3 British girls run away to Syria

[davieG]

A view from a Telegraph Women's Editor

 

Stop pitying British schoolgirls joining Islamic State - they're not victims The latest British teen girls to join Islamic State are not 'missing' - they've joined a murderous cult of their own volition, argues Emma Barnett

By Emma Barnett, Women's Editor

1:33PM GMT 23 Feb 2015

 

All weekend a triptych of British girls’ faces have been staring out at the nation from newspapers and TV screens.

Shamima Begum (15), Amira Abase (15) and Kadiza Sultana (16) have legged it to join Islamic State in Syria. They eloped last week and by now are probably shacked up with a hipster jihadi, locked in their homes and expected to crack on with popping out a few kids to populate the Caliphate.

_{The girls, all pupils at Bethnal Green Academy in East London, on CCTV at Gatwick Airport}

And while I have full sympathy for their respective families who say they haven’t stopped crying since their departure, I am finding it hard to feel the same for the girls.

If you knew nothing about the situation, you could be forgiven for believing these school girls had been abducted. The headline ‘missing girls’ screams out from televisions across the country today. This is the way rolling news channels are choosing to present their story and yet it couldn’t be further from the truth.

While I accept they have fallen prey to Isil’s digital propaganda machine, these teen girls aren’t stupid. Far from it. In fact they are all grade-A students at the Bethnal Green Academy in Tower Hamlets. We are told by their worried friends and family that they are thoughtful and intelligent people.

Bizarrely many of the estimated 550 Western women who have chosen to make this journey to join Isil are simlarly well-educated and well-informed. Aqsa Mahmood, 20, is a case in point. Glasgow-born and privately educated – she is now married to an Isil fighter in Syria and is mother to his children. She calls for her fellow Muslims in the West to copy murders like that of Fusilier Lee Rigby. Nice.

And yet people insist upon dismissing these girls as victims – bestowing them with pity instead of the anger and scorn that is lavished upon the young Western men joining Isil.

We dismiss these girls as mere jihadi brides, unable to make their own decisions, at our peril, as I’ve written before.

It’s old school sexism in a foreign environment.

Melanie Smith, a research associate at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation, at King’s College London, has revealed these women’s less benign role and has collated the only known register of Western female recruits. In the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the anti- Islamisation marches in Germany, she has found that the number of young European women being recruited is rising.

Western female jihadis are not just playing the roles of dutiful wives and mothers. No: the harmless “jihadi bride” is anything but. While women are prevented from fighting by Sharia law, which Isil adheres to, the female jihadi is now chief recruiter, groomer and propagandist for this murderous cult.

Messages on Twitter and Tumblr from Western women who have joined Isil encourage their European sisters to travel to Syria, or carry out terrorist attacks on their home soil. Their appeal is powerful and growing.

Make no mistake: Shamima Begum, Amira Abase and Kadiza Sultana are not missing. They have joined a murderous cult of their own volition – just like their Western male counterparts. Yes, they happen to be women - but they are still sentient beings – capable of knowing right from wrong.

So don’t dole out sympathy to them just because of their gender. Instead, serve them up an equal helping of that anger which society seems to reserve solely for men who do wrong.

[m4DD0gg]

[ADK]

I would say that they have to be classed as victims simply because they are legally children.

 

In the same way a girl who had travelled to a foreign country to have sex with someone they met online would be seen as a victim.

 

You aren't allowed to enter into a contract at that age or to vote or consent to sex, I don't see how you can be capable of joining a terrorist organisation in the eyes of the law either.

 

I find all these white middle class liberal feminists deciding to denounce these children a bit hypocritical, and are they so annoyed because these young girls have (probably) joined ISIS, or is because they've rejected the white middle class feminist ideal in favour of an extreme socially conservative one? They are quite eager to imagine these girls being locked up and forced to have sex, which I find a bit nauseating to be honest. Especially when so far, they are not actually guilty of anything criminal.

[FoxInTheBirstallBox]

Can we just all agree that we hope ISIS mess about with north Korea and then North korea level the whole city and the western worl pretends that we didnt see anything and let Korea carry on eating dogs bullocks

[GaelicFox]

Can we just all agree that we hope ISIS mess about with north Korea and then North korea level the whole city and the western worl pretends that we didnt see anything and let Korea carry on eating dogs bullocks

Get you on the UN Security Council

[Dr The Singh]

First Russian brides, then Thai brides and now Isil Brides. Why can't these people just go to nightclubs or join Tinder.

Saying that, I wouldn't mind a Isil bride

[Guest MattP]

Good read the Telegraph article, all our sympathies should be with the women who have no choice but to live under the brutal regime of ISIS.

