Fox92 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Read these comments yesterday. Not suprised by them, but quite disappointed if I'm honest... It's the FA Cup; the greatest Cup competition. It's something a club like Villa should be looking to win, what a chance for a trophy for him. Who's fault is it that Villa's squad is young? Who's fault is it that they are rubbish and might be in a relegation battle again? Yeah, Lambert's. He shouldn't be speaking on behalf of other clubs "if you asked the majority of them". Cloughie should use this as his team talk tomorrow. Hope they beat Villa. At least Sheffield United will get some money, might actually want to play in the competition and could get a bigger club ala Manchester United or Liverpool in the next round.
Mack Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Whilst I agree that the FA Cup is a sacred part of English Football as a club we could well do without it this season for me.
Fox92 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Whilst I agree that the FA Cup is a sacred part of English Football as a club we could well do without it this season for me. I agree at the minute. We're in a position where we don't need loads of games building up (I know we have 6 days before Derby after Stoke though). I just think that clubs like Villa, who just aim for top half Premier League or whatever, should see FA Cup and League Cup as a chance of winning something, surely? Same applies if we ever got promoted. Because we don't have enough power to compete with the top 8 clubs, we'd be looking at just trying to stay in the division before improving on that, so I'd expect us to take domestic cups seriously. Look at what Swansea have achieved. They are the benchmark imo. ... The day Leicester City win the FA Cup, will be a good day! I hope we win it before I die.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Completely agree... I will not worry about any cup games until we are midtable in the prem. And to those saying "Lambert should be more interested as its the only thing he can win and he knows it" If you actually read the post and used that thing that inside your skull, you would see his reasoning... 2 poor results for villa and they are in a relegation fight, which will cost the club 100m on relegation (Average revenue for a championship club is 100m less than premiership) as well as the FFP implications. And he quite clearly stated he does not have a big squad!! If I was a villa fan i'd say **** the trophy keep us up. and as a Leicester fan, I'd much rather we focus on the league and guarantee we get promoted. we have hardly any chance of winning a trophy so why use valuable first team members? We hardly have the biggest squad in the league... Why would you risk any first team players in the cup when we are getting closer to the premiership? And if we have to put 2nd string out to save those 1st team players, whats the bloody point? It's only logical thinking in my opinion, the teams that should be pushing for these trophies are the teams in the top 8/9/10 (Even though at the moment theres only 6 points between relegation and 10th. For the sake of villa losing 100m in revenue, then losing another 50m+ next season and getting fined, having to ship out high earners, then rebuild, then hopefully on promotion spending their promotion money to the premiership, just for the FA cup? That trophy could potentially cost the club 150m+ (Depending on attendances, sponsorships, wages, revenues etc etc) Is that really worth it? Would rather the owner give me 100m to spend to stay up and challenge for top 6 than lose it for the fa cup....
Captain... Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Whilst I agree that the FA Cup is a sacred part of English Football as a club we could well do without it this season for me. I don't think anyone will be too upset if we give a good account of ourselves but lose tomorrow, but I would love it if we beat Stoke, we have a week until Derby so it shouldn't impact that game too much, it's when it starts meaning we have to re-arrange games that it becomes a problem. When you look at the cup in Spain, it is always during the week and always 2 legs so never have a replay and generally taken seriously. You don't hear complaints of a fixture pile up, but that is because it is given the respect it deserves and not crammed in around the league. It should also be on the BBC, ITV is crap, BBC always gave it the respect it deserved, would show the smaller clubs and the interesting match ups on BBC1, not just Man Utd and Arsenal and help build up some excitement.
