Jon the Hat Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Not sure how many of the posters lived through the year's of Benn's political power, but I did. His death is sad, of course, but a lot of what has been written and said about him today is ludicrous. I've never voted Tory in my life, but any politically aware person who was around during the 1960s, 70s and 80s knows that Tony Benn was a disaster in virtually everything that he did. While in government during the 1960s and 70s, he was breathtakingly inept at running the departments of which he was supposedly in charge: he clearly had no idea of his subject, whether it was technology, energy or industry. He established workers' co-operatives (using public money, but without public oversight) and he ostentatiously joined violent picket lines like that outside the Grundfoss premises. In doing so, he actively encouraged union dinosaurs such as Arthur Scargill, Clive Jenkins, Ken Gill, Jack Jones and the rest, who failed to listen to the social-democratic opinions of most of their members, brought the country to its knees, and led directly to the election of Margaret Thatcher in 1979. As if that were not enough, he helped keep Thatcher in power as one of those who orchestrated Labour's lurch to the left in the early 1980s. In particular, he was one of the architects of the 1983 Labour Party manifesto - what Gerald Kaufman called "The longest suicide note in history." That led to the creation of the Social Democratic Party, which robbed Labour of much of its core talent, and to the unmerited rise of halfwits like Blair. It's simply not good enough to defend Benn by saying that he was principled, or that he was honest and sincere in what he said: Most of what he said was plain wrong - and he wouldn't listen to anyone who argued against what he said. As I say, it's sad that Tony Benn he has died, and I hope that his death was peaceful and painless. But don't believe the bullsh!t: his political legacy, such as it is, is entirely without merit. He was a dreamer. Dreamers arenot good at the practicalities. Gave a good speech though.
LanguedocFox Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 He was a dreamer. Dreamers arenot good at the practicalities. Gave a good speech though. He was a f***ing nightmare, to be honest.
Jon the Hat Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 He was a f***ing nightmare, to be honest. Much like Ken Livingstone who just about bankrupted the GLC but somehow made a glorious comeback as Mayor of London.
Tielemans63 Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Whether you think he was a genius or a lunatic you've got to admire the man's conviction. He was absolutely right when he criticised the modernisers and the watering down of centre politics - the guy wasn't prepared to change his politics to make himself popular - how many modern-day politicians can you say that about? As I said before though, a lot of his politics were completely impractical / implausible.
Jon the Hat Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Whether you think he was a genius or a lunatic you've got to admire the man's conviction. He was absolutely right when he criticised the modernisers and the watering down of centre politics - the guy wasn't prepared to change his politics to make himself popular - how many modern-day politicians can you say that about? As I said before though, a lot of his politics were completely impractical / implausible. I guess it depends if you want politicians who actually change their ideas based on evidence and reasoned argument, or those who ignore everything and keep trotting out the same old stuff for 50 years.
Guest Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Whether you think he was a genius or a lunatic you've got to admire the man's conviction. He was absolutely right when he criticised the modernisers and the watering down of centre politics - the guy wasn't prepared to change his politics to make himself popular - how many modern-day politicians can you say that about? As I said before though, a lot of his politics were completely impractical / implausible. Sadly most policies put into practice are also impractical/implausible/downright stupid/ don't work. I guess it depends if you want politicians who actually change their ideas based on evidence and reasoned argument, or those who ignore everything and keep trotting out the same old stuff for 50 years. Is that what we have then?
foxoffderby Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Didn't agree with his views but respected him as a politician and as a man RIP
Tielemans63 Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 I guess it depends if you want politicians who actually change their ideas based on evidence and reasoned argument, or those who ignore everything and keep trotting out the same old stuff for 50 years. That's not really the point I was making is it? Also, I wish it was the case but I'm not sure how many current politicians do change their mind based on evidence and reasoned judgement - it seems to me most will take the media-friendly, populist approach or do what they think will win them votes. In my book, sticking to your principles is more admirable then selling out.