Picked up a copy of the Guardian last night and to my surprise there was an article in there pretty much mirroring that telegraph one saying we shouldn't waste our time over these girls.

It's only on this website I've found any widespread sympathy and grief for these three girls.

[leicsmac]

Good read the Telegraph article, all our sympathies should be with the women who have no choice but to live under the brutal regime of ISIS.

Picked up a copy of the Guardian last night and to my surprise there was an article in there pretty much mirroring that telegraph one saying we shouldn't waste our time over these girls.

It's only on this website I've found any widespread sympathy and grief for these three girls.

 

Speaking for myself, my sympathy would be given or not given purely dependent on the exact circumstances of them going to Syria (which no one but they will know). If they've swallowed the rubbish about being martyrs to the great cause given to them by a series of speakers both over the Internet and in real life, then I do have some sympathy because this is hardly the first time ego massaging has made people do grotesquely stupid things.

 

If, however, they have just looked at what ISIS are doing and have read the accounts of the Jihadist wives and thought, "I'd like some of that," then my sympathy for them is very, very limited.

 

The truth is we simply don't know the circumstances, and I'm not willing to condemn these three girls until I can be sure what they have done is entirely of their own free will.

[Guest MattP]

But as has been said these are highly intelligent academic young girls. Nothing at all suggests they have been brainwashed. You never see any sympathy for young male fighters going out there.

I really can't understand why we can't get our head around the fact some Muslim women as well as men have sympathies with Islamic state.

There is never a shortage of women when you look at one of the Mujahaddeens protests in London, I'm sure there are many more women here who would prefer to live in Islamic State that Britain, why should we stop them?

[Finnegan]

Sympathy is an awkward word but I find it sad, personally, when anyone born and raised here feels the need to go to join jihad. Regardless of their age or gender.

I think it's pretty tragic. It's even more tragic when we're talking about highly impressionable teenagers.

Highly educated? Behave yourself. Good schooling doesn't turn a fifteen year old wise.

[Guest MattP]

They achieve good grades, they are clearly very intelligent girls. That's beyond doubt.

Certainly girls who would know exactly what ISIL are about and the actions that they carry out.

Makes excuses all you want, if you think they are blind to what they were going into you'll be disappointed.

Again, why are we surprised some young British girls would have sympathies with these groups? We've already seen hundreds of are young men go there to give their life for the cause.

[leicsmac]

But as has been said these are highly intelligent academic young girls. Nothing at all suggests they have been brainwashed. You never see any sympathy for young male fighters going out there.

I really can't understand why we can't get our head around the fact some Muslim women as well as men have sympathies with Islamic state.

There is never a shortage of women when you look at one of the Mujahaddeens protests in London, I'm sure there are many more women here who would prefer to live in Islamic State that Britain, why should we stop them?

 

But we simply don't know. That's the point. Show proof that they made this decision that they went out there on their own with no lead-in via the Internet from someone else and I'll condemn them all you want.

 

And as Finn says below, it makes me sad rather than angry when someone born and raised here feels the need to join up with a bunch of murdering psychopaths, regardless of their gender.

 

Sympathy is an awkward word but I find it sad, personally, when anyone born and raised here feels the need to go to join jihad. Regardless of their age or gender.

I think it's pretty tragic. It's even more tragic when we're talking about highly impressionable teenagers.

Highly educated? Behave yourself. Good schooling doesn't turn a fifteen year old wise.

 

This.

[Guest MattP]

Wouldn't most of the commited atheists on here pretty much be in agreement they've already been brainwashed anyway given their religious views?

[Guest MattP]

But we simply don't know. That's the point. Show proof that they made this decision that they went out there on their own with no lead-in via the Internet from someone else and I'll condemn them all you want.

.

So yet again, why do we immediately condemn the young males whatever but reserve such judgement for the females?

[Finnegan]

They achieve good grades, they are clearly very intelligent girls. That's beyond doubt.

Certainly girls who would know exactly what ISIL are about and the actions that they carry out.

Makes excuses all you want, if you think they are blind to what they were going into you'll be disappointed.

Again, why are we surprised some young British girls would have sympathies with these groups? We've already seen hundreds of are young men go there to give their life for the cause.

Intelligence and wisdom are completely different things.

They may have good iq, they may get good test scores but absolutely all fifteen year olds - bar none - are stupid.

I wouldn't let any of them vote, there are times I think 18 is too young. If you're not old enough to have a meaningless vote for a bland suit that's no different to the other bland suit then you're definitely not old enough to decide you support a bunch of gun wielding cowboy cultists.

At fifteen I was an A* student, I was far too clever for my own good and a tight cocky shit with it (surprise!) but I still thought the FAW, MAC and Meibion Glyndwr were cool and I'd have probably gone off burning holiday homes if the opportunity arose.

