Kitchandro Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Realistically, Newcastle would not have been relegated a few years back. This is football, With FFP running the championship, and a loss in attendance and 100m in tv revenue for clubs being relegated, the 25m parachute payment won't cover the wages. It's ok for a fan to say "we should risk it" Look at it for the manager point. He doesnt want to get relegated and have to sell his players, The owner doesnt want to go from profit to catastrophic loss in 1 season, but the fans don't think about that. just look back at 03/04, that season cost us 10 years of pain. all financial related knee jerk reactions. Which is exactly why lambert expressed his opinion on it, because villa are by no means safe. on paper they should be, but look at last season. Risk what?
Kitchandro Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 It's just logical. I know I say scrap the trophy which makes me automatically hated on here, even though we have hardly any chance of winning one for the foreseeable future. If we got to the prem, then played our first team in our cup matches, got injuries and got relegated, losing 100m in revenue, with premiership wages, getting fined by the FA, im sure we'd all be happy? No. At the current moment, villa spending all their energy on a cup is completely pointless. because going down will cost them too much more. Go up. Stay up. Solidify your team, then go for cups. Not go up. Spend big, Go for a cup, get relegated, and put yourself in financial turmoil in 1 season. Villa look like they could easily be in a relegation scrap this year, so I agree with lambert. and would hope that nigel would think the same. Oh wait. he does. It's common knowledge nigel has said "A cup run is nice but i'd rather we get promotion and earn our place in the top flight, then we look to stay in the division" He practically says that everytime someone mentions a cup. You get fvcking injuries in the shower you retard. Since when is it a risk for a footballer to play football? Christ almighty. Maybe I should take next week off work because I might not be 100% the week after. I mean, why risk it?
Fox92 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 The bits in bold are some of the stupidest things I've read on here in weeks. Firstly, if you were a Villa fan you'd be saying 'fvck off Lambert, we're Aston Villa not pissing Wigan, since when should we be accepting that we're struggling and that's a valid excuse not to take the cup seriously? Scottish w*nker'. Secondly, are you seriously suggesting taking the cup seriously gets you relegated? Don't be such a cretin. Being shit gets you relegated. 'What's the bloody point?' is another thing you say. Yeh, what is the bloody point of playing football if you've got no desire to win anything? If it's Alex McLeish, or anybody with a Birmingham City connection, then they say that. I don't get it. Because McLeish was at Birmingham, he got treated as an enemy from the first day he moved across the second City. Lambert, maybe a decent manager, but with Villa he has already been in a relegation battle and now accepts he might need more experience.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 You get fvcking injuries in the shower you retard. Since when is it a risk for a footballer to play football? Christ almighty. Maybe I should take next week off work because I might not be 100% the week after. I mean, why risk it? Ok so lets play schmeichel at stoke and lose our keeper.
Guest MattP Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Does winning the FA Cup automatically mean you get relegated these days?
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 The bits in bold are some of the stupidest things I've read on here in weeks. Firstly, if you were a Villa fan you'd be saying 'fvck off Lambert, we're Aston Villa not pissing Wigan, since when should we be accepting that we're struggling and that's a valid excuse not to take the cup seriously? Scottish w*nker'. Secondly, are you seriously suggesting taking the cup seriously gets you relegated? Don't be such a cretin. Being shit gets you relegated. 'What's the bloody point?' is another thing you say. Yeh, what is the bloody point of playing football if you've got no desire to win anything? Risk what? Having too many injuries.. villa have already lost players to injuries in cup games this season, as well as being off form. You must hate nigel for having the same opinion on the cup. cups are the 2nd most important thing. For villa, 1st Making sure they survive/build. cups 2nd For us 1st promotion 2nd staying up 3rd cups. If you seriously would say "I dont care if we dont get promoted but win the fa cup" you must be mad. If you would say "I dont mind getting relegated if we win the fa cup" you're mad. Villa are no way near secure, and have not been BEFORE lambert got there, Lambert takes the same approach with villa that nige does here, young and hungry, but for him its not working out at the moment, just as for us, it didnt last year. and could still go wrong for us. NIGEL PEARSON HAS SAID HE WOULD SACRIFICE CUPS FOR THE LEAGUE. Promotion to leicester is worth 90-100m survival for villa is worth more. It's no secret to anyone lambert has admitted they need more strength in depth, and is looking to add there.. But if you think playing an extra load of cup games every season doesnt have an effect on players? you're insane.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Does winning the FA Cup automatically mean you get relegated these days? I didnt say that matt.. please don't start twisting words... I said it gives a risk... If you are hovering above relegation, with a small squad and injuries, the cup is 2nd priority... choosing to go all guns blazing for the cup with the risk of losing players or tiring them and getting relegated is pointless is it not? So what do we do if we play kasp and he gets injured even more? and also knockaert gets a broken leg in a challenge.. (Could happen any game i know.. but could have been avoided if he was not playing a cup match) Then what? this is the risk involved. Like I said. I'd happily see us get promoted before we start really challenging for any cups.
