Churchill Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 The one thing i did admire Ferguson for was he always tried to bring through good young english players e.g Scholes,Beckham,Neville etc. Where as your Chelsea's and Man City's ignore there youth system so to speak and just look to buy the next world class player for 50+ million.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Only thing is this is over 25 years! Every team at the top needs to do this... They say that you have "3 squads" or "4 squads" Alex ferguson used 3-4 squads in his time, and personally think he done very well... especially as they sell quite well aswell... Liverpool have spent 300-350m in the last 5 years.. which united have spent over around 10 years In the last 10 seasons, Here is the spendings and trophies won in that time: Manchester City, £572 million — 3 trophies Chelsea, £673 million — 12 trophies Man city, £572 m illion - 3 trophies (Although we know that is over 4 years not 10) Liverpool, £414 million — 6 trophies Tottenham hotspur £353 million - 1 trophy Manchester united £352 million - 16 trophies - 38 including all trophies like Community shield, world club cup etc. Arsenal, £214 million — 4 trophies Aston Villa, £201 million — 0 trophies Sunderland, £187 million — 0 trophies Newcastle United, £174 million — 1 trophy Manchester united have spent Less than most of its close rivals, but the ones it has spent more than (Arsenal for example) they have won far more trophies. which IMO is not "Buying" the league, As spending 30m on players is needed nowadays to have any chance. Wigan have even spent £110 million I think to have challenged the world triphies for so long.. and have achieved 38 trophies in 25 years having spent less than most of their close rivals, Is the way to run a football club. Source: Deloitte Market research company. Jesus Christ. SUNDERLAND have spent nearly £20mil a season for the last ten years? This league's ridiculous. I'd love to see how much the equivalents abroad (Osasuna, Nuremberg, Genoa, I don't know) have spent. Clubs in this country waste so much money it's unreal.
Fox92 Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Jesus Christ. SUNDERLAND have spent nearly £20mil a season for the last ten years? This league's ridiculous. I'd love to see how much the equivalents abroad (Osasuna, Nuremberg, Genoa, I don't know) have spent. Clubs in this country waste so much money it's unreal. This is true. Some of the transfers are ridiculous... Stewart Downing £20million, Danny Graham £5million, Phil Jones £16.5million etc
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 This is true. Some of the transfers are ridiculous... Stewart Downing £20million, Danny Graham £5million, Phil Jones £16.5million etc It's complacency and nothing else. Complacency bred from having too much to spend - and it'll only get worse with this new TV deal.
ScouseFox Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Jesus Christ. SUNDERLAND have spent nearly £20mil a season for the last ten years? This league's ridiculous. I'd love to see how much the equivalents abroad (Osasuna, Nuremberg, Genoa, I don't know) have spent. Clubs in this country waste so much money it's unreal. If you look at who they've sold too (to get a net spend) I doubt it's much more than a few million a season. Bent (nearly £20m), Henderson (around £16m), Sessegnon (£6m), Gyan (£6m) etc all in the past few years. Think they sold Kenwyne Jones for nearly £10m too. Not to add all the other bit part players they mugged teams off by getting £2m+... *cough* Waghorn *cough*. Looking just at what's been spent is a very dodgy way to judge clubs in the transfer market, really.
Captain... Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Getting back to the point about United fans, I've been impressed with the fans in the ground, they have really tried to back Moyes and support the team, when you hear the Arsenal fans booing a 0-0 that keeps them second in the league while united continue to cheer on the players despite being in 7th. Credit to the fans. As for Fergie screwing United by recommending Moyes, that is nonsense, he knew the team was on the decline and got out on a high, we all knew whoever took over would struggle without some major spending, too many fading and avergae players. Moyes was probably a poor choice in hindsight, someone like Mourinho coming in would have demanded a massive transfer budget and insisted on certain changes and stamp his mark on the club, whereas you get the impression Moyes thought he could carry on where Fergie left off.
Leicesterpool Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 It's certain there's going to be alot of in's and out's at Man U this summer and without a doubt i think that's the only way both Man U and Moyes can move forward. Vidic, Valencia, Young, Nani, Giggs, Ferdinand, Rooney, Hernandez, Evra & Anderson all leaving this summer, but it would be interesting to see who Moyes will replace them with? Will he bring in young future prospect players in or bring in all ready developed world class quality players. At the end of the day it just boyle down the fact whoever Moyes can attract! Also Wenger refused to talk about bringing Van Persie back to Arsenal. So something could happen there aswell!
