2015 Election season ..........stuff it in here.

[Rincewind]

At the same time waiting by the phone not knowing  what  hours you are doing  each week. If an agreed number of hours is made between employer and employee that is different  and I have  no problem with it.  It is when a person has to  do somerhing like 5 hours one week 2 hours the next and maybe none the next.They are unable to go out shopping in case they miss a phone call or make appointments. An AGREED  NUMBER OF HOURS is better for the employee. As well as receiving certain in work benefits which applies to full term workers  their lives are less disrupted.

 

But this has all been pointed out before so I am wasting my time.

[MooseBreath]

Point 1, hasn't exactly been dealt with, because some tory supporters have decided they disagree.

Point 2 can labour be blamed for the American banks, causing a global economic crash, would the Tories have prevented the crash?

Point 3, real people have died, who's to blame?

Point 2, no and no, though maybe we would have been better prepared under the tories. In any ccase who was to blame for the recession isn't relevant to the issue of wage growth.

Point 3, you would have to give specific examples before I could answer that, and I'd need a full unbiased account of what happened.

[Buce]

I know plenty thank you, and I was never talking about the entiretry of the muslim faith. I was talking about elements of the British Pakistani community. If you really don't think the issues I raised apply to that community at all then that is your opinion and I respect that.

Actually, the issue with mainly muslim grooming gangs is something I've been outspoken about for some time: there is clearly a problem there, I agree. But your post did imply that it was a widespread 'muslim problem', which I don't accept.

You then compounded the error by attributing regional cultural values (holocaust denial; genital mutilation) to the wider muslim community. If you didn't mean to, fair enough, but you can't blame us for inferring differently, from the language you used.

[MiniFox]

How many of those are employed by labour?

Probably too many.

 

Point 2, no and no, though maybe we would have been better prepared under the tories. In any ccase who was to blame for the recession isn't relevant to the issue of wage growth.

Point 3, you would have to give specific examples before I could answer that, and I'd need a full unbiased account of what happened.

It is relevant when you mentioned the recession.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/victims-britains-harsh-welfare-sanctions

Sure I posted this link, but anyway:

 

"We know that David Clapson was actively searching for work when he died because a pile of CVs he had just printed out was found a few metres from his body. The last time he spoke to his sister, a few days before he died, he told her he was waiting to hear back about an application he had made to the supermarket chain Lidl.

But officials at the Jobcentre believed he was not taking his search for work seriously enough, and early last July, they sanctioned him – cutting off his benefit payments entirely, as a punishment for his failure to attend two appointments.

Clapson, 59, who had diabetes, died in his flat in Stevenage on 20 July 2013, from diabetic ketoacidosis (caused by an acute lack of insulin). When Gill Thompson, his younger sister, discovered his body, she found his electricity had been cut off (meaning that the fridge where he kept his insulin was no longer working). There was very little left to eat in the flat – six tea bags, an out-of-date tin of sardines and a can of tomato soup. His pay-as-you-go mobile phone had just 5p credit left on it and he had only £3.44 in his bank account. The autopsy notes reveal that his stomach was empty."

 

There are more cases, but use this one as an example, someone dies because the job centre didn't believe he was taking it seriously enough. He was sanctioned, as a result, he died.

 

Furthermore,

 

"She is at pains to describe her brother as someone who had worked for 29 years, anxious to stress that he should not be seen as "scrounger". He spent five years in the army, two of them serving in Belfast, 16 years working for BT and another eight at other companies before he stopped working to care for their mother who had developed dementia. When she died three years ago, he began to look for a new job and was put on the government's new Work Programme, designed to help unemployed people find a job. He completed two periods of unpaid work experience, for B&Q and for a discount store. He told his sister he had enjoyed these sessions, and had hoped to be allowed to do more. He also completed a forklift truck training course. Although he struggled to use a computer, he had been trying to apply for jobs online. Thompson believes he was taking the process very seriously.

But at some point in May 2013, he missed two appointments with the Work Programme office, and was sent a letter informing him that his benefits would be stopped for a month; the last payment was made on 2 July, according to his sister. Six days later he was down to that last £3.44 (which he was unable to withdraw since it was less than £5). He died a fortnight later."

 

When you look at a case like that, can you really say it's fair? Was it his fault? Could he have done more? People shouldn't die, whatever the case.

Also, I'm not saying people shouldn't try hard to find a job, if they refuse, then sanctions would be fair in some cases, but to say he wasn't taking it seriously enough, is somewhat unfair don't you think?

[Strokes]

Probably too many.

 

It is relevant when you mentioned the recession.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/victims-britains-harsh-welfare-sanctions

Sure I posted this link, but anyway:

 

"We know that David Clapson was actively searching for work when he died because a pile of CVs he had just printed out was found a few metres from his body. The last time he spoke to his sister, a few days before he died, he told her he was waiting to hear back about an application he had made to the supermarket chain Lidl.

