Mark_w Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 Was under the impression you supported PR? Don't see how he's done an awful job either, he's favourite to win his seat where all sorts of dirty tricks and tactical voting are being used against him. Either way I think South Thanet should have been more comfortable than it's going to be, and he's performed pretty poorly (in comparison to his previous performances) in all the major debates leading up to the election I think. I'm completely undecided on PR, it would depend entirely on how it was implemented, but I certainly have my reservations. If I'd been old enough to I'd have voted against the Alternative Vote system proposed in 2011.
Strokes Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 Either way I think South Thanet should have been more comfortable than it's going to be, and he's performed pretty poorly (in comparison to his previous performances) in all the major debates leading up to the election I think. I'm completely undecided on PR, it would depend entirely on how it was implemented, but I certainly have my reservations. If I'd been old enough to I'd have voted against the Alternative Vote system proposed in 2011. I didn't realise the general public voted on voting reforms.
Jon25747 Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 It's a coalition government, increasing that tax threshold is now part of the Conservative manifesto. In the last parliament it was the lib dems who were responsible for raising the tax free amount not the tories. Im not talking about this parliaments manifestos because the point was about the last 5 years and Im just pointing out that credit can't be assigned where it isn't due.
Benji Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 And how is it to be known if they have or not as voting is secret? Anther ployto turn people off Labour. Do they really think people are so thick to fall for it?
Rincewind Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 I just think its a non story. I never said it was made up. I'm just saying it will not be known how they voted. If they have been coerced then yes it is wrong. It is nothing new. Many a husband ibn the past have instructed their wives to vote in a certain way. This was before women started to think for themselves of course and the outbreak of feminism pre-sixties so it is not just Muslims that do it. I agree it should be exposed and those doing it brought to justice. Just saying it is hard to prove if they had made a difference.
Guest MattP Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 Either way I think South Thanet should have been more comfortable than it's going to be, and he's performed pretty poorly (in comparison to his previous performances) in all the major debates leading up to the election I think. I'm completely undecided on PR, it would depend entirely on how it was implemented, but I certainly have my reservations. If I'd been old enough to I'd have voted against the Alternative Vote system proposed in 2011. No UKIP (or Green, Respect etc) seat is ever going to be a comfortable one, as Alf has said you'll have people from Labour, Lib Dem and the Conservatives all prepared to jump ship to the second place to keep supposed 'extremists' out and he has to deal with the main parties plying money and high profile candidates into Thanet opposing him on visits. Apologies, I thought you were 100% behind PR.
Guest MattP Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 In the last parliament it was the lib dems who were responsible for raising the tax free amount not the tories. Im not talking about this parliaments manifestos because the point was about the last 5 years and Im just pointing out that credit can't be assigned where it isn't due. It was put through by the coalition government, that means 290 odd Tories voted it through the house I just think its a non story. I never said it was made up. I'm just saying it will not be known how they voted. If they have been coerced then yes it is wrong. How many It is nothing new. Many a husband ibn the past have instructed their wives to vote in a certain way. This was before women started to think for themselves of course and the outbreak of feminism pre-sixties so it is not just Muslims that do it. I agree it should be exposed and those doing it brought to justice. Just saying it is hard to prove if they had made a difference. We are in 2015 Ken. These sort of things should not be happening and fortunately the courts and the electoral commission take it far more seriously than you do.
Strokes Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 In the last parliament it was the lib dems who were responsible for raising the tax free amount not the tories. Im not talking about this parliaments manifestos because the point was about the last 5 years and Im just pointing out that credit can't be assigned where it isn't due.you are wrong, both parties have to agree which policies are implemented from their manifestos. As matt says its a coalition. The lib dems for me take a hell of a lot of credit for the last 5 years and hopefully the next 5, should we get the same/similar result.
Jon25747 Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 It was put through by the coalition government, that means 290 odd Tories voted it through the house Yes but they wouldn't have done it on their own accord because it wasn't in their manifesto.
Rincewind Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 It was put through by the coalition government, that means 290 odd Tories voted it through the house We are in 2015 Ken. These sort of things should not be happening and fortunately the courts and the electoral commission take it far more seriously than you do. Agreed it is 2015.
Jon the Hat Posted 7 May 2015 Author Posted 7 May 2015 I imagine it's becuase they are the people who pay their taxes. The highest earning 3000 pay more tax than the lowest earning 9,000,000 FIF. You can keep harping on about the rich not paying taxes, but it isn't true is it? You know it isn't.
Jon25747 Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2015/05/02/britain-for-the-love-of-god-please-stop-david-cameron/ Rather inflammatory title but very interesting read about how we are constantly lied to about "Labour causing the economic downturn" and "Labour overspending"
Jon the Hat Posted 7 May 2015 Author Posted 7 May 2015 In the last parliament it was the lib dems who were responsible for raising the tax free amount not the tories. Im not talking about this parliaments manifestos because the point was about the last 5 years and Im just pointing out that credit can't be assigned where it isn't due. You are wrong there. George Osborne wouldn't have put through those changes unless he wanted to. It is classic Tory policy - you don't tax people to hand it back in benefits. Note they also didn't hand on those increases to higher rate tax payers - they reduced the threshold there to offset the benefit. Also note that those earning over about £110k don't get a tax free threshold at all.
Babylon Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 How safe is the Harborough seat for the conservatives? Garnier had a fairly large win last time 26,000 to 17,000 (lib dems). Labour were nowhere in that one with just 7000. Labour have probably picked up quite a bit this year but I'd imagine the Lib Dems will have lost quite a bit. You also have two asian candidates this year which could eat into the liberal slice of voting even more, as Haq was the only one to stand last time. Can't see anything but another Garnier win.