Voll Blau Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Completely agree... I will not worry about any cup games until we are midtable in the prem. And to those saying "Lambert should be more interested as its the only thing he can win and he knows it" If you actually read the post and used that thing that inside your skull, you would see his reasoning... 2 poor results for villa and they are in a relegation fight, which will cost the club 100m on relegation (Average revenue for a championship club is 100m less than premiership) as well as the FFP implications. And he quite clearly stated he does not have a big squad!! If I was a villa fan i'd say **** the trophy keep us up. and as a Leicester fan, I'd much rather we focus on the league and guarantee we get promoted. we have hardly any chance of winning a trophy so why use valuable first team members? We hardly have the biggest squad in the league... Why would you risk any first team players in the cup when we are getting closer to the premiership? And if we have to put 2nd string out to save those 1st team players, whats the bloody point? It's only logical thinking in my opinion, the teams that should be pushing for these trophies are the teams in the top 8/9/10 (Even though at the moment theres only 6 points between relegation and 10th. For the sake of villa losing 100m in revenue, then losing another 50m+ next season and getting fined, having to ship out high earners, then rebuild, then hopefully on promotion spending their promotion money to the premiership, just for the FA cup? That trophy could potentially cost the club 150m+ (Depending on attendances, sponsorships, wages, revenues etc etc) Is that really worth it? Would rather the owner give me 100m to spend to stay up and challenge for top 6 than lose it for the fa cup.... I follow Leicester in the hope we win silverware, not to cheer decent looking spreadsheets or finishing 15th in the Prem year after year. All this Promised Land bollocks is such shite. Of course I want us to be playing in the top division, but the two Cup competitions are realistically our only chance of silverware.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I follow Leicester in the hope we win silverware, not to cheer decent looking spreadsheets or finishing 15th in the Prem year after year. All this Promised Land bollocks is such shite. Of course I want us to be playing in the top division, but the two Cup competitions are realistically our only chance of silverware. So if we get promoted this season, You would rather see us get relegated and lose upto 120m+ for the FA cup, then see the backlash of that loss for the following 5+ years unless we bounce straight back up (do i need to remind you of peter taylor? or sven?) which after having to offload the top earners is a lottery.... Or would you rather we solidified ourselves in the top 10/12 and THEN go for silverware? Put it this way, would you rather be stoke going for the cup, or crystal palace. I'd rather be stoke. Unfortunately only 2 poor results will put villa in a relegation fight with a small squad, therefore what he says is a completely logical reasoning for preferring to stay up. Wigan are a prime example. They will be in the championship next year too... Small squad, Relegation battle every season, Won the Cup, Got relegated. lost a fortune. Fortunately we have the funds to keep us up, but id rather we achieve it before worrying about the FA cup. Sound to me IMO like you are trying to run before you can walk.
davieG Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 So if we get promoted this season, You would rather see us get relegated and lose upto 120m+ for the FA cup, then see the backlash of that loss for the following 5+ years unless we bounce straight back up (do i need to remind you of peter taylor? or sven?) which after having to offload the top earners is a lottery.... Or would you rather we solidified ourselves in the top 10/12 and THEN go for silverware? Put it this way, would you rather be stoke going for the cup, or crystal palace. I'd rather be stoke. Unfortunately only 2 poor results will put villa in a relegation fight with a small squad, therefore what he says is a completely logical reasoning for preferring to stay up. Wigan are a prime example. They will be in the championship next year too... Small squad, Relegation battle every season, Won the Cup, Got relegated. lost a fortune. Fortunately we have the funds to keep us up, but id rather we achieve it before worrying about the FA cup. Sound to me IMO like you are trying to run before you can walk. Using Sven and Taylor to make your point is a bit extreme. The secret to getting promoted and staying up yet still preserving your financial status is not to go over board with spending and to have player contracts that include reductions for relegation. Clubs like LCFC can never consolidate their position in the PL with any certainty. LCFC were everyone's example of how to survive in the PL in the 90s top 10 finishes, League Cups but it only takes the manager or a couple of star players to be enticed away and you soon slip down the PL table to the Championship, it's the nature of the beast that is the PL. You only have to look at how many clubs in the Championship have played in the PL in it's relatively short existence. No one remembers you being an also ran in PL but winning the FA Cup will last in fan's memories for a long long time, Even under MON fans remember our cup wins much more than they remember the top ten finishes Don't be surprised to see Swansea back in the PL in the not to distant future.
