fleckneymike Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Burnley are not doing much better than us. There fans supported them to the end of of a massive result against Man City last night. Our support has been the most disappointing part of this seasons or mea.peoplehad given up and started booing the team by January. Admittedly it's being a disappointing season, but booing and groaning at games isnt going to get us out of this shit! Supporting the team and getting behind every player and pass and making the walkers a den, will make a difference. Not that it will ever happen, too many glory supporting, moaning so and so's at this club. Lest we forget that we are apparently better than Burnley in every depatment.
Raj Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Lest we forget that we are apparently better than Burnley in every depatment.And don't forget Pearson can look after himself
Donut Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 And don't forget Pearson can look after himself Have you finished? good. P.rick.
inckley fox Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Bored to tears of this guys waffle now. Has an argument for every scenario and yet only serves to look silly. Ignore button. I think that's a bit unfair. He's had a habit of being drawn into arguments about the manager which haven't reflected too well on him (for instance, the 'I'd rather Pearson stay and us get relegated than stay up without him' rubbish), but he makes some good points in Pearson's defence and far more so with reference to other aspects of the game. But yes, nobody helps themselves, I suppose, if they appear to be too intransigent. I still believe those remaining in the Pearson In camp have a valid argument for him to stay, but it depends on accepting that (a) our aim should be to forge a side which can stay in the PL, and not in the distant, distant future and (b) that Pearson needs to show some sign, soon, of being able to deliver that; for example by results picking up or appearing to get better at handling pressure. While we appear to be taking backward steps there's no point arguing that we are actually taking forward steps, or that we have no right to think we can play at the highest level. This is where the pro-Pearson argument has been so badly flawed, and for quite some time. Personally I 'turned' about three weeks ago, but a lot of that was because of how dreadful some of the arguments were that were being proposed by people who, in theory, I should have been agreeing with. There is still a chance that Pearson could help us fulfil our ambitions, but the evidence for this is limited. He's going to have to provide us with some such evidence pretty soon if the argument is to hold any sway whatsoever. His supporters tend to prefer to fantasise; that there haven't been alternatives (well, there was Pulis and Sherwood, and most of our historically successful managers were unproven when they came to the club - why not bring one such manager in and give him a chance to learn between now and the end of the season?), that Pearson is some kind of god-like figure, better than O'Neill, and we owe everything to him (not only wrong, but the same people rallied against Lineker - who really DID save the club - in Pearson's favour a few weeks ago), that our expectations are unrealistic (what? in wanting to stay up? How unambitious can you be?), that in no way has he looked to be buckling under the pressure (when all the world can see he is) and that he will learn (with no evidence to back this up, either). Some of the posts in his defence have been so absurd, at times rooted in hope, or a tendency to put Pearson ahead of the club's welfare, that it's understandable people will get fed up with his staunchest supporters. But I'd never put Babylon or MC Prussian or Mark on ignore, because I actually agree with a huge amount of what they say. But when it was said that most fans are behind him, I think the truth - garbage about a 'poisonous atmosphere' aside - is that people do respect what he's done. I'd never dream of chanting against a good servant to my club, for instance, and yet I firmly believe he should be gone.
Donut Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 I think that's a bit unfair. He's had a habit of being drawn into arguments about the manager which haven't reflected too well on him (for instance, the 'I'd rather Pearson stay and us get relegated than stay up without him' rubbish), but he makes some good points in Pearson's defence and far more so with reference to other aspects of the game. But yes, nobody helps themselves, I suppose, if they appear to be too intransigent. I still believe those remaining in the Pearson In camp have a valid argument for him to stay, but it depends on accepting that (a) our aim should be to forge a side which can stay in the PL, and not in the distant, distant future and (b) that Pearson needs to show some sign, soon, of being able to deliver that; for example by results picking up or appearing to get better at handling pressure. While we appear to be taking backward steps there's no point arguing that we are actually taking forward steps, or that we have no right to think we can play at the highest level. This is where the pro-Pearson argument has been so badly flawed, and for quite some time. Personally I 'turned' about three weeks ago, but a lot of that was because of how dreadful some of the arguments were that were being proposed by people who, in theory, I should have been agreeing with. There is still a chance that Pearson could help us fulfil our ambitions, but the evidence for this is limited. He's going to have to provide us with some such evidence pretty soon if the argument is to hold any sway whatsoever. His supporters tend to prefer to fantasise; that there haven't been alternatives (well, there was Pulis and Sherwood, and most of our historically successful managers were unproven when they came to the club - why not bring one such manager in and give him a chance to learn between now and the end of the season?), that Pearson is some kind of god-like figure, better than O'Neill, and we owe everything to him (not only wrong, but the same people rallied against Lineker - who really DID save the club - in Pearson's favour a few weeks ago), that our expectations are unrealistic (what? in wanting to stay up? How unambitious can you be?), that in no way has he looked to be buckling under the pressure (when all the world can see he is) and that he will learn (with no evidence to back this up, either). Some of the posts in his defence have been so absurd, at times rooted in hope, or a tendency to put Pearson ahead of the club's welfare, that it's understandable people will get fed up with his staunchest supporters. But I'd never put Babylon or MC Prussian or Mark on ignore, because I actually agree with a huge amount of what they say. But when it was said that most fans are behind him, I think the truth - garbage about a 'poisonous atmosphere' aside - is that people do respect what he's done. I'd never dream of chanting against a good servant to my club, for instance, and yet I firmly believe he should be gone. A fair point well made. I do respect what Pearson has achieved here, but as a club we can do much more.
