Thatcher Dies

[Manwell Pablo]

"Liverpool FC need to grow up when it comes to Hillsborough" that says it all.

Well tell me I'm wrong.

I don't see why you you think you have a right to bare a grude over a newspaper article, a bull shit cover up enquiry, and throw street partys over the death over a woman who directly or indirectly had nothing to do with incident despite being in power at the time, when you've been forgiven for slaughtering 39 innocent Italians four years prior, seems funny how Liverpool fans always forget that

Also while most of your support that day were nothing but innocent I am still of the opinion that, while the blame should always lie with police for failing to control the incident, those that turned up late, pissed up, and without a ticket to the match, shouldn't be absloved of all blame no what the latest enquiry says.

[Zingari]

Am I correct in saying the pits were losing billions (in today's money) and the unions were demanding pay rises, even though they weren't making a bean?

i'm not sure if it would be billions.

That’s quite a difficult one to answer because the coal imports were subsidised too making coal prices artificially low. Of course if some countries stop producing coal the prices will gradually rise to more realistic levels .

We must also take into account that the imported coal is actually going to cost us so this cost should be balanced against the cost of subsidy.( it’s not free)

I’d think that on balance and without seeing any figures that we’ve paid more on importing coal p.a. than we did on subsidies .

And that’s not taking into account redundancies and benefits and the effects on community and local businesses that served the mining industry.

[_Fatboyslow_]

You don't think it's a bit pathetic having some kind of fake party/spraying champagne etc? I find it rather odd myself, but hey ho.

I do find it odd and a little dusturbing,as well as the party packs with a tee shirt,

[The Doctor]

In other thatcher related news, ding dong the witch is dead is number 20 on the iTunes chart!

- C'mon for number one.

Edit: It's up to 18th.

[_Fatboyslow_]

My point isn't, no

The unions had bought down the previous government by nearly bankrupting the country with refusals to work without massive pay rises, not just the coal industry there were bodies lying in morgues for three months because funeral directors wouldn't work, she got in because she said she would smash the unions and she did.

Your point therefore ignores the preceding issues that brought about the circumstances that you quote

[Deucalion]

I'm sorry Thatcher died yesterday.

I wish she had died 60 years earlier.

Cue faux sanctimonious howling.

[Guest MattP]

Well tell me I'm wrong.

I don't see why you you think you have a right to bare a grude over a newspaper article, a bull shit cover up enquiry, and throw street partys over the death over a woman who directly or indirectly had nothing to do with incident despite being in power at the time, when you've been forgiven for slaughtering 39 innocent Italians four years prior, seems funny how Liverpool fans always forget that

Also while most of your support that day were nothing but innocent I am still of the opinion that, while the blame should always lie with police for failing to control the incident, those that turned up late, pissed up, and without a ticket to the match, shouldn't be absloved of all blame no what the latest enquiry says.

Thats Liverpool all over, justice for Shields! It was Sankey!

Shields out and a campaign to get Sankey for justice? Course not.

'Always the victims, it's never your fault'

Gpod thing is a lot still really know what happened at Hillsboro and the slander of MT and the Sun wont be changing that.

[purpleronnie]

I wish Mattp & Daggers would sort out their differences.

Maybe they need to get together and bring a tape measure and see who the real winner is.

Or perhaps you could come over to my place, and me and mattp could humblebrag about our business trips abroad whilst discussing Daggers issues with strong powerful women.

Or maybe we can combine mattp's passion for prostitutes with daggers issues and just invite a domanatrix over, the more the merrier right?

I'm telling you an hour in my company and you'll be as happy as 2 hippies on dole day.

What do you say guys?

[Uncle Albert]

Liverpool fans were rightly punished for Heysel, they did wrong and they served their punishment. Who's been punished for Hillsborough? Nobody. 23 years Liverpool fans were told they killed their own, urinated on their own and stolen off their own, and guess what? You might not like it but it was confirmed they were lies, lies that Thatcher was apart of.

She lead the cover up, you may not like it but she did.

The newspaper article I didn't like came from Thatchers media man Bernard Ingham, calling Liverpool fans a tanked up mob, again which was untrue. No newspaper article mentioned the Police opening the gate? Why? When that's what happened.

This same great woman wanted electric fences putting in at Football matches and fans carrying ID cards!

[_Fatboyslow_]

i'm not sure if it would be billions.

That’s quite a difficult one to answer because the coal imports were subsidised too making coal prices artificially low. Of course if some countries stop producing coal the prices will gradually rise to more realistic levels .

We must also take into account that the imported coal is actually going to cost us so this cost should be balanced against the cost of subsidy.( it’s not free)

I’d think that on balance and without seeing any figures that we’ve paid more on importing coal p.a. than we did on subsidies .