Father Ted Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 I think they should be more worried about their better players leaving in the summer rather than clearing out the rubbish and rebuilding. Judas RVP will be gone, I reckon and Rooney has demanded to leave before many times. Can see Chelsea approaching for one, if not both of them. After that, they really don't have much at all.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 I think they should be more worried about their better players leaving in the summer rather than clearing out the rubbish and rebuilding. Judas RVP will be gone, I reckon and Rooney has demanded to leave before many times. Can see Chelsea approaching for one, if not both of them. After that, they really don't have much at all. Time to start investing in the future. Get Lukaku as part of a deal if either of them goes and look for genuinely talented players rather than overhyped six-months of form players. I fail to believe there ain't some sort of talent available to them even if they don't qualify for Europe.
Libertine Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 They'd probably be better off with RVP leaving anyway, as ridiculous as it sounds. Then they can play Rooney up top (as the main man as he clearly wants), with Mata centrally behind him rather than out on the left. Bit undecided on Moyes' reign so far.To an extent I do agree the squad needs major change, and anyone taking over from SAF is going to appear lesser in comparison, that's not his fault. But he's clearly not got a plan B at the minute. They need a lot more pace in the squad, going forwards especially. Mata is slow and RVP is getting on. Young cuts inside constantly and Valencia is inconsistent despite his pace. If they were doing this badly any previous year I'd be loving it, but I kind of want Moyes to succeed there as he's got the hardest job in the world taking over after SAF.
Leicesterpool Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Time to start investing in the future. Get Lukaku as part of a deal if either of them goes and look for genuinely talented players rather than overhyped six-months of form players. I fail to believe there ain't some sort of talent available to them even if they don't qualify for Europe. I actually i can see Lukaku joining Man U to be honest plus I won't be surprised if he tries to go in for Benteke aswell, so he can have Belgium strike force up front. Van Persie to chelsea i'm not so sure about, i can see Van Persie returning to Arsenal.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 They'd probably be better off with RVP leaving anyway, as ridiculous as it sounds. Then they can play Rooney up top (as the main man as he clearly wants), with Mata centrally behind him rather than out on the left. Bit undecided on Moyes' reign so far.To an extent I do agree the squad needs major change, and anyone taking over from SAF is going to appear lesser in comparison, that's not his fault. But he's clearly not got a plan B at the minute. They need a lot more pace in the squad, going forwards especially. Mata is slow and RVP is getting on. Young cuts inside constantly and Valencia is inconsistent despite his pace. If they were doing this badly any previous year I'd be loving it, but I kind of want Moyes to succeed there as he's got the hardest job in the world taking over after SAF. I totally agree about RVP. I don't think he's a world class forward. One of the best finishers on the planet but I think Rooney has a better all-round game. Mata behind Rooney is better than Rooney behind RVP. I've become very unsure about Moyes staying though. He's been very poor IMO - unlucky, but has done nowhere near enough to create his own chances of getting lucky. Poor signings, poor tactics and worst of all, losing Man Utd's fear factor which often carried them in games where they weren't even playing that well. If we were in the Premier League this year and we played Man Utd at home - would you not be annoyed with a loss? I'd fancy us to have a proper go at these at the minute. If he gets another year then good luck to him.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 The players are not playing for moyes, and most are not good enough to play modern style football. They finished 1st last season. And now they are 7th. Moyes is doing a terrible job.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 I actually i can see Lukaku joining Man U to be honest plus I won't be surprised if he tries to go in for Benteke aswell, so he can have Belgium strike force up front. Van Persie to chelsea i'm not so sure about, i can see Van Persie returning to Arsenal. It ain't happening for Lukaku at Chelsea. He'd probably play regularly at Man Utd as well. I'll chuck a name out here - Antoine Griezmann. Quality player and a realistic target too IMO.
