Ticket Touts - "Put Fans First"

[Bellend Sebastian]

Are you bothered by the practice?  Stewart Lee and Iron Maiden are, judging by the evidence below.

 

Personally, it doesn't affect me that much, because being a fan generally of things that are seen as difficult and/or unpopular the touts rarely take an interest in the things I want to go to.

 

It's the free market, of course, but if you're an artist and want to sell your performance direct to your audience for a given price, should you be able to?

 

Over to you, my friends

 

Love, Bellend

 

p.s. SL is right, Iron Maiden Trooper Ale is very nice

 

 

 

Dear All 

TICKET TOUTS - RUN TO THE HILLS 

As you may have noticed Stub Hub, Viagogo and E-bay have been touting tickets for the current Room With A Stew Tour at up to £99, a nearly 400% mark-up on seats, many of which are in publicly subsidised venues, the utter bastards. 

I have contacted Stub Hub and Viagogo about this, they have of course pointed out it is all technically legal, and will not be drawn into discussion about the difference between law and ethics. 
If you go into Stub Hub's office on Great Portland St you can try and eat as many free sweets off the desk as possible while you argue with the bloke there, even though it's not his fault and he just has to use words like 'platform' over and over again to avoid commenting on anything.

The culture secretary Sajid Javid has said the only people that oppose touting are 'chattering middle classes and champagne socialists'. He also wants the arts to be more 'accessible' to justify subsidy. He has not replied to any of my e-mails, and nor has the shadow culture secretary. 

I oppose touting because I want my shows to be accessible to all, so that everyone can come and hate them as equals, and I cut corners to keep tickets as cheap as venues will allow me to make them (don't play ATG theatres, no ad campaign, Premier Inns etc etc.) I don't see why this is 'champagne socialism', and if it is, I am all for it. Also, let's face it, I don't write £99 shows. That said, I don't think they will shift these mark-ups to my audience anyway.

Iron Maiden, who have a giant robot of a monster on their side, are now taking on this issue, God bless them, and I urge you to support them and fill in the forms below. Also, drink their Trooper beer. It is ace. I will not pretend to be a Maiden fan but who cannot like Run To The Hills and 666?

Incidentally, I am adding more dates to some of the sold out shows so there should be no need to buy over the odds tickets from these twats. There won't be another date at Kingston but for god's sake just go into London this Autumn at Leics Sq Theatre rather than pay £99 for the back row of the Rose Theatre on an evasive website.

Please spread this around and end this nonsense.
Artists shouldn't have to have their tickets sold at higher rates than they want them to be sold at. It is wrong. The Free Market, in this case, can **** off. 

MESSAGE ENDS

S

 

Iron Maiden support anti-ticket tout campaign View this email in your browser

PUT FANS FIRST - METAL V TOUTS

A MESSAGE FROM ROD SMALLWOOD, MANAGER OF IRON MAIDEN 

The ever-increasing plague of 'Secondary Ticketing' excesses are a blight on live music and sports events and much to the detriment of fans. This affects fans both in terms of fair cost and their equal opportunity to be able to buy tickets when they go on sale. There is an urgent need for greater transparency on ticket sales. Many major bands and managers, agents and promoters along with national sporting bodies like the RFU and ECB have long been calling for Government intervention and legislation as there is excessive profiteering going on at the expense of genuine fans. But to date the government has done nothing about this.

However there is finally an opportunity with the Bill from the All Party Parliamentary Group on Ticket Abuse, co-chaired by Mike Weatherly MP (Conservative) and Sharon Hodgson MP (Labour) to inject much needed transparency .

Your support is critical to demonstrate to this Government that the Public are fully behind us in this opposition to the current abuses. We would urge all UK Iron Maiden and Metal Fans to consider supporting this Bill and assist ideally by emailing your local MP or simply going on Facebook or Twitter, and rallying behind the cause - Put Fans First.

Contacting your MP is the most helpful and carries the most weight, but it would be terrific if you could not only do all three of the above but invite your friends to do so too. This may well be the best and only opportunity fans have to get some protection from the touts and more equality in getting tickets to major concerts and events. Join us at www.ironmaiden.com in helping bring an end to the profiteering activities of ticket touts online that prevent real fans attending the events they wish to go to, at the price they should be sold the tickets for.

Using the TEMPLATE that can be found on http://ironmaiden.com/we-need-your-support---secondary-ticketing.html  or in your own words, we would encourage you to email your MP asking them to support this amendment when it comes back to the House of Commons.

If you're not sure who your MP is or how to contact them, you can find out by entering your postcode on https://www.writetothem.com/.  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PutFansFirst 

Twitter: @put_fans_first

 More information can be found on the APPG Ticket Abuse website:www.putfansfirst.co.uk.

 

[purpleronnie]

I have no problem with it and have used those sites, the chances of getting great seats are slim even without the touts so I'm happy to pay for a good view.