Manwell Pablo Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 The thing about his point that gets me is that the FA cup doesn't really have a massive effect on your fixture list until the later rounds, the FA make allowances for Prem clubs as they expect most of them to get to at least round 4/5. And they don't have another league game for 9 days....... and they've got a shit league one club at home.......if you start having to play replays then fair enough if it will become annoying but there is an easy way to avoid that, get the job done.
RonnieTodger Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I hate that attitude. All about money. If we were a mid-table Premier League team, I'd much rather we were in with a chance of winning the cup, than going for the top half. Which memory lasts longer, an FA Cup win or an underwhelming Premier League stint?
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 The thing about his point that gets me is that the FA cup doesn't really have a massive effect on your fixture list until the later rounds, the FA make allowances for Prem clubs as they expect most of them to get to at least round 4/5. And they don't have another league game for 9 days....... and they've got a shit league one club at home.......if you start having to play replays then fair enough if it will become annoying but there is an easy way to avoid that, get the job done. Toward the end of the season where you need players to be at physical peaks! the cup is never easy
Corky Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 It's just logical. I know I say scrap the trophy which makes me automatically hated on here, even though we have hardly any chance of winning one for the foreseeable future. If we got to the prem, then played our first team in our cup matches, got injuries and got relegated, losing 100m in revenue, with premiership wages, getting fined by the FA, im sure we'd all be happy? I would hope that we would have structures in place to cope with all eventualities, so if we were relegated we wouldn't be hit too hard financially. This isn't about putting all your energy into winning a cup, it's about not totally disregarding it and being happy about being knocked out. There is no excuse for not taking a match seriously and injuries can occur at any time.
Kitchandro Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Ok so lets play schmeichel at stoke and lose our keeper. No because he's injured. Would you play him in the league if he was injured then?
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I hate that attitude. All about money. If we were a mid-table Premier League team, I'd much rather we were in with a chance of winning the cup, than going for the top half. Which memory lasts longer, an FA Cup win or an underwhelming Premier League stint? thats what i am trying to say!! People are not realizing this, Villa are 2 games off the relegation spots, that's not mid table! and with villa having injuries, as well as a tight squad (Like us last season) they cannot afford to go balls in on the cup and **** up their chances of staying in the division.. They are by no means safe and lambert knows it. If villa were 5-10 points better off. they should be all guns blazing for it, but they are not. which is why I agree with lambert. If lambert played his first team for all their cup fixtures, it could potentially have big implications toward the latter end of the season.. I'm not saying that it will mean they automatically get relegated, but if you wanted to take the risk of relegation by going all out for the fa cup.. with the potential loss of hundreds of millions if you failed to stay up (which is not certain) Brave. Hope nigel doesnt think the same. When you have players on 60k per week like villa do, it's imperative that you have mid table as a goal in the league.. they don't have even that right now. so IMO the league is their main focus.
Manwell Pablo Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Toward the end of the season where you need players to be at physical peaks! the cup is never easy If you get towards the end of the season and he's still in the cup I can guarantee you he'll change his tune.
Mike the Metal Ed Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Ok so lets play schmeichel at stoke and lose our keeper. In that case he probably shouldn't train, and be chauffeured door to door in a bubble wrap limo. He could get injured on Saturday, he could get injured against Derby, he could get injured at Belvoir Drive, he could get injured in his kitchen like Dave Beasent. It doesn't matter what game he plays in, there's a chance of him getting injured, and if he does, we'll quickly get somebody on loan.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 No because he's injured. Would you play him in the league if he was injured then? No... Of course I would not. there is more chance of him getting injured or tired the more games he plays, and when we are top of the league, and gunning for promotion, it causes more problems than solves.. I would love to see us have a good cup run as we did... But if you gave me a choice of cup or premiership. premiership hands down. Lambert was asked that. and he agreed. Pearson was asked that. he agreed. the cup is for mid table teams who have nothing to play for... 6 points above relegation.. villa at the moment are playing to scrape back up the league. which is why he answered how he did.
Mike the Metal Ed Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 N.B. We went through six goalkeepers in 08/09 and still got promoted as champions.