MC Prussian Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 I think that's a bit unfair. He's had a habit of being drawn into arguments about the manager which haven't reflected too well on him (for instance, the 'I'd rather Pearson stay and us get relegated than stay up without him' rubbish), but he makes some good points in Pearson's defence and far more so with reference to other aspects of the game. But yes, nobody helps themselves, I suppose, if they appear to be too intransigent. I still believe those remaining in the Pearson In camp have a valid argument for him to stay, but it depends on accepting that (a) our aim should be to forge a side which can stay in the PL, and not in the distant, distant future and (b) that Pearson needs to show some sign, soon, of being able to deliver that; for example by results picking up or appearing to get better at handling pressure. While we appear to be taking backward steps there's no point arguing that we are actually taking forward steps, or that we have no right to think we can play at the highest level. This is where the pro-Pearson argument has been so badly flawed, and for quite some time. Personally I 'turned' about three weeks ago, but a lot of that was because of how dreadful some of the arguments were that were being proposed by people who, in theory, I should have been agreeing with. There is still a chance that Pearson could help us fulfil our ambitions, but the evidence for this is limited. He's going to have to provide us with some such evidence pretty soon if the argument is to hold any sway whatsoever. His supporters tend to prefer to fantasise; that there haven't been alternatives (well, there was Pulis and Sherwood, and most of our historically successful managers were unproven when they came to the club - why not bring one such manager in and give him a chance to learn between now and the end of the season?), that Pearson is some kind of god-like figure, better than O'Neill, and we owe everything to him (not only wrong, but the same people rallied against Lineker - who really DID save the club - in Pearson's favour a few weeks ago), that our expectations are unrealistic (what? in wanting to stay up? How unambitious can you be?), that in no way has he looked to be buckling under the pressure (when all the world can see he is) and that he will learn (with no evidence to back this up, either). Some of the posts in his defence have been so absurd, at times rooted in hope, or a tendency to put Pearson ahead of the club's welfare, that it's understandable people will get fed up with his staunchest supporters. But I'd never put Babylon or MC Prussian or Mark on ignore, because I actually agree with a huge amount of what they say. But when it was said that most fans are behind him, I think the truth - garbage about a 'poisonous atmosphere' aside - is that people do respect what he's done. I'd never dream of chanting against a good servant to my club, for instance, and yet I firmly believe he should be gone. Except for the fact that I've never said that - I've always maintained my stance that we'd have a much better chance getting promoted again with Pearson in charge in case of relegation back to the Championship. Period. No one claims the manager is a god-like figure, if at all he's been the target of some ludicrous and negative media hype, believed by some very gullible fans. We owe him for what he's achieved with us in the Championship (and League One, as well). Everybody knows this is a different ballgame altogether, especially in terms of quality of opposition. What are "our expectations"? Groups of fans have different expectations - some of us were certain to stay up, others certain we'd go straight down and some are simply desperate to see us remain in this league. Like I've stated on many, many occasions, we have to fight for the right to stay in the Premier League. If we can't do that, we don't deserve to be among the country's Top 20. And will have to start anew, with a new/different impetus. Pearson has shown that he can learn - unfortunately, in this unforgiving league, not fast enough for a particular portion of the fanbase. The only few times I've seen Pearson lose his temper was when he was faced with idiotic media approaches. Nowhere near as bad or manic as the people who've never liked him in the first place are trying to make out.
Raj Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Have you finished? good. P.rick.Oh dear...!!!Donut by username....
apollo4joe Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Going back to the original post I expected to at least be competitive, especially with getting 102points last season. We are the cannon fodder this year, look at yesterday the best 2 chances fell to Hull and it shows how rubbish as Premiership team we are. That's why we have 19 points in March
Soar Fox Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Oh dear...!!! Donut by username.... I think he was being sarcastic Raj. Very much doubt he was insulting, more just taking the piss because of what Pearson said yesterday.