[eye666]

Definitely. Some of the mark-ups are scandalous. Take the Rugby World Cup for instance, which funnily enough was supposed to be a fair way of getting tickets to real fans. Within minutes of the ballot, tickets that cost say £50 were up online for nearly £2000 for the big games (England/Oz, England/Wales etc.). Similar story for other events that get a mark-up because some James Blunt has software that means they can buy up loads of tickets when they become available: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30766810

[Mike the Metal Ed]

On the one hand, there's nothing worse than having to go through a mad scramble for tickets at 8:59 am on the day of release on a site that barely functions, not helped by people grabbing as many tickets as possible to sell on later, but on the other, I'm still hoping to get to see System of a Down at Wembley Arena and I couldn't afford tickets on release day, so now my only option is to get them on the second hand market. You could restrict second hand ticket sales to within a certain % of face value, but that's not really an attractive business model.

[Unabomber]

Stewart Lee is touring? How did I miss this.

[purpleronnie]

Definitely. Some of the mark-ups are scandalous. Take the Rugby World Cup for instance, which funnily enough was supposed to be a fair way of getting tickets to real fans. Within minutes of the ballot, tickets that cost say £50 were up online for nearly £2000 for the big games (England/Oz, England/Wales etc.). Similar story for other events that get a mark-up because some James Blunt has software that means they can buy up loads of tickets when they become available: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30766810

But just because they put them up for that price it certainly doesnt mean they sell for that price.  Plus if people are willing to pay then its a free market.  People get their pants in a twist over this but have no problem with other things being marked up.

[ramboacdc]

the iron maiden song is called "number of the beast" not 666.

 

also you will never stop it sadly. unless they make it like glasto where your face is on the ticket,  it will continue. 

 

i do miss places like scarlet mist where you have to sell at face value however. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

Stewart Lee is touring? How did I miss this.

 

It's one of his shows where he road tests material for the TV programme.  I'm sure it'll be good, but when I saw Vegetable Stew a few years back it just meant that I'd seen half the telly programme when it came out.

 

But just because they put them up for that price it certainly doesnt mean they sell for that price.  Plus if people are willing to pay then its a free market.  People get their pants in a twist over this but have no problem with other things being marked up.

 

From the artist's perspective, and I'm not sure if this would apply for sporting events and all that, I think they probably just want their fans to be paying a fair price.  Wild speculation on my part, but if someone pays silly money for a gig ticket or whatever, I'd have thought that there was as much chance of them being someone who has silly money kicking around as someone that really wants to go.  Roman Abramovic would probably cheerily pay a grand for an Oasis ticket, but that doesn't mean he's that into them, does it?

[Unabomber]

It's one of his shows where he road tests material for the TV programme.  I'm sure it'll be good, but when I saw Vegetable Stew a few years back it just meant that I'd seen half the telly programme when it came out.

 

 

From the artist's perspective, and I'm not sure if this would apply for sporting events and all that, I think they probably just want their fans to be paying a fair price.  Wild speculation on my part, but if someone pays silly money for a gig ticket or whatever, I'd have thought that there was as much chance of them being someone who has silly money kicking around as someone that really wants to go.  Roman Abramovic would probably cheerily pay a grand for an Oasis ticket, but that doesn't mean he's that into them, does it?

Yeah I have seen him twice before and one of the shows was basically what he was gonna do for his tv show. At least I think that was the case.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Yeah I have seen him twice before and one of the shows was basically what he was gonna do for his tv show. At least I think that was the case.

 

He tends to alternate between these and the shows written specifically for touring.  All of the latter that I've seen (and I think I've seen most of them now either live or on DVD) have been fantastic 

[Unabomber]

He tends to alternate between these and the shows written specifically for touring.  All of the latter that I've seen (and I think I've seen most of them now either live or on DVD) have been fantastic 

Same, he is probably my favourite comedian. 

[Voll Blau]

Would love to see Stewart Lee and Iron Maiden form a supergroup.

[GingerrrFox]

I'm against it. It's complete bollocks that with sophisticated computer programs a tout can bypass any measures placed on a website and buy as many tickets as they please only to sell them on at a huge mark up. I wanted to buy a ticket for an event, lowest price was £35 and highest was £100. In the online queue and they sold out. Half an hour later they were on sites such as Stubhub, the £35 seas were at an asking price of £100 and the £100 seats were well above £300 each. *****.

[Strokes]

I'm against it. It's complete bollocks that with sophisticated computer programs a tout can bypass any measures placed on a website and buy as many tickets as they please only to sell them on at a huge mark up. I wanted to buy a ticket for an event, lowest price was £35 and highest was £100. In the online queue and they sold out. Half an hour later they were on sites such as Stubhub, the £35 seas were at an asking price of £100 and the £100 seats were well above £300 each. *****.

