2015 Election season ..........stuff it in here.

[Kopfkino]

Obscene noises are very very rare and it's the speakers job to clamp down on them.

 

Surprised you feel that way, even more given how you clearly have a fantastic political mind, I think the traditions of the house of of huge importance and the etiquette should be upheld by all, the 'yay' or 'nay' or 'here here' isn't overly used unless a certain MP clearly agrees with someone passionately and that is a brief show of support that would barely interrupt a speech or right of reply.

 

It would be absolutely ludicrous if the whole chamber started applauding whenever Cameron or the opposition leader spoke, would turn it into a total farce, let alone it happening when minority parties start doing it as well. It would be like a load of cockneys turning up at St Andrews in the 19th century singing whilst someone is trying to putt

Don't get me wrong, I understand why there shouldn't be clapping and the scottish are just being arseholes but they're not the only ones that need to consider their conduct. I find it most pathetic from the SNP actually, if this is their idea of shaking up Westminster then I despair.

I also wouldn't be so bullish about them fading come 2020 or whatever. People like empowerment and the SNP will make Scotland believe they help them achieve this, whether they actually do or not is a different matter. Nobody challenged Sturgeon on the record of the SNP during the election and come the 2016 Holyrood elections, when they wipe the floor with everybody, there will be less people to challenge their record and it will all be quite easy for them in Scotland. The one way to sniff them out is full fiscal autonomy

[Bilo]

Don't get me wrong, I understand why there shouldn't be clapping and the scottish are just being arseholes but they're not the only ones that need to consider their conduct. I find it most pathetic from the SNP actually, if this is their idea of shaking up Westminster then I despair.

I also wouldn't be so bullish about them fading come 2020 or whatever. People like empowerment and the SNP will make Scotland believe they help them achieve this, whether they actually do or not is a different matter. Nobody challenged Sturgeon on the record of the SNP during the election and come the 2016 Holyrood elections, when they wipe the floor with everybody, there will be less people to challenge their record and it will all be quite easy for them in Scotland. The one way to sniff them out is full fiscal autonomy

 

I posted this earlier in the thread, but there has been talk of them being offered exactly that. That'd be lose-lose for the SNP, either accept a proposal for which they're nowhere near ready, or undermine their entire raison d'etre by turning it down.

 

The SNP won't be allowed to have it all their own way, especially not with the way they're behaving in Westminster. They'll live to regret their boorish introduction to the HoC over the next few years.

[Guest MattP]

Don't get me wrong, I understand why there shouldn't be clapping and the scottish are just being arseholes but they're not the only ones that need to consider their conduct. I find it most pathetic from the SNP actually, if this is their idea of shaking up Westminster then I despair.

I also wouldn't be so bullish about them fading come 2020 or whatever. People like empowerment and the SNP will make Scotland believe they help them achieve this, whether they actually do or not is a different matter. Nobody challenged Sturgeon on the record of the SNP during the election and come the 2016 Holyrood elections, when they wipe the floor with everybody, there will be less people to challenge their record and it will all be quite easy for them in Scotland. The one way to sniff them out is full fiscal autonomy

 

I agree with this.

 

Having spent a bit of time up there the hatred towards Westminster from the 45% is incredible, they aren't voting for anyone but the SNP anytime soon. I was even told by one he'd vote Tory ahead of Labour now, they see the Tories as the enemy but they actually see the Labour party as traitors and that's far worse.

[Guest MattP]

One of the most principled men in parliament Douglas Carswell now can't even take the bus home due to the idiots from Class War/SWP/Hope Not Hate etc Churchill nailed it when he said that the fascists of the future would call themselves anti-fascists.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11634479/Douglas-Carswell-accosted-by-protestors-chanting-racist.html

 

The irony of anti-austerity 'protestors' - sorry thugs, now forcing MP's to take taxpayer funded cars with security rather than the bus home shouldn't be lost on anybody.

[Jon the Hat]

One of the most principled men in parliament Douglas Carswell now can't even take the bus home due to the idiots from Class War/SWP/Hope Not Hate etc Churchill nailed it when he said that the fascists of the future would call themselves anti-fascists.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11634479/Douglas-Carswell-accosted-by-protestors-chanting-racist.html

 

The irony of anti-austerity 'protestors' - sorry thugs, now forcing MP's to take taxpayer funded cars with security rather than the bus home shouldn't be lost on anybody.

 

Bunch of wankers.  The police let them get away with it as well for fear of being branded anti-protest.

[Bilo]

One of the most principled men in parliament Douglas Carswell now can't even take the bus home due to the idiots from Class War/SWP/Hope Not Hate etc Churchill nailed it when he said that the fascists of the future would call themselves anti-fascists.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11634479/Douglas-Carswell-accosted-by-protestors-chanting-racist.html

 

The irony of anti-austerity 'protestors' - sorry thugs, now forcing MP's to take taxpayer funded cars with security rather than the bus home shouldn't be lost on anybody.