Donut Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 I think he was being sarcastic Raj. Very much doubt he was insulting, more just taking the piss because of what Pearson said yesterday. Thanks for adding that, it was in sarcasm at yesterdays events. It doesnt come over well in typing. Sorry if offended.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Yes this season hasn't been as easy as we had likes but who expected it to? We are not in the best place but we are not relegated yet, why is everyone on here so damn angry and disgusted? Is the rollercoaster of football not exciting? Do you really want to have the boring life of being a Villa fan? Lets all slate the players because we wish we were top of the league...oh well. They are not all crap, they are developing and if we do go down then why the hell would Pearson not be the man to get us out or at least have a go? Who would you rather have? Calm down people, worst things happen at sea and believe me I want us to stay up as I am due to lose £500 in bets to Forest fans if we go down. That's life. Christ almighty! Tell me it's a wind up.
inckley fox Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 Except for the fact that I've never said that - I've always maintained my stance that we'd have a much better chance getting promoted again with Pearson in charge in case of relegation back to the Championship. Period. No one claims the manager is a god-like figure, if at all he's been the target of some ludicrous and negative media hype, believed by some very gullible fans. We owe him for what he's achieved with us in the Championship (and League One, as well). Everybody knows this is a different ballgame altogether, especially in terms of quality of opposition. What are "our expectations"? Groups of fans have different expectations - some of us were certain to stay up, others certain we'd go straight down and some are simply desperate to see us remain in this league. Like I've stated on many, many occasions, we have to fight for the right to stay in the Premier League. If we can't do that, we don't deserve to be among the country's Top 20. And will have to start anew, with a new/different impetus. Pearson has shown that he can learn - unfortunately, in this unforgiving league, not fast enough for a particular portion of the fanbase. The only few times I've seen Pearson lose his temper was when he was faced with idiotic media approaches. Nowhere near as bad or manic as the people who've never liked him in the first place are trying to make out. No, I know you didn't personally propose that point of view, it was just an example of the silly arguments made in the manager's defence. I apologise if the wording made it seem like you were of this view. But I'd say a few things regarding your opinion that we have a better chance going up under Pearson. Firstly, that voluntary managerial changes - i.e. sackings - have tended to work out well in our history (Lee for Pleat, Little for Lee, Bassett/Adams for Taylor, Kelly for Levein, Sven for Sousa, Pearson for Sven), as have some involuntary changes, so a change at the right time (you might argue some of the above changes should have happened sooner), as we've seen, is important. We needn't fear it just because Levein, Allen and Holloway were poor managers in a far more difficult era. Plenty of other sides have made very successful managerial appointments while we've been making bad ones. Secondly, that we won't be going down with the side that got us up. We'll go into the second tier with some key performers from last season vastly demoralised (Schmeichel, Drinkwater, Vardy, Nugent, Morgan, Moore, De Laet, King have all been poor this year; we've seen the effect that a miserable season can have on a player's season), others gone / too old (Dyer, Wasilewski, Konchesky), others most probably on their way out (Mahrez, Knockaert). In fact, we came up with a relatively young first team and we're going down with a very old one. Partnerships within the side won't be what they were a year ago. And whereas players once believed that there was an 'aura' about Pearson, now they will see that he is flawed; that he's no 'chosen one'. Their confidence in him won't be what it was. And in this league he hasn't shown any evidence of getting better, contrary to what you say. Indeed, quite the opposite has been true. That's the case whether you judge him on behaviour or results. It isn't 'ludicrous hype' as you put it, he has been warned about his conduct for putting his hands around an opposition player's throat, did instigate a row with Lineker, did yell 'f*** off and die' at the stands and get banned for it, is refusing to speak to local radio, did call another journalist a '****', and his results have been appalling. These things are just true, they're not inventions. Finally, it's worth pointing out that we took two-and-a-half years, much of it as favourites and with the best-funded, most expensive side in the division, to go up with him last time. We have an old team, our oldest in a generation, and no guarantees of the same funding. FFP may well make such spending impossible. Before that he had another season with us in this league, and one-and-a-half with recently relegated Hull, who didn't make the play-offs in his first year and weren't in the play-offs when he resigned. Even his past record offers few guarantees; when you consider the circumstances you'd have to be quite an optimist to back him this time around.
Raj Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 God its getting so bad in here I can't judge someone hammering or joking!!. Sorry donut!!! ...f0ck off and die!!!(joke!)