It's supply and demand, if we all refused to pay touts it would stop.

[Samilktray]

Nike and a few other companies have employed technology on there websites to stop people using bots to purchase high profile trainer releases in bulk for resale. Surely ticket companies can do the same.

[Captain...]

I find it astounding that these sites can exist, there are 2 factors. One people who buy a ticket and genuinely can't go it is ridiculous that there isn't a function to sell them back to the ticketing site. When you have to buy tickets months in advance then can't go for whatever reason.

Then are those that actively seek to profit from the popularity of someone else, it is just leeching. It isn't just supply and demand it is manipulating the market by artificially decreasing supply to raise the price.

Then, surprise surprise, the resale sites are official partners of the ticketing sites just a pure scam, it really wouldn't surprise me if ticket master didn't allocate some tickets for getmein just to maximise profit all round.

[leicsmac]

I'm against it. It's complete bollocks that with sophisticated computer programs a tout can bypass any measures placed on a website and buy as many tickets as they please only to sell them on at a huge mark up. I wanted to buy a ticket for an event, lowest price was £35 and highest was £100. In the online queue and they sold out. Half an hour later they were on sites such as Stubhub, the £35 seas were at an asking price of £100 and the £100 seats were well above £300 each. *****.

 

This. It's essentially extortion when the price you might have to pay for a match or gig is many times what the face value is/should be thanks to some con artist with nifty computer software buying up all the tickets before anyone else can.

 

There should be better regulation surrounding this.

[leicsmac]

I find it astounding that these sites can exist, there are 2 factors. One people who buy a ticket and genuinely can't go it is ridiculous that there isn't a function to sell them back to the ticketing site. When you have to buy tickets months in advance then can't go for whatever reason.

Then are those that actively seek to profit from the popularity of someone else, it is just leeching. It isn't just supply and demand it is manipulating the market by artificially decreasing supply to raise the price.

Then, surprise surprise, the resale sites are official partners of the ticketing sites just a pure scam, it really wouldn't surprise me if ticket master didn't allocate some tickets for getmein just to maximise profit all round.

 

This too. And that is perfectly possible. Making money out of market manipulation is the perfect description for it.

[ADK]

It's not really any different to how most markets work though. People only ticket tout because they know it works. If everyone stopped buying from them then they would lose money and stop doing it.

[leicsmac]

It's not really any different to how most markets work though. People only ticket tout because they know it works. If everyone stopped buying from them then they would lose money and stop doing it.

 

It is different - it's artificially controlling the demand by a single user or group of users in a way that maximises profits, something that is legislated against in many other markets. It should be the same here.

[Bellend Sebastian]

It is different - it's artificially controlling the demand by a single user or group of users in a way that maximises profits, something that is legislated against in many other markets. It should be the same here.

 

I agree - it's artificially restricting supply, mainly because with limited vendors at outset it's relatively easy to do.

 

I suppose it's a bit like, I dunno, a company sending people round to every supermarket in an area just after the milk gets delivered, buying it all, and then instead of it being £1 for a four pinter, they'll let you have it for a fiver.

 

The only difference is that it's easier to buy up tickets than all the milk

[Guest MattP]

I have no problem with touts - I've used them tons of times for sporting events - if you clever you can often even get them cheaper from touts than face value as well as sponsors tickets often fall into their hands (England tests at home v minor nations that are nowhere near sold out, horse racing, Baseball in the US)

 

However this mass buying up of tickets online for huge events simply has to stop, why should a bot just be allowed to purcahsed a load of seats and then sell them independentely at a far greater price?, it needs mass regulation. 

 

I think we need a system where events that are classed as 'likely sell outs' should only be sold to individual people and it should be completely illegal to tout them online - In a similar why we have a protected sports rights for national TV rather than Sky for Wimbledon, World Cup, Grand National, Olympics etc.

[ADK]

Regardless of use of bots, there will always be an issue where price sets a level of demand greater than what can be supplied. The touts actually make it easier to get into events so long as you have the money.

[leicsmac]

Regardless of use of bots, there will always be an issue where price sets a level of demand greater than what can be supplied. The touts actually make it easier to get into events so long as you have the money.

 

And what about the people who can only afford face value? The face value that both the event organiser and the artist/sportsperson themselves (who is the most important person in this) have agreed on (possibly for the sake of actually being inclusive) but is now being manipulated by sharks looking for a quick buck at others expense?

[ADK]

And what about the people who can only afford face value? The face value that both the event organiser and the artist/sportsperson themselves (who is the most important person in this) have agreed on (possibly for the sake of actually being inclusive) but is now being manipulated by sharks looking for a quick buck at others expense?

 

If the artists don't want to allocate tickets based on the monetary system then they need to devise a system that complies with civil law that allocates based on what they actually want. You can't expect public money to be spent regulating this.