The Politics Thread

[The Doctor]

That Boris face - almost as good as the tennis

 

 

 

King's got some competition for best facial expressions. 

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34537841

AAAAHAHAHAHAGAHAGAHAHHHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OMG I CAN'T BREATHE

Wtf OMYGOD ****ing amazing.

HIS FACE. AAAAHAHAHAHAGAHAGAHAHHHH!!!

 

That face was hilarious. I understand he said "the little chap was alright when he saw him later"

[Benji]

That face was hilarious. I understand he said "the little chap was alright when he saw him later"

thank God he said chap...

[Guest MattP]

Was having a conversation in the newsagents with my local councillor this morning and we were having a chat about the fiscal charter, why did the Labour whips office let out the names of those who had abstained? This isn't normal practice at all and left them open to all sorts of unpleasentness from the online mob.

 

Has Corbyn now outsourced party discipline to Twitter?

[Guest]

Was having a conversation in the newsagents with my local councillor this morning and we were having a chat about the fiscal charter, why did the Labour whips office let out the names of those who had abstained? This isn't normal practice at all and left them open to all sorts of unpleasentness from the online mob.

 

Has Corbyn now outsourced party discipline to Twitter?

 

Democracy.

 

Who in their right mind pops into the newsagent to chat about the fiscal charter with their councillor (or is he the newsagent)?

[Alf Bentley]

As a brief counter-balance to all the Tory-boy stories about dissent in Labour ranks....

 

On lunchtime news: Tory MP Dan Poulter, a former junior doctor and health minister, has been openly expressing his support for doctors' opposition to his party's NHS reforms:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamonn-mccann/lets-all-join-northern-irelands-doctors-to-defend-the-health-service-31607597.html

 

"Just as significant has been the scathing intervention of Tory MP and former health department minister, Dr Dan Poulter, in an article in the Guardian last week. The Ipswich MP, who himself worked as a junior doctor for 10 years, declared: "It is impossible to reconcile these excessive working hours with safe patient care." The key to understanding Hunt's thinking, Poulter suggested, is that, in order to meet Government spending plans, "efficiency savings" of £22bn will have to be found in the health service during the lifetime of this parliament: "Most of the low-hanging fruit was picked between 2010 and 2015. So, reforming national contracts for doctors is perhaps one crude lever available to a secretary of state."

I presume this means that the Tories are in complete disarray, a public laughing stock presided over by a weak leader who cannot command discipline or loyalty among his troops, but who is simultaneously a grievous danger to the survival of the nation as he is intent on destroying the NHS? That's roughly the judgment that the Tory boys would pass on a Labour leader under such circumstances.... 

[Guest MattP]

Democracy.

 

Who in their right mind pops into the newsagent to chat about the fiscal charter with their councillor (or is he the newsagent)?

 

I was getting a newspaper, he was getting something and we had a chat.

 

They do this in France I presume?

 

As a brief counter-balance to all the Tory-boy stories about dissent in Labour ranks....

 

On lunchtime news: Tory MP Dan Poulter, a former junior doctor and health minister, has been openly expressing his support for doctors' opposition to his party's NHS reforms:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamonn-mccann/lets-all-join-northern-irelands-doctors-to-defend-the-health-service-31607597.html

 

"Just as significant has been the scathing intervention of Tory MP and former health department minister, Dr Dan Poulter, in an article in the Guardian last week. The Ipswich MP, who himself worked as a junior doctor for 10 years, declared: "It is impossible to reconcile these excessive working hours with safe patient care." The key to understanding Hunt's thinking, Poulter suggested, is that, in order to meet Government spending plans, "efficiency savings" of £22bn will have to be found in the health service during the lifetime of this parliament: "Most of the low-hanging fruit was picked between 2010 and 2015. So, reforming national contracts for doctors is perhaps one crude lever available to a secretary of state."

I presume this means that the Tories are in complete disarray, a public laughing stock presided over by a weak leader who cannot command discipline or loyalty among his troops, but who is simultaneously a grievous danger to the survival of the nation as he is intent on destroying the NHS? That's roughly the judgment that the Tory boys would pass on a Labour leader under such circumstances.... 