Feed The Yak!! Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Not sure how many of the posters lived through the year's of Benn's political power, but I did. His death is sad, of course, but a lot of what has been written and said about him today is ludicrous. I've never voted Tory in my life, but any politically aware person who was around during the 1960s, 70s and 80s knows that Tony Benn was a disaster in virtually everything that he did. While in government during the 1960s and 70s, he was breathtakingly inept at running the departments of which he was supposedly in charge: he clearly had no idea of his subject, whether it was technology, energy or industry. He established workers' co-operatives (using public money, but without public oversight) and he ostentatiously joined violent picket lines like that outside the Grundfoss premises. In doing so, he actively encouraged union dinosaurs such as Arthur Scargill, Clive Jenkins, Ken Gill, Jack Jones and the rest, who failed to listen to the social-democratic opinions of most of their members, brought the country to its knees, and led directly to the election of Margaret Thatcher in 1979. As if that were not enough, he helped keep Thatcher in power as one of those who orchestrated Labour's lurch to the left in the early 1980s. In particular, he was one of the architects of the 1983 Labour Party manifesto - what Gerald Kaufman called "The longest suicide note in history." That led to the creation of the Social Democratic Party, which robbed Labour of much of its core talent, and to the unmerited rise of halfwits like Blair. It's simply not good enough to defend Benn by saying that he was principled, or that he was honest and sincere in what he said: Most of what he said was plain wrong - and he wouldn't listen to anyone who argued against what he said. As I say, it's sad that Tony Benn he has died, and I hope that his death was peaceful and painless. But don't believe the bullsh!t: his political legacy, such as it is, is entirely without merit. He can't be held responsible for a foolish British electorate
l444ry Posted 14 March 2014 Posted 14 March 2014 Always remember hearing him speak on how the media were so crafty and subtle with their biased reporting. Shoot the messenger and job done! Outspoken hardline left-wing agitator and republican, Tony Benn, today claimed that, "the NHS must be saved." as opposed to Highly regarder businessman, Cabinet Minister and experienced expert on current issues said, "Today is Wednesday." Always felt this was wonderfully put.
Thracian Posted 16 March 2014 Posted 16 March 2014 He could be a compelling orator if you didn't take too much notice of what he said!
Rincewind Posted 16 March 2014 Posted 16 March 2014 If you took no notice then you were not listening.
Daggers Posted 16 March 2014 Posted 16 March 2014 A gentle man and an honourable soul, a true Digger and a massive loss to politics. Far too well read and intelligent to fit in with the bland soundbite landscape that is today's system of governance. I'll miss him as with those who valued the contributions he had to make. If only the braying hordes in the Commons had an ounce of his dignity.
Alf Bentley Posted 16 March 2014 Posted 16 March 2014 A couple of interesting memories of Benn on a personal level in recent days... Newsnight interviewed Denis Healey, who reckoned that he'd got on very well with Benn in recent years but that Benn had been very unpleasant to him during the Labour Deputy Leader election in the early 80s....though he did add that he (Healey) had been unpleasant to Benn, too. A lot at stake, I suppose. In yesterday's Grauniad, Deborah Orr remembered going to interview Benn and having to take her toddler son with her as she couldn't find a childminder. Apparently, Benn played and chatted with the lad for ages. The kid had taken a shine to an ornamental train carved out of coal by miners from Virginia and Benn gave it to him as a gift on leaving.
DennisNedry Posted 16 March 2014 Posted 16 March 2014 Benn was way before my time, so I asked my (right leaning) dad about what he thought of him. My dad loved him, because he made Labour such a loony left party that it made it easy for Queen Maggie to win consecutive elections. He did say to his credit though, that at least he wholeheartedly believed what he said which is a world apart from today's politicians.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 16 March 2014 Posted 16 March 2014 He was a complete left wing crank, who spoke utter bilge, and couldn't be taken seriously by any person with an ounce. of common sense Seemed a nice guy though, for all his nonsensical views.
Renart Posted 17 March 2014 Posted 17 March 2014 He was a complete left wing crank, who spoke utter bilge, and couldn't be taken seriously by any person with an ounce. of common sense Seemed a nice guy though, for all his nonsensical views. With a quick edit this could be applied to you DT He is a complete right wing crank, who speaks utter bilge, and cannot be taken seriously by any person with an ounce of common sense. Seems a nice guy though, for all his nonsensical views.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 17 March 2014 Posted 17 March 2014 With a quick edit this could be applied to you DT He is a complete right wing crank, who speaks utter bilge, and cannot be taken seriously by any person with an ounce of common sense. Seems a nice guy though, for all his nonsensical views.
l444ry Posted 18 March 2014 Posted 18 March 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYPeaoyU_Vc&feature=share
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