Why? Because teenagers are ****ing stupid.

[cambridgefox]

Sympathy is an awkward word but I find it sad, personally, when anyone born and raised here feels the need to go to join jihad. Regardless of their age or gender.

I think it's pretty tragic. It's even more tragic when we're talking about highly impressionable teenagers.

Highly educated? Behave yourself. Good schooling doesn't turn a fifteen year old wise.

Very well put.My daughter is nearly 15,she has started her GCSE coursework and got A * in everything so far,so you would say academically educated.Get in the real world and you listen to her friends conversations get out of control ,the conspiracy theories they come out with would make Zingari seem right!!one says something and they all get in a flap and believe it's true.Highly uneducated in things of the real world and very impressionable .

However she has not once wanted to blow anything upor run away with someone off the internet .

[leicsmac]

So yet again, why do we immediately condemn the young males whatever but reserve such judgement for the females?

 

As I said above, I don't. I'm sad rather than angry that a disaffected young person of any gender feels the need to throw their lot in with scumbag ideological killers, and that we should really do more to stop such things at the source rather than letting impressionable people get twisted by death-worshipping fascists. It's they who the anger should be reserved for, not those they have corrupted.

 

Wouldn't most of the commited atheists on here pretty much be in agreement they've already been brainwashed anyway given their religious views?

 

An antitheist might. For me, I think religion is fine as long as you keep it private and personal to yourself.

[johnny the fox]

Well ......look at it like this, a least the vast amount of monies we have invested into their extensive education has not gone to waste...

[Guest MattP]

Intelligence and wisdom are completely different things.

They may have good iq, they may get good test scores but absolutely all fifteen year olds - bar none - are stupid.

I wouldn't let any of them vote, there are times I think 18 is too young. If you're not old enough to have a meaningless vote for a bland suit that's no different to the other bland suit then you're definitely not old enough to decide you support a bunch of gun wielding cowboy cultists.

At fifteen I was an A* student, I was far too clever for my own good and a tight cocky shit with it (surprise!) but I still thought the FAW, MAC and Meibion Glyndwr were cool and I'd have probably gone off burning holiday homes if the opportunity arose.

Why? Because teenagers are ****ing stupid.

 

You still are

 

You can't really complain about MB using hyperbole and then use this, we are talking about far different scenarios here, running away to join ISIS whose activities are well publicised is in no way comparable to normal teenage stupidity. Do a lot of teenagers do stupid things? Yes. Do they often run off to join terrorist networks? No. The vast majority of ten years olds do stupid stuff as well but 99.99999% don't go and tie a kid to the traintracks as well ala Jamie Bulger because they realise the severity of what they are doing even at that age.

 

It's all well and good saying you might have probably gone off burning holiday homes if the opportunity arose, but the fact is you didn't. Probably because you were actually educated enough even at that age to realise it was wrong, it certainly would have been far easier for you to get to North Wales to engage in that than for these three girls to get to Syria but you chose not to.

 

 

As I said above, I don't. I'm sad rather than angry that a disaffected young person of any gender feels the need to throw their lot in with scumbag ideological killers, and that we should really do more to stop such things at the source rather than letting impressionable people get twisted by death-worshipping fascists. It's they who the anger should be reserved for, not those they have corrupted.

 

Have you ever heard a story where a young male ISIS fighter has been described as being 'groomed'? If three 15/16 year old boys had gone out to join this, I doubt the chivalric media would be sympathising with them as victims to this extent. Gender is playing a massive role in the coverage of this story.

 

Yet again you are presuming these people are impressionable and are being got at, nothing yet suggests that, they have clearly been in contact with that Scottish Jihadi bride and she's put a positive spin on it, they might actually want this and you shouldn't presume they don't, there is no shortage of men willin to go, so why not women? How do you know these aren't like thousands of the others that want and enjoy this lifestyle?

 

The last news bulletins they’ll have heard about Isis before making for Istanbul would have been about the beheadings of Coptic Christians by jihadists in Libya, they still went.

 

 

I'm going to withdraw from this debate now as it's getting me worked up in a similar way to the Rotherham grooming thread (my word I wish there was that much sympathy and concern from all corners for those 1,400 girls actually being groomed to do horrific things) did and I said if that happened on here again I would. I have to think of my blood pressure these days.

[leicsmac]

You still are

 

You can't really complain about MB using hyperbole and then use this, we are talking about far different scenarios here, running away to join ISIS whose activities are well publicised is in no way comparable to normal teenage stupidity. Do a lot of teenagers do stupid things? Yes. Do they often run off to join terrorist networks? No. The vast majority of ten years olds do stupid stuff as well but 99.99999% don't go and tie a kid to the traintracks as well ala Jamie Bulger because they realise the severity of what they are doing even at that age.

