Public Works

[Finnegan]

I think my work here is done.

You have to admit, its been a good thread so far.

Might drink a few bottles of pinot gris tonight and come back to it.

I'll have some stella and a packet of pork scratchings and we can finish this like men.

[The People's Hero]

I'll have some stella and a packet of pork scratchings and we can finish this like men.

By agreeing to just disagree on this subject and then choosing instead to argue about who's round it is or which Smiths album is the dreariest (all of them).

[Captain...]

Benefits aren't pay, they're just keeping you alive. If you graft for an honest living, even doing menial work, you at very least deserve minimum wage.

I'm surprised I need to explain that to a socialist.

Well the way I see it working is if you earn £70 a week JSA, then you should do at least 10 hours work a week, I don't think the people's hero (is that an ironic username?) is suggesting that people should work 40 hour weeks doing physical labour for their JSA, and I would also only apply it to JSA and not to other benefits.

In theory I am in favour of it, it gives people work experience, they will have relevant references and it will create jobs, to manage and run these teams, and whilst I appreciate your concern it will cost others their jobs, I think we can all think of areas in Leicester which would benefit from having someone come in and sort them out with a bit of elbow grease, it may be that these jobs are oversubscribed, but there is certainly a need for more of these jobs to be done and more social contributions, and they can be tailored to needs.

If you are an unemployed teacher, you help out at a school for 10 hours a week for your JSA, if you are an unemployed Chef, you help out at a soup kitchen for 10 hours a week, and if you were needed to work more than 10 hours then you could do and get paid extra for it.

I would fully support these kind of initiatives and believe they would be beneficial to all except those that are scrounging and want something for nothing, I don't agree with people being put in jail for not doing it, but I do think they should lose their JSA if they do not comply...

[The People's Hero]

Well the way I see it working is if you earn £70 a week JSA, then you should do at least 10 hours work a week, I don't think the people's hero (is that an ironic username?) is suggesting that people should work 40 hour weeks doing physical labour for their JSA, and I would also only apply it to JSA and not to other benefits.

In theory I am in favour of it, it gives people work experience, they will have relevant references and it will create jobs, to manage and run these teams, and whilst I appreciate your concern it will cost others their jobs, I think we can all think of areas in Leicester which would benefit from having someone come in and sort them out with a bit of elbow grease, it may be that these jobs are oversubscribed, but there is certainly a need for more of these jobs to be done and more social contributions, and they can be tailored to needs.

If you are an unemployed teacher, you help out at a school for 10 hours a week for your JSA, if you are an unemployed Chef, you help out at a soup kitchen for 10 hours a week, and if you were needed to work more than 10 hours then you could do and get paid extra for it.

I would fully support these kind of initiatives and believe they would be beneficial to all except those that are scrounging and want something for nothing, I don't agree with people being put in jail for not doing it, but I do think they should lose their JSA if they do not comply...

You've expressed that a lot better than I did, but yes, that's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Similarly in Maidstone, there are areas that just need a good clean up, tidy, scrub etc. Done.

[Webbo]

What if you're an unemployed teacher or Chef because you are crap at your job? These schemes seem like a good idea but I doubt if they are practical.

[The People's Hero]

What if you're an unemployed teacher or Chef because you are crap at your job? These schemes seem like a good idea but I doubt if they are practical.

A lot of teachers are cr ap at their jobs and continue to be employed. Probably the same with chefs.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Well the way I see it working is if you earn £70 a week JSA, then you should do at least 10 hours work a week, I don't think the people's hero (is that an ironic username?) is suggesting that people should work 40 hour weeks doing physical labour for their JSA, and I would also only apply it to JSA and not to other benefits.

In theory I am in favour of it, it gives people work experience, they will have relevant references and it will create jobs, to manage and run these teams, and whilst I appreciate your concern it will cost others their jobs, I think we can all think of areas in Leicester which would benefit from having someone come in and sort them out with a bit of elbow grease, it may be that these jobs are oversubscribed, but there is certainly a need for more of these jobs to be done and more social contributions, and they can be tailored to needs.

If you are an unemployed teacher, you help out at a school for 10 hours a week for your JSA, if you are an unemployed Chef, you help out at a soup kitchen for 10 hours a week, and if you were needed to work more than 10 hours then you could do and get paid extra for it.

I would fully support these kind of initiatives and believe they would be beneficial to all except those that are scrounging and want something for nothing, I don't agree with people being put in jail for not doing it, but I do think they should lose their JSA if they do not comply...

Make it optional, but for those taking it up give £90 a week for their 10 hrs. Though it's only a little extra, it's decent pay with all the added bonuses mentioned above, whilst getting you out of the house and turning into a vegetable (not saying this is the case with most people, but it certainly does happen to some.)

[Finnegan]

So socialism doesn't mind if bankers earns millions from their abilities?

Most socialists would tell you that the current valuation of bankers is farcical.

Socialism isn't against paying, for example, firemen more than street sweepers (while communism usually involves a universal income for all regardless) but it's more likely to calculate worth by physical effort, contribution to the community or importance.

