The Year Of The Fox Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 I think a lot agree that Rooney hasn't reached the heights of expectation when he first came onto the scene at Everton and his early days at Old Trafford. Some say- and I agree- that it's because he has been moulded into something else by SAF and England managers, a better all round player who brings more to the table than just goals perhaps. Anyone think that Moyes now will utilise him as an out and out striker, who demands that Rooney stays on the shoulder of the last man? Moyes worked with him last time when he was very raw so will know his goalscoring pedigree better than most. I'd like to think he will not encourage Rooney to be chasing the ball around in Midfield and even as we often find him, Defence. I hope Moyes can get him doing this, take it back to basics or whatever you will, as I think it'd only have a positive impact on England providing Hodgson used him in the same way as Moyes. Thoughts?
Jimothy Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 I think a lot agree that Rooney hasn't reached the heights of expectation when he first came onto the scene at Everton and his early days at Old Trafford. Some say- and I agree- that it's because he has been moulded into something else by SAF and England managers, a better all round player who brings more to the table than just goals perhaps. Anyone think that Moyes now will utilise him as an out and out striker, who demands that Rooney stays on the shoulder of the last man? Moyes worked with him last time when he was very raw so will know his goalscoring pedigree better than most. I'd like to think he will not encourage Rooney to be chasing the ball around in Midfield and even as we often find him, Defence. I hope Moyes can get him doing this, take it back to basics or whatever you will, as I think it'd only have a positive impact on England providing Hodgson used him in the same way as Moyes. Thoughts? I'm of the other opinion, I think Fergie took that tracking back element out of his game and turned him into an out and out striker a couple of years ago, and that's made him a worse player. Before he was looking like he'd become something special, he'd track back and pick the ball up, play fantastic passes or take on half the opposition. England hadn't had a player like that for years. Fergie playing him as an out and out striker took that out of his game. We have plenty of players who can put the ball in the back of the net regularly in this country, what we needed was that player with the X-Factor. 6-8 years ago I thought that might be Rooney, now he's just another Defoe. Is that really what we wanted for England's best prospect in years? I mean thoe performances in Euro 2004, against Portugal etc. I think even before then he played against someone like Turkey and just took them apart, was all over the pitch taking players on, creating chances. That's now gone, and we're left with a fox in the box. I hope Moyes gives him free reign, lets RVP, Welbeck and Hernandez get on with getting 30 a season, and let Rooney get on with terrorising defences.
Guest ttfn Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 I don't care what anybody says, there was a 3 or 4 month period in 2009-10 when Rooney was genuinely up there with Messi and Ronaldo. Difference is of course that those guys have so far sustained it over 6 or 7 years rather than 3 or 4 months, which is why they are true greats and Rooney will always be a case of "what might have been". He's on the wane (pardon) now, it's been apparent for a good six months or so. Having come into the Everton first team as a fully-developed 16 year old, being 27 for him is like being early 30s for a lot of other players. I don't think we'll see anything like his best form again, not that what he's currently producing isn't perfectly decent in its own right.
Bert Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 The Rooney of Euro 2004 was the real Rooney. Don't care what anyone says, he's a world class footballer. Certainly not in the Messi mould but there's no doubt in my mind that he's in the top ten strikers in the world. Hopefully he can get back to just banging the goals in.
Fox92 Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 The Rooney of Euro 2004 was the real Rooney. Don't care what anyone says, he's a world class footballer. Certainly not in the Messi mould but there's no doubt in my mind that he's in the top ten strikers in the world. Hopefully he can get back to just banging the goals in. Yeah, I agree. Of course he's World Class.
Heart-Shaped Fox Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 Cant see how he is World Class at all, I certainly dont think he is, and hasnt performed at the top level internationally for 9 years. 10 better strikers than Rooney, or players who can be considered strikers like Messi: RVP Cavani Lewandowski Villa Ibrahimović Suarez Mario Gomez Falcao Messi Neymar Thats ten forwards, and i would even put the likes of Balotelli, Aguero, Tevez, Klose, Higuain, above him. And on perfromace last season, I'd ossibly add players like Lukaku or Benteke above him. Rooney can produce the odd bit of magic, but i think he has already peaked far too early.