Guest MattP Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I didnt say that matt.. please don't start twisting words... I said it gives a risk... If you are hovering above relegation, with a small squad and injuries, the cup is 2nd priority... choosing to go all guns blazing for the cup with the risk of losing players or tiring them and getting relegated is pointless is it not? So what do we do if we play kasp and he gets injured even more? and also knockaert gets a broken leg in a challenge.. (Could happen any game i know.. but could have been avoided if he was not playing a cup match) Then what? this is the risk involved. Like I said. I'd happily see us get promoted before we start really challenging for any cups. But it probably doesnt make any difference, as MP says until the later rounds the cup takes over what you would be playing as normal league fixtures anyway. If it was something like the JPT on a Tuesday night I'd agree, happily dump it, but the FA Cup is a magnificent tournament full of history and every team should want to win it. It's a damning indictment of the Premier League now that money and the possibility of it having a slight effect on you being relegated would mean you didn't want it at all.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 In that case he probably shouldn't train, and be chauffeured door to door in a bubble wrap limo. He could get injured on Saturday, he could get injured against Derby, he could get injured at Belvoir Drive, he could get injured in his kitchen like Dave Beasent. It doesn't matter what game he plays in, there's a chance of him getting injured, and if he does, we'll quickly get somebody on loan. Jesus you lot love to twist words. go back to my original post and read it, this shit has got out of hand with 7 different people all quoting different stuff. My opinion is the same as lamberts. if you are trying to get to the top, or steer away from the bottom, league over cup. If you are mid table and safe, cups all day. Villa are not safe. People have been talking about "resting vardy" "resting nugent" "resting king" "resting kockaert" then on here they expect lambert to go all guns blazing for the cup? If we didnt "rest" players, we would get injuries and tiredness... How many changes did we have 5? Why? It's only a football match, they shouldnt be tired... That was a league match not even an extra game! tiredness, knocks and injuries come from playing lots of matches without rest. This is what villa can not deal with at the moment as their squad has been bare with injuries to an already tight squad... which is why I agree with lambert. I would rather we won the league than the cup this season, and next season if we go up, i'd rather we focus on staying up than a good cup run, unless it's given to us on a plate. N.B. We went through six goalkeepers in 08/09 and still got promoted as champions. Big difference when you are talking about not even winning £1m from league one... to potentially losing 100m in the premiership.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 But it probably doesnt make any difference, as MP says until the later rounds the cup takes over what you would be playing as normal league fixtures anyway. If it was something like the JPT on a Tuesday night I'd agree, happily dump it, but the FA Cup is a magnificent tournament full of history and every team should want to win it. It's a damning indictment of the Premier League now that money and the possibility of it having a slight effect on you being relegated would mean you didn't want it at all. I didnt say I wouldnt want it at all... I'd take it if we had a good enough chance... but if we didnt, and we got relegated because of tiredness, injuries, etc etc due to a hard season (Look at us last year) that would cost 100m+.. as well as fines and huge losses.. How long would that hang over our heads? Apart from the 75m sven got us into, weve had 25m hanging over us since 2004!
Guest MattP Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I didnt say I wouldnt want it at all... I'd take it if we had a good enough chance... but if we didnt, and we got relegated because of tiredness, injuries, etc etc due to a hard season (Look at us last year) that would cost 100m+.. as well as fines and huge losses.. How long would that hang over our heads? Apart from the 75m sven got us into, weve had 25m hanging over us since 2004! You have sort of answered your own point here. That happened last year and we had no cup run whatsoever, all the excuses about the cup costing you because of tiredness, injuries etc are just that, excuses because in all probability the fact was probably you werent good enough to stay up or go up in the first place so the cup can be used as a cracking excuse to try and hide your own failures.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 You have sort of answered your own point here. That happened last year and we had no cup run whatsoever, all the excuses about the cup costing you because of tiredness, injuries etc are just that, excuses because in all probability the fact was probably you werent good enough to stay up or go up in the first place so the cup can be used as a cracking excuse to try and hide your own failures. and to an extent I agree, And I am not denying it, And the general agreement by our fans was "I'd rather we focus on the league" And this season! Our focus, has been that we would rather focus on the league! which is what lambert is saying! His squad is small, (Like us last year) and its no lie he needs more depth and experience (Like us last year) And so far to me its been blatantly obvious they've not been good enough to be in the top 10 this season, and unless they strengthen will be a tough season for them.... So why would he want to risk making it even harder for his injury hit squad by going all guns in the cup which could potentially suffer in the league... If you play 30 games in a season, you are more likely to be fresher than if you played 40.. I know what everyone is saying... but from villas point of view I agree with lambert. and pearson says the same about us. League over cup. the longevity of the club lies in the hands of going up for us, and staying up. not staying in the championship and winning the fa cup... Because every season down here, we make a loss... If villa went down, every year they are down here, they'll lose a fortune as well as lose players and get fines, so for them it's priority that they use their energy and top players to get up that table! Can you see where I am coming from? I agree with you to an extent
The Horse's Mouth Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Surprised at some of the responses tbh, the FA Cup is seriously tedious and I'm not at all fussed about it. I do however think people and managers would care more about it if there wasn't two domestic cups.
Guest MattP Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Yeah I can. Its the was the way he has worded it that is probably more of an issue than anything.
foxfanazer Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 And this season! Our focus, has been that we would rather focus on the league!We got to the Quarter finals!
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