Bankers wages are an obvious example of the wealthy looking after one another.

[leicsmac]

A lot of teachers are cr ap at their jobs and continue to be employed. Probably the same with chefs.

Ouch. As a former teacher (both here in the UK and abroad), I can say with absolute certainty that these days the job breaks people (teaching in the UK, that is). Would you want to do it?

I think most teachers do the best they can under utterly bastardised legislation that is changed every few years according to the whims of the politicians in charge at the time.

[Finnegan]

By agreeing to just disagree on this subject and then choosing instead to argue about who's round it is or which Smiths album is the dreariest (all of them).

And which 90s football cult heroes are or were the most "magnificent."

[The People's Hero]

Ouch. As a former teacher (both here in the UK and abroad), I can say with absolute certainty that the job breaks people (teaching in the UK, that is). Would you want to do it?

I have absolutely no doubt about that - but it has nothing to do with my comment.

I absolutely wouldn't do it and actually think its a factor in why so many people who may make great teachers, do not teach.

[Captain...]

What if you're an unemployed teacher or Chef because you are crap at your job? These schemes seem like a good idea but I doubt if they are practical.

Well your not going to get any better sitting on your arse, by helping out at schools or soup kitchens you would be more experienced should the opportunity arise to have a job in your chosen field, I am not saying that they should be in charge of classes of 30 kids, or being head chef, but helping out, whether it is chaperone on a field trip, or teaching assistant, or peeling spuds and washing pots in a soup kitchen, if you are good they my let you have more responsibility and maybe even after a while a job.

Likewise anyone with any sort of skill or experience could help out at a school, whether it is a careers talk, financial advice, music lessons, but this would all take management so the onus would be on the claimant to find themselves 10 hours of work in their chosen field, or they are picking up litter and scrubbing graffiti etc.

But it would have to be in the public or volunteer sector, otherwise it would be exploited by private companies.

[The People's Hero]

And which 90s football cult heroes are or were the most "magnificent."

1) Ian Ormondroyd

2) Lee Philpott

3) Kevin Poole

No spot for Walshy, which feels harsh. I stand by it though.

WAIT!

What about Jimmy Willis and Franck Rolling?

Shall we go back to arguing about scroungers?

[Captain...]

Ouch. As a former teacher (both here in the UK and abroad), I can say with absolute certainty that these days the job breaks people (teaching in the UK, that is). Would you want to do it?

I think most teachers do the best they can under utterly bastardised legislation that is changed every few years according to the whims of the politicians in charge at the time.

Would it make teaching easier to have more people helping out in the school?

[leicsmac]

I have absolutely no doubt about that - but it has nothing to do with my comment.

I absolutely wouldn't do it and actually think its a factor in why so many people who may make great teachers, do not teach.

Yeah, apologies for that - only figured that once I'd posted, so I put an edit in there to add more context.

I'll repeat it here: "I think most teachers do the best they can under utterly bastardised legislation that is changed every few years according to the whims of the politicians in charge at the time."

[leicsmac]

Would it make teaching easier to have more people helping out in the school?

Absofrigginglutely.

Thing is in order to really have an effect those people would have to have reasonable knowledge about the subject being taught, as well as the teacher. From what I've experienced discipline etc isn't the most massive issue in schools now (in the ones I've taught in there were enough staff to deal with that), it's the fact that everyone learns at different rates and 1:30 tuition is ridiculously inefficient for people learning in any other way than just by rote in automaton fashion.

[Finnegan]

Jamie Lawrence.

Fact.

[Webbo]

You can force people onto these schemes but you can't force enthusiasm on them. You might be supervising a litter picking operation but how can you make some tattooed skinhead actually pick up rubbish if he doesn't want to? There are plenty of people in paid employment who think it's against their human rights to actually have to do the thing they're paid for without expecting unpaid unemployables to actually put some effort in.

[The People's Hero]

I feel like we are making progress on a number of fronts here.

Mark Blake and his brace against Southampton?

You can force people onto these schemes but you can't force enthusiasm on them. You might be supervising a litter picking operation but how can you make some tattooed skinhead actually pick up rubbish if he doesn't want to? There are plenty of people in paid employment who think it's against their human rights to actually have to do the thing they're paid for without expecting unpaid unemployables to actually put some effort in.

Don't pay him his JSA if he doesn't

[Webbo]

Don't pay him his JSA if he doesn't

He knows your name and he knows where you work.

[The People's Hero]

He knows your name and he knows where you work.

Yes and presumably he knows the rules (just to clarify these would be explained to the claimants).

They don't have to claim? They could go out and actually get a job?

[Trav Le Bleu]

He knows your name and he knows where you work.

Get other people on JSA to do 10 hrs a week as bodyguards.

That's blue sky thinking that is!

[Captain...]

Jamie Lawrence.

Fact.

Reformed criminals is another thread...

oh I see what you did there.

Mickey Galloway?

[Guest]

Make it 80's: Norman Leet.

[Trav Le Bleu]

What a throw he had!