Kitchandro Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 I'm of the other opinion, I think Fergie took that tracking back element out of his game and turned him into an out and out striker a couple of years ago, and that's made him a worse player. Before he was looking like he'd become something special, he'd track back and pick the ball up, play fantastic passes or take on half the opposition. England hadn't had a player like that for years. Fergie playing him as an out and out striker took that out of his game. We have plenty of players who can put the ball in the back of the net regularly in this country, what we needed was that player with the X-Factor. 6-8 years ago I thought that might be Rooney, now he's just another Defoe. Is that really what we wanted for England's best prospect in years? I mean thoe performances in Euro 2004, against Portugal etc. I think even before then he played against someone like Turkey and just took them apart, was all over the pitch taking players on, creating chances. That's now gone, and we're left with a fox in the box. I hope Moyes gives him free reign, lets RVP, Welbeck and Hernandez get on with getting 30 a season, and let Rooney get on with terrorising defences. I agree with most of that, but it's too late now. He's been playing much deeper since RVP arrived and it's not made him any better. Like you say he's lost the ability to take players on and make something out of nothing. Occassionally he'll whack a screamer in but he's pretty one dimensional now in comparison to his early quality. For the amount of money they could probably get for him they might as well sell him. He's not the main man anymore and rightly so, he's not even been guaranteed to start for a while. He's a shadow of his 18 year old self and has been living off that reputation since in some ways. He's been a good striker but people comparing him to Ronaldo and Messi has always been laughable. And that's without mentioning his mental and temperamental weaknesses that have plagued his career and made him look out of his depth when he's had to deal with the pressure of playing for his country. If he wasn't English people would see him for what he is, a hugely overrated has been who since his teen years was nothing more than a top goalscorer (and he's not even that anymore, he basically plays in midfield). Which is a completely different thing to being an all round world class player let alone one of the greatest players in the world.
foxfanazer Posted 9 July 2013 Posted 9 July 2013 Depends on people's individual definition of world class but for me no way is he! The fact that he hasn't nailed down a permanent position speaks volumes for me. If Fergie one minute fancies him as an out and out striker then all of a sudden a centre mid or just behind the strikers makes me think he hasn't really impressed in any position. There is no doubting he's a very good footballer but he always looks like he can't be arsed to me, especially for England! What Chelsea want with him is beyond me! Where would the play him? Mata occupies the space behind the striker/s and he in my opinion is far far better than Rooney. Also it's reported Chelsea are willing to match his 240k per week wages........240k?!?! Like many Emgland players from the last 10-15 years Rooney is another case of what might have been
Fox92 Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 I just never get why people don't consider Rooney world class, but they do Ronaldo, Messi etc? They've not done anymore than Rooney at International level.
Guest shearfox Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 Rooney is world class, he is a match winner can do something special when you least expect it... Add to the fact he has a good international scoring record and excellent club record you can't go wrong. I don't think he is top 10 but he is easily in the top 20 players in the world that is world class.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 I just never get why people don't consider Rooney world class, but they do Ronaldo, Messi etc? They've not done anymore than Rooney at International level. Ronaldo and Messi are obviously world class as they are the best 2 players in the world. How can they not be world class? Rooney is not really world class. If you were to pick a 23-man world squad, you would not put Rooney in it. I think Rooney was better as a number 9. He shouldn't be played as a number 10. #10's are advanced midfield playmakers like Riquelme, Zidane, Kaka etc. Rooney is a striker.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 13 July 2013 Author Posted 13 July 2013 I just never get why people don't consider Rooney world class, but they do Ronaldo, Messi etc? They've not done anymore than Rooney at International level. I know nothing about their respective national teams success but I bet theyve achieved more than us with Rooney in the side. Their managers do not revolve their team and game plan around them whereas we do, which makes us worse!
AKCJ Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 Name me one striker that can genuinely play anywhere from the Makalele role to playing on the last defender. He's world class. People just doubt him because he's a Scouser called Wayne. If he was Brazilian and called Roonaldo he'd be considered the greatest player ever.
MooseBreath Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 I just never get why people don't consider Rooney world class, but they do Ronaldo, Messi etc? They've not done anymore than Rooney at International level. You don't need to have done much at international level to be world class these days. If international level was all that mattered then Peter Crouch would be one of the best players in the world. Even so I disagree. Ronaldo and Messi have been quiet at international level, Rooney has been diabolical for nearly ten years.
AKCJ Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 I know nothing about their respective national teams success but I bet theyve achieved more than us with Rooney in the side. Their managers do not revolve their team and game plan around them whereas we do, which makes us worse! I've not seen enough of Messi in an Argentina side to comment. But Portugal play 100% through Ronaldo.
ScouseFox Posted 13 July 2013 Posted 13 July 2013 Well obviously, because he's arguably the best player in the world and one of the best to ever play the game, and their other players include Nani, Raul Mereiles and Hugo Almeida.