Guest MattP Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 I actually think there's an element of truth in that. I think they've gone a bit overboard but I do think Ferguson saw this coming in a way although I highly doubt it was his 'plan' for this to happen. It's only natural a lot online are in meltdown - a lot only 'support' them because they were winning everything. Glory hunters are a complain stain on the sport. Definitely. Giggs and Scholes, effectively done, Vidic and Ferdy looking like they have had their last run, RVP due a season of injuries, Rooney's head turning and he just been giving a league by the virtue of everyone else being so bad. He timed his exit to perfection. I actually i can see Lukaku joining Man U to be honest plus I won't be surprised if he tries to go in for Benteke aswell, so he can have Belgium strike force up front. Van Persie to chelsea i'm not so sure about, i can see Van Persie returning to Arsenal. Benteke is nowhere near good enough for the level Man U expect, one good season and being found out now. Lukaku is better but if I was a Man U fan I'd be demanding they are looking at the Falcaos and Costas of the World not Benteke and Lakaku.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Definitely. Giggs and Scholes, effectively done, Vidic and Ferdy looking like they have had their last run, RVP due a season of injuries, Rooney's head turning and he just been giving a league by the virtue of everyone else being so bad. He timed his exit to perfection. Benteke is nowhere near good enough for the level Man U expect, one good season and being found out now. Lukaku is better but if I was a Man U fan I'd be demanding they are looking at the Falcaos and Costas of the World not Benteke and Lakaku. Basically I think even he'd have ended up about fourth this year, as high as fourth because I don't think he'd have pissed around getting a top class centre mid in, someone like Marchisio (not sure he'd go there now). I don't think he'd sort this squad out in one summer. They'll be demanding the Falcao's & Costa's but why would either of those two go to Man Utd if they're hoping to play in the 'Champions' League? Even Monaco will be in it next year. Lukaku's only a youngster, could potentially be an excellent player still, that's why I suggested him. It'll be interesting to see to what extent their pulling power has actually dropped.
Guest MattP Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 It'll be interesting to see to what extent their pulling power has actually dropped. Very good point. They seemed to attract Mata no questions asked when 4th was looking very unlikely, I actually don't think it will have dropped that much. When Barcelona dropped to 15th they still had no problem in getting the Ronaldinhos in, I think Real Madrid would be the same if it happened to them. Man U arent on that level of club obviously, but I'd say a 10th place Man U would still be a more attractive move than a 4th place Spurs.
Haydos Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 They finished 1st last season. And now they are 7th. Moyes is doing a terrible job. I don't like this argument, I think it's bullshit. (But he is doing a terrible job as well) - Several players have declined further physically (Ferdinand/Vidic) - Other teams around them have strengthened, they've bought Fellaini - Moyes was always going to need a transition period, it's just turning out a bit worse than everyone thought -
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 I don't like this argument, I think it's bullshit. (But he is doing a terrible job as well) - Several players have declined further physically (Ferdinand/Vidic) - Other teams around them have strengthened, they've bought Fellaini - Moyes was always going to need a transition period, it's just turning out a bit worse than everyone thought - They are all excuses. Imagine if Tata Martino had Barcelona in 7th. Imagine if Pep Guardiola had Bayern Munich in 7th. Moyes is getting an easy ride.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 They are all excuses. Imagine if Tata Martino had Barcelona in 7th. Imagine if Pep Guardiola had Bayern Munich in 7th. Moyes is getting an easy ride. They're both better sides who actually won strong leagues last year. None of those two were declining. Guardiola's took over a side on another level to anyone on the planet at the minute. 7th would be a total disgrace.
Dan Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 Very good point. They seemed to attract Mata no questions asked when 4th was looking very unlikely, I actually don't think it will have dropped that much. When Barcelona dropped to 15th they still had no problem in getting the Ronaldinhos in, I think Real Madrid would be the same if it happened to them. Man U arent on that level of club obviously, but I'd say a 10th place Man U would still be a more attractive move than a 4th place Spurs. I think they'll get away with it for a year or two but I still think the absolute top players won't be interested. Is it fair to put Mata in that category when he's not even been playing regularly? Man Utd's task is simply finding players like Mata who are harshly frozen out. Maybe even someone like Mandzukic could be an option when Bayern sign Lewandowski.
Haydos Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 They are all excuses. Imagine if Tata Martino had Barcelona in 7th. Imagine if Pep Guardiola had Bayern Munich in 7th. Moyes is getting an easy ride. They're both hugely, HUGELY better teams and squads than Man Utd. Everyone knows Fergie was getting the absolute best out of a team he bought and built, players he developed. That's a testament to Ferguson's management and the fact that he was and is United. Barca and Bayern have so many world class players, Utd have (arguably) Rooney and Van Persie.
Webbo Posted 13 February 2014 Posted 13 February 2014 I think they should sack Moyes and give the job to Peter Taylor.
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