But officials at the Jobcentre believed he was not taking his search for work seriously enough, and early last July, they sanctioned him – cutting off his benefit payments entirely, as a punishment for his failure to attend two appointments.

Clapson, 59, who had diabetes, died in his flat in Stevenage on 20 July 2013, from diabetic ketoacidosis (caused by an acute lack of insulin). When Gill Thompson, his younger sister, discovered his body, she found his electricity had been cut off (meaning that the fridge where he kept his insulin was no longer working). There was very little left to eat in the flat – six tea bags, an out-of-date tin of sardines and a can of tomato soup. His pay-as-you-go mobile phone had just 5p credit left on it and he had only £3.44 in his bank account. The autopsy notes reveal that his stomach was empty."

There are more cases, but use this one as an example, someone dies because the job centre didn't believe he was taking it seriously enough. He was sanctioned, as a result, he died.

Furthermore:

"She is at pains to describe her brother as someone who had worked for 29 years, anxious to stress that he should not be seen as "scrounger". He spent five years in the army, two of them serving in Belfast, 16 years working for BT and another eight at other companies before he stopped working to care for their mother who had developed dementia. When she died three years ago, he began to look for a new job and was put on the government's new Work Programme, designed to help unemployed people find a job. He completed two periods of unpaid work experience, for B&Q and for a discount store. He told his sister he had enjoyed these sessions, and had hoped to be allowed to do more. He also completed a forklift truck training course. Although he struggled to use a computer, he had been trying to apply for jobs online. Thompson believes he was taking the process very seriously.

But at some point in May 2013, he missed two appointments with the Work Programme office, and was sent a letter informing him that his benefits would be stopped for a month; the last payment was made on 2 July, according to his sister. Six days later he was down to that last £3.44 (which he was unable to withdraw since it was less than £5). He died a fortnight later."

When you look at a case like that, can you really say it's fair? Was it his fault? Could he have done more? People shouldn't die, whatever the case.

I bet he would have loved a zero hour contract.

[Rincewind]

I doubt that will be good enough MiniFox You have more chance of changing coal to gold than make an impact

[Dr The Singh]

I bet he would have loved a zero hour contract.

That's a bit low!

[Strokes]

That's a bit low!

Aim low, shoot high.

[Dr The Singh]

Aim low, shoot high.

I'm like that with the ladies aswell, we should go on the pull together!!

[MiniFox]

I doubt that will be good enough MiniFox You have more chance of changing coal to gold than make an impact

It's a shame, but you're not wrong. 

[Rincewind]

I bet he would have loved a zero hour contract.

No doubt but he would have been sanctioned if called out of a work programme session working for nothing to do two hoursat min wage.

[Strokes]

I'm like that with the ladies aswell, we should go on the pull together!!

I'm well up for a beer singhy, the ladies will naturally flock.

[Strokes]

It's a shame, but you're not wrong.

I think I've had a few to many to continue in these debates seriously, good luck with your agenda.

[MiniFox]

I think I've had a few to many to continue in these debates seriously, good luck with your agenda.

I don't think anyone on here (that isn't tory) could have an impact on you anyway 

[Rincewind]

I've lost the motivation to try I will concentrate on my campaign to make Richard Dawkins Pope I may have better luck..

[Stadt]

90% of the people in this thread aren't going to change their mind so I didn't understand why you see being entrenched in your views as an issue because you're the same.

[ADK]

What about the other 10%?

[Strokes]

What about the other 10%?

They don't vote.

[MiniFox]

90% of the people in this thread aren't going to change their mind so I didn't understand why you see being entrenched in your views as an issue because you're the same.

Well, the original post was about someone who wasn't sure who to vote for, which received a reply about the conservatives, so I replied which eventually led to the earlier posts.

 

Maybe you're right, but Moose more or less disagreed which is why I posted with the link, if you look that's what he basically asked for.

 

People can believe what they want, I was only really replying to posts, if someone posts elsewhere saying they think Pearson should get the sack right now and presumably you disagree, you might still respond, not because you want to change their mind but because you disagree.

[Stadt]

What about the other 10%?

They probably won't learn much from here, I mean the Tories brought us genocide             

[MiniFox]

They probably won't learn much from here, I mean the Tories brought us genocide             

I've learnt you're an ostrich. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

90% of the people in this thread aren't going to change their mind so I didn't understand why you see being entrenched in your views as an issue because you're the same.

It's a shame though that some people struggle to hold constructive discussion or even consider the other argument. You don't have to change your mind but there's no need to be so dismissive or 'hardline' as some people are in here.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm well up for a beer singhy, the ladies will naturally flock.

Gotta make sure Rincy's not around, don't trust him, he will try and poach our bitched

[Rincewind]

Soldiers in the first World war were discouraged not to send letters home describing what it was like in the trenches by their superiors. I feel like thatTommy.

[ADK]

They probably won't learn much from here, I mean the Tories brought us genocide             

 

Are you an expert on welfare then?