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 15 March 2015 Posted 15 March 2015 No, I know you didn't personally propose that point of view, it was just an example of the silly arguments made in the manager's defence. I apologise if the wording made it seem like you were of this view. But I'd say a few things regarding your opinion that we have a better chance going up under Pearson. Firstly, that voluntary managerial changes - i.e. sackings - have tended to work out well in our history (Lee for Pleat, Little for Lee, Bassett/Adams for Taylor, Kelly for Levein, Sven for Sousa, Pearson for Sven), as have some involuntary changes, so a change at the right, as we've seen, is important. We needn't fear it just because Levein, Allen and Holloway were poor managers in a far more difficult era. Plenty of other sides have made very successful managerial appointments while we've been making bad ones. Secondly, that we won't be going down with the side that got us up. We'll go into the second tier with some key performers from last season vastly demoralised (Schmeichel, Drinkwater, Vardy, Nugent, Morgan, Moore, De Laet, King have all been poor this year; we've seen the effect that a miserable season can have on a player's season), others gone / too old (Dyer, Wasilewski, Konchesky), others most probably on their way out (Mahrez, Knockaert). In fact, we came up with a relatively young first team and we're going down with a very old one. Partnerships within the side won't be what they were a year ago. And whereas players once believed that there was an 'aura' about Pearson, now they will see that he is flawed; that he's no 'chosen one'. Their confidence in him won't be what it was. And in this league he hasn't shown any evidence of getting better, contrary to what you say. Indeed, quite the opposite has been true. That's the case whether you judge him on behaviour or results. It isn't 'ludicrous hype' as you put it, he has been warned about his conduct from putting his hands around an opposition player's throat, did instigate a row with Lineker, did yell 'f*** off and die' at the stands and get banned for it, is refusing to speak to local radio, did call another journalist a '****', and his results have been appalling. These things are just true, they're not inventions. Finally, it's worth pointing out that we took two-and-a-half years, much of it as favourites and with the best-funded, most expensive side in the division, to go up with him last time. We have an old team, our oldest in a generation, and no guarantees of the same funding. FFP may well make such spending impossible. Before that he had another season with us in this league, and one-and-a-half with recently relegated Hull, who didn't make the play-offs in his first year and weren't in the play-offs when he resigned. Even his past record offers few guarantees; but when you consider the circumstances you'd have to be quite an optimist to back him this time around. Well said. M C will be cobbling up another gem, shortly
HesNotGudjonsonn2 Posted 17 June 2015 Author Posted 17 June 2015 I just re read through this thread, well the first page anyway. I just found it amusing because the reason i ever posted it was because I never ever believed we were going to get relegated and wanted to spread some optimism. I noticed how shot down I got for this so just wanted to bump it up again as last time I looked, we stayed up. Always knew we would. 'Mischievously opening an old can of worms as I'm a little bored'
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 17 June 2015 Posted 17 June 2015 I just re read through this thread, well the first page anyway. I just found it amusing because the reason i ever posted it was because I never ever believed we were going to get relegated and wanted to spread some optimism. I noticed how shot down I got for this so just wanted to bump it up again as last time I looked, we stayed up. Always knew we would. 'Mischievously opening an old can of worms as I'm a little bored' Have you only just realised we stayed up or what?
Dan Posted 17 June 2015 Posted 17 June 2015 The faith is admirable but I cannot believe anyone logically saw what was coming last season. It was miraculous. Nothing short of that.
HesNotGudjonsonn2 Posted 17 June 2015 Author Posted 17 June 2015 Perhaps I am a person with truly psychic powers....I am not saying that I was and I am not saying that I wasn't but you have never seen me and Mystic Meg in the same room. Coincidence?
Bagworthblue Posted 17 June 2015 Posted 17 June 2015 it's strange but whilst my head was telling me we were relegated, Deep down I had this strange feeling we wouldn't get relegated !! I never managed to shake this feeling even though I felt a complete dick for even allowing myself to have such a feeling. I remember a lot of people saying they just had this sense we would stay up! Maybe it's that 80% part of the brain nobody has yet worked out how to tap into or maybe I was just being a dick and got lucky!
The Year Of The Fox Posted 18 June 2015 Posted 18 June 2015 The faith is admirable but I cannot believe anyone logically saw what was coming last season. It was miraculous. Nothing short of that. There's two different things there Dan I honestly never thought we'd go down, at any point this season. However, I certainly didn't expect that we needed to go on such a winning streak in order to be safe. First time I've read this thread today and its reminded me why I don't bother coming on when we lose
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