AndWhat? Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Not sure if we could do it but give the fourth place CL spot to the FA Cup winners and you restore every bit of prestige it yearns for. Was just about to post this. I think Gary Lineker suggested this a few seasons ago.
Captain... Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Using Sven and Taylor to make your point is a bit extreme. The secret to getting promoted and staying up yet still preserving your financial status is not to go over board with spending and to have player contracts that include reductions for relegation. Clubs like LCFC can never consolidate their position in the PL with any certainty. LCFC were everyone's example of how to survive in the PL in the 90s top 10 finishes, League Cups but it only takes the manager or a couple of star players to be enticed away and you soon slip down the PL table to the Championship, it's the nature of the beast that is the PL. You only have to look at how many clubs in the Championship have played in the PL in it's relatively short existence. No one remembers you being an also ran in PL but winning the FA Cup will last in fan's memories for a long long time, Even under MON fans remember our cup wins much more than they remember the top ten finishes Don't be surprised to see Swansea back in the PL in the not to distant future. No it's not, you silly, teams only get relegated if they win the FA cup, look at Wigan, won the FA cup, got relegated, that is why we should never try and win the FA cup, and focus all our energies on the league, then we will never get relegated, football is so simple, if everyone focused on the league and not on the cup then nobody would ever get relegated. Just look at last season, we didn't take the FA cup tie with Huddersfield seriously and after we got knocked out went on an unbelieveable run of form, changed our season that, and we didn't even come close to getting relegated.
AndWhat? Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Besides, if we win the FA cup we can finally get triangle corner flags!
The Blur Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Anyone know which FA cup matches will be on ITV this weekend? I made this point last year and I am going to say it again- in the theory, FA Cup will always be a distraction- you are either in a title race (Man City et al) European race (Spurs and Man Utd *chuckle* et al) relegation battle (Norwich,Fulham,Sheff Wed et al) or trying to get promoted (yours truly, Derby,Brentford,Fleetwood blah) so unless you are truly stuck in the middle of the table then it is a distraction so we might as well try to embrace it and try to use it to our advantage-try out one or two youngsters etc.
Captain... Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Third Round ProperSaturday 4 January 2014Blackburn Rovers v Manchester City - 12.45pm, Live on BT SportArsenal v Tottenham Hotspur - 5.15pm, Live on ITV Sunday 5 January 2014Nottingham Forest v West Ham United - 12noon, Live on ITVDerby County v Chelsea - 2.15pm, Live on BT SportManchester United v Swansea City - 4.30pm, Live on BT Sport The FA live broadcast fee is £144,000 per club. The FA prize fund payment is £67,500. Highlights on ITV:Rochdale v Leeds UnitedMacclesfield Town v Sheffield WednesdayGrimsby Town v Huddersfield Town The FA fee for designated highlights is £6,750 per club.