Jon the Hat Posted 7 May 2015 Author Posted 7 May 2015 http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2015/05/02/britain-for-the-love-of-god-please-stop-david-cameron/ Rather inflammatory title but very interesting read about how we are constantly lied to about "Labour causing the economic downturn" and "Labour overspending" If you take figures proportionally then Labour didn't overspend. The problem is, if you keep the proportion of GDP you are spending on Public sector flat while GDP grows, you are in fact spending more. Then when it turns out you have in fact NOT put an end to boom and bust, your cost base is too high. That is why people say Labour overspent - they didn't invest, they put in ongoing spending on payrises, pension etc and new jobs which are much harder to take out again. I also really love the chart where it shows that a good chunk of growth under Labour was funded by public sector spending, then the act of reducing that will obviously slow the economy. No shit. The selective removal of 2009-2010 is comedy.
David Hankey Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 Regarding the "overspend" remember Liam Byrne's note "no money left in the cupboard". That says it all to me. If there was no money left and the deficit was as big as stated a) how was that arrived at and b) who was at the helm when it occurred? Labour simply cannot e trusted with the economy!!
Jon25747 Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 You are wrong there. George Osborne wouldn't have put through those changes unless he wanted to. It is classic Tory policy - you don't tax people to hand it back in benefits. Note they also didn't hand on those increases to higher rate tax payers - they reduced the threshold there to offset the benefit. Also note that those earning over about £110k don't get a tax free threshold at all. The tories clearly didn't want to do this in the ideal scenario of a tory majority because it wasn't in their manifesto! Lib dem went into the coalition with this policy as their 'red line'. I am not commenting on higher tax bands but am merely pointing out that the original comment i responded to is highly misleading.
David Hankey Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 How safe is the Harborough seat for the conservatives? Garnier had a fairly large win last time 26,000 to 17,000 (lib dems). Labour were nowhere in that one with just 7000. Labour have probably picked up quite a bit this year but I'd imagine the Lib Dems will have lost quite a bit. You also have two asian candidates this year which could eat into the liberal slice of voting even more, as Haq was the only one to stand last time. Can't see anything but another Garnier win. Undoubtedly Garnier will be elected again but with a reduced majority just like Duncan in his safe seat of Melton & Rutland.
Jon25747 Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 Regarding the "overspend" remember Liam Byrne's note "no money left in the cupboard". That says it all to me. If there was no money left and the deficit was as big as stated a) how was that arrived at and b) who was at the helm when it occurred? Labour simply cannot e trusted with the economy!! The note was clearly immature and stupid but it doesn't excuse the point that there was no money because of a global financial crisis, originating in the US that hit us harder than most because of our over reliance on the financial industry and under regulated banks. Not because of Labour overspending.
Guest MattP Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 The note was clearly immature and stupid but it doesn't excuse the point that there was no money because of a global financial crisis, originating in the US that hit us harder than most because of our over reliance on the financial industry and under regulated banks. Not because of Labour overspending. Labour were still running a deficit after 16 consecutive years of growth. If you can't run at a surplus then when are you going to? When were they planning to? The financial crash was the best thing that happened to them in the end, it gave them an excuse for there huge overspending in the early years.
Darkon84 Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 How safe is the Harborough seat for the conservatives? Garnier had a fairly large win last time 26,000 to 17,000 (lib dems). Labour were nowhere in that one with just 7000. Labour have probably picked up quite a bit this year but I'd imagine the Lib Dems will have lost quite a bit. You also have two asian candidates this year which could eat into the liberal slice of voting even more, as Haq was the only one to stand last time. Can't see anything but another Garnier win. How does Harborough usually go? I'm next door in Leicestershire South and it's been solid Conservative since the early 90's I think. I'd imagine a safe seat again, though Andrew Robathan has finally stepped down, allowing Alberto Costa coming to take over which might cause a few ripples with the older voters who had grown accustomed to Robathan. Costa was doing the rounds a few weeks ago and I got to have a quick chat with him, and found him incredibly knowledgeable and pretty likeable. I think it's pretty obvious which way my vote is going
Guest MattP Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 What are most people doing tonight with regards to coverage? I'm going bed about 3-4 I think and getting up about 10pm tonight. A few times of expected results in some of the more interesting counts.
Jon the Hat Posted 7 May 2015 Author Posted 7 May 2015 The tories clearly didn't want to do this in the ideal scenario of a tory majority because it wasn't in their manifesto! Lib dem went into the coalition with this policy as their 'red line'. I am not commenting on higher tax bands but am merely pointing out that the original comment i responded to is highly misleading. To be fair they probably wouldn't have increased VAT if they didn't have that policy, so swings and roundabouts.
Jon the Hat Posted 7 May 2015 Author Posted 7 May 2015 What are most people doing tonight with regards to coverage? I'm going bed about 3-4 I think and getting up about 10pm tonight. A few times of expected results in some of the more interesting counts. I will probably watch the initial exit poll coverage, then go to bed and get up about 5 to watch a bit then. This is going to run through Friday without a doubt.
David Hankey Posted 7 May 2015 Posted 7 May 2015 The note was clearly immature and stupid but it doesn't excuse the point that there was no money because of a global financial crisis, originating in the US that hit us harder than most because of our over reliance on the financial industry and under regulated banks. Not because of Labour overspending. So after years of Gordon Brown, who I thought was a reasonable Chancellor, spouting "prudence, prudence, prudence" when he finally got to be PM it all went pear-shaped. The fact is that New Labour had 13 years to rein in the banks and financial institutions in particular the likes of Northern Rock who were willing to lend to anyone whether they had savings or not. New Labour were not squeaky clean and the deficit will be with us for another 5 years make no mistake.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.