 

It's all well and good saying you might have probably gone off burning holiday homes if the opportunity arose, but the fact is you didn't. Probably because you were actually educated enough even at that age to realise it was wrong, it certainly would have been far easier for you to get to North Wales to engage in that than for these three girls to get to Syria but you chose not to.

 

 

 

Have you ever heard a story where a young male ISIS fighter has been described as being 'groomed'? If three 15/16 year old boys had gone out to join this, I doubt the chivalric media would be sympathising with them as victims to this extent. Gender is playing a massive role in the coverage of this story.

 

Yet again you are presuming these people are impressionable and are being got at, nothing yet suggests that, they have clearly been in contact with that Scottish Jihadi bride and she's put a positive spin on it, they might actually want this and you shouldn't presume they don't, there is no shortage of men willin to go, so why not women? How do you know these aren't like thousands of the others that want and enjoy this lifestyle?

 

The last news bulletins they’ll have heard about Isis before making for Istanbul would have been about the beheadings of Coptic Christians by jihadists in Libya, they still went.

 

 

I'm going to withdraw from this debate now as it's getting me worked up in a similar way to the Rotherham grooming thread did and I said if that happened on here again I would. I have to think of my blood pressure these days.

 

Fair enough. This is as good a spot as any to agree to disagree.

[johnny the fox]

"jihadi" john named .....Mohammed Emwazi..  a London lad..

[Head Honcho]

"jihadi" john named .....Mohammed Emwazi..  a London lad..

Well I hope his family are shitting themselves right now...but knowing us we'll already have them in police protection.

[davieG]

IS militant 'Jihadi John' named as Mohammed Emwazi from London

 

The masked militant first appeared in numerous gruesome videos put out by Islamic State, as Lucy Manning reports

 

The masked Islamic State militant known as "Jihadi John", who has been pictured in the videos of the beheadings of Western hostages, has been named.

The BBC understands he is Mohammed Emwazi, a Kuwaiti-born British man in his mid-20s from West London, who was known to UK security services.

They chose not to disclose his name earlier for operational reasons.

Emwazi first appeared in a video last August, when he apparently killed the American journalist James Foley.

He was later thought to have been pictured in the videos of the beheadings of US journalist Steven Sotloff, British aid worker David Haines, British taxi driver Alan Henning, and American aid worker Abdul-Rahman Kassig, also known as Peter.

In each of the videos, the militant appeared dressed in a black robe with a black balaclava covering all but his eyes and top of his nose.

Analysis: Dominic Casciani, BBC News

We don't know when the British or the American security services worked out that the masked man in the killing videos was Londoner Mohammed Emwazi.

But we do know that he was a "person of interest" to MI5 going back to at least 2011 because he features in semi-secret court cases relating to extremism overseas and back in the UK.

Nobody in official security circles is going to comment on what they know and why they know it.

Emwazi has been previously described as a member of a network involving at least 13 men from London - and at least two of them were subjected to house arrest control orders or T-Pims. One absconded. The chances of Emwazi ever returning to the UK are vanishingly small.

@BBCDomC

Speaking with a British accent, he taunted and threatened Western powers before holding his knife to the hostages' necks, appearing to start to cutting before the film stops.

Last month, the militant appeared in a video with the Japanese hostages Haruna Yukawa and Kenji Goto, shortly before they were killed.

BBC News special correspondent Lucy Manning says Emwazi is understood to be around 27 years of age.

Friends of Emzawi told the Washington Post that he was raised in a middle class area of West London and studied computer programming at the University of Westminster.

Our correspondent says it is believed he was known to security services in the UK and the US before leaving for Syria and was linked to a man with connections to the jihadist militant group al-Shabab, in Somalia.

The Washington Post said he was believed to have travelled to Syria around 2012 and later joined Islamic State, which has declared the creation of a "caliphate" in the large swathes of Syria and neighbouring Iraq it controls.

British police declined to comment on the reports.

Commander Richard Walton, head of the Metropolitan Police's Counter Terrorism Command, said: "We have previously asked media outlets not to speculate about the details of our investigation on the basis that life is at risk.

"We are not going to confirm the identity of anyone at this stage or give an update on the progress of this live counter-terrorism investigation."

[GaelicFox]

What a knob this man his outfit are !!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2970521/Outrage-group-blames-MI5-radicalising-extremely-kind-Jihadi-John-fled-Syria-kill-people-ISIS.html

[johnny the fox]

What a knob this man his outfit are !!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2970521/Outrage-group-blames-MI5-radicalising-extremely-kind-Jihadi-John-fled-Syria-kill-people-ISIS.html

The clown is just an apologist for a psychopath... shameful.