And that’s not taking into account redundancies and benefits and the effects on community and local businesses that served the mining industry.

Don't forget it was also a attack on ALL mutaul and municipal institutions

[Guest MattP]

I wish Mattp & Daggers would sort out their differences.

Maybe they need to get together and bring a tape measure and see who the real winner is.

Or perhaps you could come over to my place, and me and mattp could humblebrag about our business trips abroad whilst discussing Daggers issues with strong powerful women.

Or maybe we can combine mattp's passion for prostitutes with daggers issues and just invite a domanatrix over, the more the merrier right?

I'm telling you an hour in my company and you'll be as happy as 2 hippes on dole day.

What do you say guys?

Up for anything Ronnie!

[Deucalion]

Do you know who I do have sympathy for?

• The elderly, previously hard working miner who lost his livelyhood and pride when he was victim to a power struggle between unions and prime minister.
  
• The orphans of Chilian people who never knew their parents as they were thrown out of a plane alive over the Pacific by Pinochet's regime. A regime backed by Thatcher.
  
• A young person today who lives in an area where the only aspirational career choice since the 80s has been drug dealing.
  
• A young family forced to pay huge private rent because there is a social housing shortage since Thatcher started selling them off.
  
• Anyone who died in a train crash after railtrack paid dividends to shareholders rather than maintain the railway lines they had been allowed to purchase.
  
• The family of Hillsborough victims who have to live with the rage of knowing their loved ones were unfairly blamed for their deaths.
  
• Anyone who would rather stand at a football match and cannot due to the Taylor Report.
  
• Anyone who is currently suffering from the recession following the Credit Crunch. An event which has it's origins in the deregulation of banking practices in the 80s.
  

Thatcher was not a nice person.

[Vacamion]

, lies that Thatcher was apart of.

She lead the cover up, you may not like it but she did.

That's a few of you who have made this kind of allegation.

I repeat my previously posed question which no-one answered:

What evidence is there that Margaret Thatcher personally instigated the smears or the cover up?

As I pointed out previously, the Hillborough Independent Panel which reported last year blamed many, but it did not blame Mrs Thatcher.

I get the sense that blaming her for all the bad things which happened after Hillsborough is repeated in the hope that the mud will stick.

Where is the evidence she instigated the smear or the cover up??

[Guest Bilo]

Good thing is a lot still really know what happened at Hillsboro and the slander of MT and the Sun wont be changing that.

Don't be a prat Matt.

Repeated inquiries have shown that The Sun printed total and utter nonsense about Hillsborough and the Liverpool fans. They were fed by the police who were frantically trying to cover their own arse because they knew they'd dropped the ball big time.

Denying Thatcher's part in the cover-up is one thing, but pretending that no cover-up happened or lies were told is just ludicrous.

[Guest MattP]

Don't be a prat Matt.

Repeated inquiries have shown that The Sun printed total and utter nonsense about Hillsborough and the Liverpool fans. They were fed by the police who were frantically trying to cover their own arse because they knew they'd dropped the ball big time.

Denying Thatcher's part in the cover-up is one thing, but pretending that no cover-up happened or lies were told is just ludicrous.

Not doubting that most printed was bollocks, we all know that. It wasn't all bollocks though.

Quite a few Forest fans who were there will tell you about Ambulances being robbed.

They still haven't heard learnt either when you read about their behaviour in Athens.

[Vacamion]

Denying Thatcher's part in the cover-up is one thing

What part did she play in the cover up?

Which enquiry concluded she was personally involved?

The H.I.P. last year concluded that SYorks Police had lied, a local MP had lied and The Sun repeated the lies.

I saw no reports of Margaret Thatcher being directly and personally involved.

[Manwell Pablo]

Liverpool fans were rightly punished for Heysel, they did wrong and they served their punishment. Who's been punished for Hillsborough? Nobody. 23 years Liverpool fans were told they killed their own, urinated on their own and stolen off their own, and guess what? You might not like it but it was confirmed they were lies, lies that Thatcher was apart of.

She lead the cover up, you may not like it but she did.

The newspaper article I didn't like came from Thatchers media man Bernard Ingham, calling Liverpool fans a tanked up mob, again which was untrue. No newspaper article mentioned the Police opening the gate? Why? When that's what happened.

This same great woman wanted electric fences putting in at Football matches and fans carrying ID cards!

I think on average there was less than a year served by the pityful 14 men (when 100's were involved) convicted of Man Slaughter at Heysel, you call that Justice?