Corky Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 We currently are a different case, as we are playing for another trophy in the Championship title. I would understand if Pearson prioritised that but I'd hope we give a good account of ourselves at Stoke. But Aston Villa realistically have mid-table to aim for in the Premier League. They should be good enough to survive, but are giving their fans little to get excited about, finishing most games with about 30% possession. So a cup run may get the fans onside and I don't see how winning games can be a bad thing, especially when you aren't doing it regularly in the league. It might just give you a bit of confidence and enjoyment.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Using Sven and Taylor to make your point is a bit extreme. The secret to getting promoted and staying up yet still preserving your financial status is not to go over board with spending and to have player contracts that include reductions for relegation. Clubs like LCFC can never consolidate their position in the PL with any certainty. LCFC were everyone's example of how to survive in the PL in the 90s top 10 finishes, League Cups but it only takes the manager or a couple of star players to be enticed away and you soon slip down the PL table to the Championship, it's the nature of the beast that is the PL. You only have to look at how many clubs in the Championship have played in the PL in it's relatively short existence. No one remembers you being an also ran in PL but winning the FA Cup will last in fan's memories for a long long time, Even under MON fans remember our cup wins much more than they remember the top ten finishes Don't be surprised to see Swansea back in the PL in the not to distant future. the financial implications of the taylor era have lasted 10 years, and if it were not for the owners, would have got worse without wiping svens wrong doings The financial implications of being relegated are catastrophic unless you go up first time of asking, we have proven how hard this is. Aston villa have the quality to finish mid table, but the reality is that 2 poor results will see them in a relegation scrap. I would rather us survive, and build (A La Stoke) than go for silverware. Not just think, Right we're in the prem, lets win a trophy and sacrifice a bigger risk of relegation. Can I just reiterate the fact that kasper is injured and we hardly have a backup? If he was injured at stoke there would be uproar for playing a first team player in the cup as we have no suitable backup. this is the case with villa, and this is why lambert said what he did. I agree. For a team 6 points off the drop, the league is the most important thing.
Manwell Pablo Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 But realistically Villa won't go down or finish in the top 4. Besides, how hard is it playing a bloody FA Cup match? It's either that or have a week off. Says you, their only six points off it, you wont find many managers outside the top six who's first and main priority for any given season is to get 40 points and everything else can go **** itself. if they were 7-10 points better off maybe
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Realistically, Newcastle would not have been relegated a few years back. This is football, With FFP running the championship, and a loss in attendance and 100m in tv revenue for clubs being relegated, the 25m parachute payment won't cover the wages. It's ok for a fan to say "we should risk it" Look at it for the manager point. He doesnt want to get relegated and have to sell his players, The owner doesnt want to go from profit to catastrophic loss in 1 season, but the fans don't think about that. just look back at 03/04, that season cost us 10 years of pain. all financial related knee jerk reactions. Which is exactly why lambert expressed his opinion on it, because villa are by no means safe. on paper they should be, but look at last season.
Guest MattP Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 That season didn't cost us years of pain employing one crap manager after the other did. We went up first time of asking the season after administration.
Jordan Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Who's fault is it that Villa's squad is young? Who's fault is it that they are rubbish and might be in a relegation battle again? Yeah, Lambert's. He shouldn't be speaking on behalf of other clubs "if you asked the majority of them". That's unfair to blame everything on Lambert. Randy Lerner took a big hit during the recent global recession. He already sold credit card company MBNA to Bank of America, and he's cut expenses elsewhere, particularly at Villa, where he can't afford to keep bankrolling attempts to finish in a European spot. Villa really underperformed under McLeish with really high wage bills, and I'm certain that Lambert has been working under orders to control costs. Sure enough, Villa's wage bill has been slashed over the past two seasons.While Lambert's comments are disappointing, I don't think he's being a ****--I think he's just doing the job his boss set him out to do. I think many of you are correct that things like Lambert's comments aren't the problem, but rather a symptom of a larger ailment in the English game. As for giving the FA Cup winner the fourth Champions League place, that proposal would never even reach Platini's desk. Hell, it would never even get out of London, because there is no chance the Premier League would allow the FA or UEFA to take away one of its places without a vicious fight. The way the Premier League and Champions League are run, the mindset of English football has changed to make fourth place almost like a trophy, to borrow an idea from Arsène Wenger.
foxfanazer Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I agree Jordan. Hated the last couple of season's with Arsenal and Spurs both trying to get the fourth champions league spot. They advertise it as 'the race fourth place', well whoopdy fooking do
Stan Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 the financial implications of the taylor era have lasted 10 years, and if it were not for the owners, would have got worse without wiping svens wrong doings The financial implications of being relegated are catastrophic unless you go up first time of asking, we have proven how hard this is. Aston villa have the quality to finish mid table, but the reality is that 2 poor results will see them in a relegation scrap. I would rather us survive, and build (A La Stoke) than go for silverware. Not just think, Right we're in the prem, lets win a trophy and sacrifice a bigger risk of relegation. Can I just reiterate the fact that kasper is injured and we hardly have a backup? If he was injured at stoke there would be uproar for playing a first team player in the cup as we have no suitable backup. this is the case with villa, and this is why lambert said what he did. I agree. For a team 6 points off the drop, the league is the most important thing. Jesus. It's a good job we didn't go for that League Cup win back in 1996/7.