 

Horrendous people.

[leicsmac]

One of the most principled men in parliament Douglas Carswell now can't even take the bus home due to the idiots from Class War/SWP/Hope Not Hate etc Churchill nailed it when he said that the fascists of the future would call themselves anti-fascists.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11634479/Douglas-Carswell-accosted-by-protestors-chanting-racist.html

 

The irony of anti-austerity 'protestors' - sorry thugs, now forcing MP's to take taxpayer funded cars with security rather than the bus home shouldn't be lost on anybody.

 

Idiots. 

[Strokes]

One of the most principled men in parliament Douglas Carswell now can't even take the bus home due to the idiots from Class War/SWP/Hope Not Hate etc Churchill nailed it when he said that the fascists of the future would call themselves anti-fascists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11634479/Douglas-Carswell-accosted-by-protestors-chanting-racist.html

The irony of anti-austerity 'protestors' - sorry thugs, now forcing MP's to take taxpayer funded cars with security rather than the bus home shouldn't be lost on anybody.

Them groups have nice ironic names.

[Rincewind]

How dare they protest. When will they realise that people just do not give a shit?

[Webbo]

How dare they protest. When will they realise that people just do not give a shit?

What are they protesting against Ken?

[MiniFox]

#WorkingClassTories trending on Twitter.

 

Not sure why it started.

 

Seemingly a mixture of working class Tories justifying their reasons for voting Tory and Labour supporters basically raging at anyone who voted Tory.

 

Labour supporters need to realise they aren't going to win the working class vote by abusing them for their decision, simple as that. 

[Danno]

Horrible scabs

[Rincewind]

one for the conspiracy theorists.  http://atrueindependentscotland.com/bbc-handed-explosive-evidence-of-massive-corruption-that-is-set-topple-the-british-establishment/

[Bilo]

How dare they protest. When will they realise that people just do not give a shit?

 

There are legitimate ways of protest, which I support.

 

This doesn't fit into that category.

[Rincewind]

There are legitimate ways of protest, which I support.

 

This doesn't fit into that category.

True.And I agree.When the damaging of property makes a bigger headline their protest goes unheard regardless of what it is about and worthy the cause.

It won't matter soon.The government wants to ban all protests that they regard as not in the public's interest.

[theessexfox]

True.And I agree.When the damaging of property makes a bigger headline their protest goes unheard regardless of what it is about and worthy the cause.

It won't matter soon.The government wants to ban all protests that they regard as not in the public's interest.

Interesting, where have you read this government proposal Ken?

 

Followed you on Twitter the other day by the way. 

[Rincewind]

Interesting, where have you read this government proposal Ken?

 

Followed you on Twitter the other day by the way. 

Anti terrorism laws. It may be old news which is why I have avoided mentioning it but now they have a majority government who knows Not saying it will happen soon but Cameron has made speeches saying anyone that makes a lot of 'noise' may be regarded as anti- British. Worded like that and with media backing a lot of people will support any changes.

I have seen the plans to scrap the HRA has been put on hold.

 

If you follow me you may get posts and links I won't put on here. On Twitter my posts are retweeted and favourited. Here, well lets just say they are not so popular.

[Danno]

What's your twitter ken bro

[Rincewind]

@Evil_Ken_Evil

[Webbo]

True.And I agree.When the damaging of property makes a bigger headline their protest goes unheard regardless of what it is about and worthy the cause.

It won't matter soon.The government wants to ban all protests that they regard as not in the public's interest.

You've still not told us what they were protesting against?

[Guest MattP]

True.And I agree.When the damaging of property makes a bigger headline their protest goes unheard regardless of what it is about and worthy the cause.

It won't matter soon.The government wants to ban all protests that they regard as not in the public's interest.

 

 

Even for you that's an outrageous piece of fibbing.

 

#WorkingClassTories trending on Twitter.

 

Not sure why it started.

 

Seemingly a mixture of working class Tories justifying their reasons for voting Tory and Labour supporters basically raging at anyone who voted Tory.

 

Labour supporters need to realise they aren't going to win the working class vote by abusing them for their decision, simple as that. 

 

Had a quick look at this and found it very bizarre, a lot of Labour supporters seem to think they own the working class, what a strange thought process to have, these weren't impressionable kids either at University playing up to their militant leftism, a lot were fully grown men beyond the age of 40.

 

Another reason the left needs to think about and why they probably lost the election, you can't take anybody for granted, you don't own someone's vote.

 

You've still not told us what they were protesting against?

 

To be fair it is hard to keep up with what these guys are protesting about on a day-today basis, one of them had a 'Stop the Cuts' banner in one hand, a Palestinian flag in the other, a rainbow tutu around the waist and a balaclava on his/her head.

[Harry - LCFC]

#WorkingClassTories trending on Twitter.

 

Not sure why it started.

