HSBC bank 'helped clients dodge millions in tax'

[Bellend Sebastian]

Oh alright then, I'll post it...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31248913

 

BOOM

[Finnegan]

Personally I'm shocked.

[lavrentis]

the bank doing their job in helping clients

[Bellend Sebastian]

Personally I'm shocked.

 

I'm shocked that they were careless enough to let it get out

 

the bank doing their job in helping clients

 

My bank has never offered to help me in this way.  I'm going down there at lunchtime to ask them what they're playing at

[ADK]

Sadly it's not really surprising.

[Buce]

Load of bankers.

[Bellend Sebastian]

It'll be interesting when the timeline of who knew what and when is established.

 

The main thrust of this seems to be that HMRC became aware of it when the current government was in power, but the wrong doings presumably extend back into the previous regime, so lots of questions to be answered by all sorts of folk.  Hope Gary Barlow's not a client, LOLZ etc

 

Obviously they're claiming that it's all in the past now, but they sacked their Head of Compliance after she voiced concerns it was still going on in 2013.  We all know that this sort of stuff has always gone on, but it's the tenacity with which they seem to want to keep doing it that amazes me

[Jon the Hat]

Interesting debate this.  HSBC has the right to offer banking in multiple jurisdictions, and people have the right to hold these accounts.  I guess they also have a right to not have their bank notifying anyone about their banking arrangements without a warrant of some sort.  Ultimately the individual is responsible for correctly filing their tax returns, and hence any items not included on it are their fault.  Beyond telling people they need to make sure they pay tax in all relevant jurisdictions, what are HSBC supposed to do here?  I wonder if they even know what the are being accused of doing wrong, or if banks these days are so used to the media accusing them of things that they just say sorry and try to move on.

[Christoph]

This is about as surprising as a melting chocolate teapot. Shame nothing will really happen. Nobody will be punished and life will go on as normal. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

Interesting debate this.  HSBC has the right to offer banking in multiple jurisdictions, and people have the right to hold these accounts.  I guess they also have a right to not have their bank notifying anyone about their banking arrangements without a warrant of some sort.  Ultimately the individual is responsible for correctly filing their tax returns, and hence any items not included on it are their fault.  Beyond telling people they need to make sure they pay tax in all relevant jurisdictions, what are HSBC supposed to do here?  I wonder if they even know what the are being accused of doing wrong, or if banks these days are so used to the media accusing them of things that they just say sorry and try to move on.

 

I'm no expert, beyond my occasional dabblings in offshore stuff via my work (all above board, of course) the European Savings Directive which came in (checks) 2005 obliges all European banks to disclose earnings on undeclared accounts to the relevant tax authorities.  What I believe they're being accused of here, is simply not doing that and helping clients avoid it, so if that's the case it's simple law breaking.

 

These banks really need to sort out their PR.  What's Max Clifford up to these days?  Oh right, yes

[Rincewind]

No shit Sherlock.

[Webbo]

Tax avoidance is legal and nobody should be criticised for using the loopholes that are there. tax evasion is another thing though and seems that in some cases the bank was complicite and legal procedures are appropriate where possible.

[Guest MattP]

Bank manager does his job shocker.

[Strokes]

It looks like they have crossed the line, I can't say as I don't really understand all these tax fiddle and banking requirements. I keep my tax fiddles simple, under the mattress/floorboards/missus' account/dogs account etc. I'm barely literate guv.

[Stadt]

It looks like they have crossed the line, I can't say as I don't really understand all these tax fiddle and banking requirements. I keep my tax fiddles simple, under the mattress/floorboards/missus' account/dogs account etc. I'm barely literate guv.

Knee surgery?

[lgfualol]

The government will "look into it" and then wait until we all forget so they don't upset their rich mates. 

[MooseBreath]

Could do with the opposition making a bit more noise about it. Trouble is they can't say anything because tax evasion was at its worst under labour and the tories have reined it in to some degree at least. Labour even went as far as a direct tax increase on the poorest working families to pay for it all, another thing reversed by the tories.

[Buce]

Bank manager does his job shocker.

I don't think colluding with criminals is part of the job description, although being the kind of person who would is probably a prerequisite for the job.

[Buce]

Could do with the opposition making a bit more noise about it. Trouble is they can't say anything because tax evasion was at its worst under labour and the tories have reined it in to some degree at least. Labour even went as far as a direct tax increase on the poorest working families to pay for it all, another thing reversed by the tories.

The government have had this information since 2010, yet have prosecuted precisely one tax-evader, and have recovered just £135 million out of an estimated £20 billion owed.

I would love to see a list of these people matched with a list of Tory doners.

[Jon the Hat]

The government have had this information since 2010, yet have prosecuted precisely one tax-evader, and have recovered just £135 million out of an estimated £20 billion owed.

I would love to see a list of these people matched with a list of Tory doners.

 

I seriously doubt HMRC are that political.  It is a pretty poor return though, I wonder what the real reasons are.

[Buce]

I seriously doubt HMRC are that political.

I think that's pretty naive, Jon; the 'old school-tie' is not just confined to parliament.

If it was £20 billion of benefit fraud, it would be an entirely different story.

[MooseBreath]

The government have had this information since 2010, yet have prosecuted precisely one tax-evader, and have recovered just £135 million out of an estimated £20 billion owed.

I would love to see a list of these people matched with a list of Tory doners.

Probably due to a lack of evidence of any laws actually being broken. You can't prosecute an individual who has avoided tax using perfectly legal methods. The issue here is whether HSBC should be giving such advice. I'm neither here nor there on their involvement. It was up to the government at the time to set up and manage appropriate regulation. Obviously, they failed.

[Buce]

Probably due to a lack of evidence of any laws actually being broken. You can't prosecute an individual who has avoided tax using perfectly legal methods. The issue here is whether HSBC should be giving such advice. I'm neither here nor there on their involvement. It was up to the government at the time to set up and manage appropriate regulation. Obviously, they failed.

There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion: HMBC have colluded with clients to criminally evade tax

There's a really interesting article in the on-line Grauniad, Moose. I can't link it from the app, but it's the top-story if you want to read it.

[Finnegan]

I love the inconsistency / hypocrisy in both left/right entrenched diatribe when it comes to tax/welfare.

Banks helping the mega rich / corporations avoid contributing millions to state? Good business sense / complete evil!

Unemployed single mother with five kids on benefit? Complete evil / needs our help.

Heh.

[MooseBreath]

There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion: HMBC have colluded with clients to criminally evade taxi

There's a really interesting article in the on-line Grauniad, Moose. I can't link it from the app, but it's the top-story if you want to read it.

I've read the guardian article and they do suggest that crimes have been committed. They would though, wouldn't they? Let's be honest. I'm not saying they're wrong but I'd definitely like to see much more detail from a more independent source about exactly which crimes have been committed and what the government should have done, if indeed they could have done any more than they did.