Soar Fox Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 I agree Jordan. Hated the last couple of season's with Arsenal and Spurs both trying to get the fourth champions league spot. They advertise it as 'the race fourth place', well whoopdy fooking do The way Arsenal fans & players celebrated finishing 4th you'd have thought they had won the champions league.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 That season didn't cost us years of pain employing one crap manager after the other did. We went up first time of asking the season after administration. And until recently, we still had 15-20m of debt hanging over our heads from that period. Jesus. It's a good job we didn't go for that League Cup win back in 1996/7. We wouldnt of if the financial implications were so strong... Getting relegated in those days didnt cause much of a problem compared today.
cityfanlee23 Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 It's just logical. I know I say scrap the trophy which makes me automatically hated on here, even though we have hardly any chance of winning one for the foreseeable future. If we got to the prem, then played our first team in our cup matches, got injuries and got relegated, losing 100m in revenue, with premiership wages, getting fined by the FA, im sure we'd all be happy? No. At the current moment, villa spending all their energy on a cup is completely pointless. because going down will cost them too much more. Go up. Stay up. Solidify your team, then go for cups. Not go up. Spend big, Go for a cup, get relegated, and put yourself in financial turmoil in 1 season. Villa look like they could easily be in a relegation scrap this year, so I agree with lambert. and would hope that nigel would think the same. Oh wait. he does. It's common knowledge nigel has said "A cup run is nice but i'd rather we get promotion and earn our place in the top flight, then we look to stay in the division" He practically says that everytime someone mentions a cup.
Kitchandro Posted 3 January 2014 Posted 3 January 2014 Completely agree... I will not worry about any cup games until we are midtable in the prem. And to those saying "Lambert should be more interested as its the only thing he can win and he knows it" If you actually read the post and used that thing that inside your skull, you would see his reasoning... 2 poor results for villa and they are in a relegation fight, which will cost the club 100m on relegation (Average revenue for a championship club is 100m less than premiership) as well as the FFP implications. And he quite clearly stated he does not have a big squad!! If I was a villa fan i'd say **** the trophy keep us up. and as a Leicester fan, I'd much rather we focus on the league and guarantee we get promoted. we have hardly any chance of winning a trophy so why use valuable first team members? We hardly have the biggest squad in the league... Why would you risk any first team players in the cup when we are getting closer to the premiership? And if we have to put 2nd string out to save those 1st team players, whats the bloody point? It's only logical thinking in my opinion, the teams that should be pushing for these trophies are the teams in the top 8/9/10 (Even though at the moment theres only 6 points between relegation and 10th. For the sake of villa losing 100m in revenue, then losing another 50m+ next season and getting fined, having to ship out high earners, then rebuild, then hopefully on promotion spending their promotion money to the premiership, just for the FA cup? That trophy could potentially cost the club 150m+ (Depending on attendances, sponsorships, wages, revenues etc etc) Is that really worth it? Would rather the owner give me 100m to spend to stay up and challenge for top 6 than lose it for the fa cup.... The bits in bold are some of the stupidest things I've read on here in weeks. Firstly, if you were a Villa fan you'd be saying 'fvck off Lambert, we're Aston Villa not pissing Wigan, since when should we be accepting that we're struggling and that's a valid excuse not to take the cup seriously? Scottish w*nker'. Secondly, are you seriously suggesting taking the cup seriously gets you relegated? Don't be such a cretin. Being shit gets you relegated. 'What's the bloody point?' is another thing you say. Yeh, what is the bloody point of playing football if you've got no desire to win anything?
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