Fox92 Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Ronaldo and Messi are obviously world class as they are the best 2 players in the world. How can they not be world class? Rooney is not really world class. If you were to pick a 23-man world squad, you would not put Rooney in it. I think Rooney was better as a number 9. He shouldn't be played as a number 10. #10's are advanced midfield playmakers like Riquelme, Zidane, Kaka etc. Rooney is a striker. Messi and Ronaldo have been quiet at International level for many years. I'm not saying they arn't World Class, I just wanted people to clear something up. You don't (not referring to just you) consider Rooney world class because he doesn't deliver, yet Ronaldo and Messi are supposed to be World class despite them not doing more on the international stage. They've both been very influential in their club career though, as has Rooney, who continues to score in the big games for Manchester United (against Liverpool, against City and a goal in the European Cup final). If Rooney played for Brazil, or Argentina etc, everyone would love him. Rooney is World Class in my opinion. Not considered one of the greatest players ever (alongside Zidane, Cruyff, Pele etc) but at this moment in time, World Class.
Frost Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 If Rooney played for Brazil, or Argentina etc, everyone would love him. Rooney is World Class in my opinion. Not considered one of the greatest players ever (alongside Zidane, Cruyff, Pele etc) but at this moment in time, World Class. Why would everyone love him if he was Brazilian or Argentinian? Do explain. Just a general comment like that means nothing. Rooney WAS world class, but currently there's no indication he currently is. His career has been going backwards for a while now. Someone earlier up the page listed strikers much more lethal, and you can't really argue with any of them. Rooney's not world class, irrespective of what he's not achieved playing for England. Ronaldo & Messi are two of the best players ever.
Danizen Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Rooney reached his peak somewhere between 08 and 10. He'll never capture that form again. During that time he was one of the top five players in the world and he achieved almost everything he would want to achieve. It hasn't helped that he's come back from to training unfit and overweight in each of the last three seasons but he's in terminal decline and cannot be considered world class. People will say he's relatively young and could still have his best years ahead of him but there are tonnes of players who peak early and then just get bounced between clubs for the last few years of their careers. Most players peak between 26-30 but not all of them.
Kitchandro Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Are people kidding when they say Ronaldo hasn't done more on the world stage? He's not led his side to 2 semi finals and a final then, scoring several goals? As opposed to Rooney's 2 goals and no semi-finals? Playing woefully in every tournament since Euro 2004. Messi's been in 2 world cups, one of which he was used as a substitute, and looked world class in both of them.
ACF Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Clearly he's world class, he can score on a cold Tuesday night at Stoke.
Fox92 Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Why would everyone love him if he was Brazilian or Argentinian? Do explain. Just a general comment like that means nothing. Rooney WAS world class, but currently there's no indication he currently is. His career has been going backwards for a while now. Someone earlier up the page listed strikers much more lethal, and you can't really argue with any of them. Rooney's not world class, irrespective of what he's not achieved playing for England. Ronaldo & Messi are two of the best players ever. Don't know really, does mean nothing if I'm honest. I'm not debating he's better than that posted list above, I was just wanted to see people's take on the whole 'World Class' thing. I'm not one for saying Ronaldo and Messi are two of the best players ever either. They are good, yeah, but they arn't on that greats list yet with the likes of Cruyff, Pele, Zidane, Beckenbauer etc who were influential and excellent on the top stage (World Cup).
The Year Of The Fox Posted 14 July 2013 Author Posted 14 July 2013 Name me one striker that can genuinely play anywhere from the Makalele role to playing on the last defender. He's world class. People just doubt him because he's a Scouser called Wayne. If he was Brazilian and called Roonaldo he'd be considered the greatest player ever. Are you joking?? We have so many overrated English players as well. He is the prime one
AKCJ Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Are you joking?? We have so many overrated English players as well. He is the prime one Clearly he wouldn't be considered the greatest ever. But you get my point. As a nation we totally over hype our young players (Zaha prime example) and shoot down our better senior players.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 14 July 2013 Posted 14 July 2013 Messi and Ronaldo have been quiet at International level for many years. I'm not saying they arn't World Class, I just wanted people to clear something up. You don't (not referring to just you) consider Rooney world class because he doesn't deliver, yet Ronaldo and Messi are supposed to be World class despite them not doing more on the international stage. They've both been very influential in their club career though, as has Rooney, who continues to score in the big games for Manchester United (against Liverpool, against City and a goal in the European Cup final). If Rooney played for Brazil, or Argentina etc, everyone would love him. Rooney is World Class in my opinion. Not considered one of the greatest players ever (alongside Zidane, Cruyff, Pele etc) but at this moment in time, World Class. Being world class is determined by how good you are for your club, not your country. A world class player is one of the best players in his position in the world e.g. the 23-man world squad. Ronaldo and Messi are clearly the best players in their position in the world. Rooney is not. He was world class around 2009 though when he was banging them in. Now you would not say that Rooney is one of the best strikers in the world. You think of players like Falcao, Cavani, Lewandowski, Van Persie and Ibrahimovic.
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