 

Seemingly a mixture of working class Tories justifying their reasons for voting Tory and Labour supporters basically raging at anyone who voted Tory.

 

Labour supporters need to realise they aren't going to win the working class vote by abusing them for their decision, simple as that. 

 

Indeed. So often their comments will include a remark about how working class Conservative voters have been 'brainwashed', were short sighted, greedy or too stupid to make the right decision. It isn't just a polite disagreement but an attack on the working class' ability to think for themselves.

[davieG]

Indeed. So often their comments will include a remark about how working class Conservative voters have been 'brainwashed', were short sighted, greedy or too stupid to make the right decision. It isn't just a polite disagreement but an attack on the working class' ability to think for themselves.

Sounds like some of them could be from this forum.   

[Bilo]

 

Even for you that's an outrageous piece of fibbing.

 

 

Had a quick look at this and found it very bizarre, a lot of Labour supporters seem to think they own the working class, what a strange thought process to have, these weren't impressionable kids either at University playing up to their militant leftism, a lot were fully grown men beyond the age of 40.

 

Another reason the left needs to think about and why they probably lost the election, you can't take anybody for granted, you don't own someone's vote.

 

 

To be fair it is hard to keep up with what these guys are protesting about on a day-today basis, one of them had a 'Stop the Cuts' banner in one hand, a Palestinian flag in the other, a rainbow tutu around the waist and a balaclava on his/her head.

 

We might not agree on a lot regarding politics, but you're spot on here.

 

The left aren't going to change any minds by insulting people who didn't vote the way we wanted, and we have to assess why many of the working class have voted Tory and, in many cases, UKIP. The easy thing to do, particularly with regard to the latter, is to smear them as ignorant, ill-informed and other such assumptions, but it won't get their votes back.

 

In terms of why working class people are going to the Tories, it's important we realise that we need to be the party of aspiration which supports social mobility as well as social justice. This is best achieved by keeping to the centre-left. I'd like a left-wing government, but I know it won't win and there's no point being eternally in opposition. We focused too much on the rich and the poor in the campaign, but not enough on those in between who had little idea what a Labour government could offer them - and it was that demographic that Blair had nailed, turning Labour into what only be described as an election winning machine. Of course, I don't want an heir to Blair. While his first term was very successful, he'll be forever remembered as the man who took us into the quagmire of Iraq. It's the key reason I didn't vote for Blair or Brown after all, but I can only stand and admire his ability to connect with traditional Labour voters as well as the aspiration working-middle class voters. Cameron engaged these voters, we didn't. If we rectify that, we'll make inroads.

 

As for UKIP voters, we have to understand why they're voting UKIP. The uncomfortable truth is that immigration may have been good for our economy, but the working classes aren't seeing the benefits. In a rural community such as the one I live in, mass immigration has driven down wages and seen rapid changes in towns that were hitherto as English as they come, changes that these communities were not ready for. What we need to do is have a tougher, fairer immigration policy that works for everybody and aims to curtail the undercutting of wages. We also need to make it very clear to the electorate that not only do we not need to leave the EU for this to happen, but that leaving the EU has the potential to be damaging to all levels of society. 

 

It's a huge job we have on; and we need to choose not only the right leader, but espouse the right message. The right leader saying the wrong things will get the same result, perhaps worse, than we've just experienced.

 

In terms of the protestor you describe, I honestly don't understand them. What place does a Palestine flag have at a rally about austerity, student tuition fees or public sector pensions? It makes me wonder how they cope with day-to-day disappointments or annoyances.

BARMAN: Sorry mate, we're out of Stella.

PROTESTOR: Out of Stella?! Fvcking Zionist! VIVA PALESTINA!

 

Joking aside, it undermines both causes when these people just look like generic far-left rent-a-mob types. I personally support Palestinian sovereignty, oppose austerity, want student tuition fees lowered and a fair deal for all workers but have the intelligence to realise that all these issues ought to be kept separate.

[Guest MattP]

You've pretty much nailed what Labour has to do there in one posy, I can't see that happening with the current shower but a Dan Jarvis led shadow cabinet in 2025 having cleared out all the deadwood wouldn't surprise me if it managed to achieve it. The one thing I would add to that is I think they almost now need to completely seperate themselves from the unions, the general public regard people like Len McCluskey as absolute scum and being attached to these militant people in any way doesn't appeal to anyone outside the core vote, whether they can financially afford to do that I don't know.

 

If they want their voters back from UKIP they basically need to stop pandering so much to the minority vote, although I doubt the people they lost through things like Rotherham will be coming back whatever happens. They certainly can't be turning up at gender segregated rallies, that sort of hypocrisy isn't going to wash in this day and age.

 

On the sujject of protestors, quite brilliant irony has literally just been on TV, a anti-Fifa protest outside the building and you guessed it, a few them have the obligatory modern day protestor Palestinian flag