There is a big difference betweem the two incidents in the Police were, trying to do their job at Hillsborough, admittidly they failed, but a section of your crowd harldy made it easy for them. In Italy, your fans attacked those of you Juventus with malicous intent. I can understand why there was a need to know the truth, but you've got your truth now, so perhaps you should start to let it go, offer some the same humilty others have shown you.

How exactly was she a part of it? Apart from being in power at the time?

[davieG]

What part did she play in the cover up?

Which enquiry concluded she was personally involved?

The H.I.P. last year concluded that SYorks Police had lied, a local MP had lied and The Sun repeated the lies.

I saw no reports of Margaret Thatcher being directly and personally involved.

I can't remember where i read it or the details but there was a report that she was told of the police cover up (not sure how much of it) but instructed that it should be suppressed in order to maintain a good public opinion of the police.

Just found this-

Margaret Thatcher had concerns that a report into the Hillsborough disaster constituted a "devastating criticism" of police, newly released papers show.

The then prime minister made the remark in response to a civil servant's memo about the conclusions of the Taylor report into the 1989 tragedy.

The memo said then Home Secretary Douglas Hurd intended to welcome the "broad thrust" of the report.

But the PM urged him to welcome its "thoroughness and recommendations".

Among the new documents released on Wednesday was a memo from a senior civil servant to Baroness Thatcher about the interim report into the tragedy by Lord Justice Taylor.

She was told the August 1989 report had found that the chief superintendent in charge at Hillsborough had "behaved in an indecisive fashion" and senior officers had infuriated the judge by seeking to "duck all responsibility when giving evidence" to his inquiry.

The memo made it clear that Mr Hurd thought South Yorkshire Chief Constable Peter Wright would have to resign, adding: "The enormity of the disaster, and the extent to which the inquiry blames the police, demand this."

And it added: "The defensive, and at times close to deceitful, behaviour by the senior officers in South Yorkshire sounds depressingly familiar. Too many senior policemen seem to lack the capacity or character to perceive and admit faults in their organisation."

The report, the memo added, would "sap confidence in the police force" and could encourage aggressive behaviour by fans who would feel "vindicated" by its conclusions.

But in a handwritten note, Mrs Thatcher made it clear that she did not want to give the government's full backing to Lord Taylor's criticisms, only to the way in which he had conducted his inquiry and made recommendations for action.

She wrote: "What do we mean by 'welcoming the broad thrust of the report'? The broad thrust is devastating criticism of the police. Is that for us to welcome? Surely we welcome the thoroughness of the report and its recommendations - M.T."

[The Doctor]

Great plan - we'd be out of debt in no time.

[Guest Bilo]

What part did she play in the cover up?

Which enquiry concluded she was personally involved?

The H.I.P. last year concluded that SYorks Police had lied, a local MP had lied and The Sun repeated the lies.

I saw no reports of Margaret Thatcher being directly and personally involved.

There isn't much evidence to suggest she was personally involved in the cover-up, the SYP did a sterling job though. If they could police matches as proficiently as lying then Hillsborough would have been the safest ground in the country.

You could certainly surmise that she'd have supported such a cover-up though, given her well documented antipathy towards football fans, but I emphasise that is surmising.

[Uncle Albert]

If turning it round to Heysel makes you feel so much better about Thatcher then by all means keep using this example, I've never applauded or stuck up for Liverpool fans in Heysel, they were wrong, Juventus fans were wrong, unfortunately the Juventus fans lost their lives. Nobody should ever go to a game of Football and lose their life, ever.

If you can't see that Thatcher was apart of the cover up then more fool you, like I've said I'm glad she's dead. That's my last post on the topic. Reply to this if you want, it will be wasted but by all means reply.

[Manwell Pablo]

If turning it round to Heysel makes you feel so much better about Thatcher then by all means keep using this example, I've never applauded or stuck up for Liverpool fans in Heysel, they were wrong, Juventus fans were wrong, unfortunately the Juventus fans lost their lives. Nobody should ever go to a game of Football and lose their life, ever.

If you can't see that Thatcher was apart of the cover up then more fool you, like I've said I'm glad she's dead. That's my last post on the topic. Reply to this if you want, it will be wasted but by all means reply.

I am just saying, if you can be forgiven, maybe you should learn to forgive.

[cambridgefox]

Great plan - we'd be out of debt in no time.

Even quicker if we charged for the bandwagon that people want to get on!

[Guest MattP]

Quote I just came by on Facebook summed it up for me.

If you're out on a week day having a street party to celebrate the death of an old lady, you've probably got bigger problems than simply the legacy of said old lady.

[Manwell Pablo]

Great plan - we'd be out of debt in no time.

Cher is dead as well?