

Nope? How about people that are unemployed but don't take job seekers, can they claim that back out of their future NI contributions?

Posted

Oh! So this is the thread you were having a sulk about quite openly in others threads for not having received a reply.

I do apologise, but I have quite a lot on my plate and hasn't seen this.

In answer to your extremely pedantic and specific criticism/question of my idea (a strategy often employed when a contrary individual stumbles across a common sense, good idea they can't really argue with), the specifics are clearly up in the air. It's an idea. A concept. A stimulus for discussion. Doesn't make the idea a bad one!

Assume you will now be off back to your wringing thread to withdraw your bitching about people not responding to your probing questions? Or will you hypocritically ignore this?

Posted

Oh! So this is the thread you were having a sulk about quite openly in others threads for not having received a reply.

I do apologise, but I have quite a lot on my plate and hasn't seen this.

In answer to your extremely pedantic and specific criticism/question of my idea (a strategy often employed when a contrary individual stumbles across a common sense, good idea they can't really argue with), the specifics are clearly up in the air. It's an idea. A concept. A stimulus for discussion. Doesn't make the idea a bad one!

Assume you will now be off back to your wringing thread to withdraw your bitching about people not responding to your probing questions? Or will you hypocritically ignore this?

 

One comment, on one thread, not specifically aimed at you as it happens often, but motivated by this thread, it wasn't even having a pop at you, it's just frustrating when you are talking about something and getting into it, then suddenly no response, it is a frustration about internet forums as much as anything.

 

The point is though we are discussing an idea, but if you are discussing an idea you have look at it from all angles, and you can't say that those that use one part of NI have to pay it back, but those that use other parts don't. It is not a pedantic question it is a valid question and one that raises the point should benefits be a part of national insurance? Should they be handled separately, an opt in/out separate benefits insurance, could even be private, I'm sure if this was opened up to the free market we would see less people making a career out of benefits and a more efficient job centre.

 

It was not an attempt to derail the discussion but add to it, you want to discuss I'll wait your reply with a bit more patience this time.

Posted

The answer is I don't know. I'm an ideas man. I need details men around me (ooo-err) and they can thrash out the finer points. I get bored quickly so I sow the seeds, set the direction etc and rely on others to deal with detail. So the answer is I don't really know.

What do you think? Do you think my idea is workable? Even with some amendments?

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