 

Come on mate you are far better than this, it's a ridiculous to compare a column from the Guardian written by a backbencher attacking the Health Secretary to what Comrade Corbyn has gone through over the last few weeks, It's a story of course, but it's not in the same county let only same ballpark.

 

If anyone wants to see Stewart Hosie of the SNP ripped apart give the Daily Politics a watch today, brillo at his best, tore him to bits on the oil price predictions and then on the parties record in the NHS, the SNP level of investment into the health service is something like half in percentage terms of the increase we have put in in England since 2008.

 

If some competent politicians north of border could get it together I get the feeling the SNP could be seriously exposed, they even underspent last year, far better not to spend and blame the Tories for austerity.

[Guest]

I was getting a newspaper, he was getting something and we had a chat.

 

They do this in France I presume?

 

Nah,

 

We don't buy newspapers we sit in cafés and read a copy. Sometimes we chat there too. 

[Guest MattP]

One of my guilty pleasures in France was to sit in a PMU for hours on end, wonderful to have bar and bookies in the same place.

Gamblers are exactly the same wherever you go, great people.

[Alf Bentley]

Come on mate you are far better than this, it's a ridiculous to compare a column from the Guardian written by a backbencher attacking the Health Secretary to what Comrade Corbyn has gone through over the last few weeks, It's a story of course, but it's not in the same county let only same ballpark.

 

 

 

He's a backbencher who was a Tory health minister and was a hospital doctor for 10 years, so it's certainly a story. According to the lunchtime news, he has even sent a message of support (tweet?) for a doctors' demo against Tory policy this weekend.

 

I'm not pretending that there's a precise equivalence between this and the state of flux in the Labour Party after Corbyn's election. Labour clearly have a major disparity between the politics of their new leadership/membership/support base, on the one hand, and that of their parliamentary party on the other.....they're obviously going to have to resolve that somehow over the coming months, whether through compromise, purges, leadership changes.... C'est la vie, and it won't be boring!

 

It's still interesting that, just a few months after the election of a government with a tiny majority, one of the Tories best qualified to talk about health policy (ex-doctor/ex-health minister) is openly slating that government's health policy and expressing support for demonstrations against his party's policy! 

[Guest MattP]

He's a backbencher who was a Tory health minister and was a hospital doctor for 10 years, so it's certainly a story. According to the lunchtime news, he has even sent a message of support (tweet?) for a doctors' demo against Tory policy this weekend.

 

I'm not pretending that there's a precise equivalence between this and the state of flux in the Labour Party after Corbyn's election. Labour clearly have a major disparity between the politics of their new leadership/membership/support base, on the one hand, and that of their parliamentary party on the other.....they're obviously going to have to resolve that somehow over the coming months, whether through compromise, purges, leadership changes.... C'est la vie, and it won't be boring!

 

It's still interesting that, just a few months after the election of a government with a tiny majority, one of the Tories best qualified to talk about health policy (ex-doctor/ex-health minister) is openly slating that government's health policy and expressing support for demonstrations against his party's policy! 

 

And it's right they do, personally I think the Tories have to think about a few things at the minute, tax credits being one, hitting the working low paid with aspiration just isn't a "Conservative" thing to do, I don't think they realise the strength of feeling about this, you can cut welfare for dole dossers etc and it will be popular among the wider public but this sort of stuff isn't. If he serious about running a surplus by 2019 then it shouldn't be too hard to find cuts elsewhere than ones that will look dreadful in the public eye.

 

If the Tories don't do anything stupid they'll win in 2020, the only thing I can think of is they are trying to slip this in now so he can turn into Father Christmas again in 2018-19.

[Guest]

One of my guilty pleasures in France was to sit in a PMU for hours on end, wonderful to have bar and bookies in the same place.

Gamblers are exactly the same wherever you go, great people.

 

It's a strange setup isn't it.

 

There is the possibility to lose your cash every few minutes - not just the horses and sports but now they have a lottery every few mins in a PMU.

[Guest MattP]

It's a strange setup isn't it.

 

There is the possibility to lose your cash every few minutes - not just the horses and sports but now they have a lottery every few mins in a PMU.

 

Incredible places though, aside from a dive pub I think a bookies is the first place I want to visit when I get to a new country if you want to meet some real people.

 

Although the best bookies I ever found was in a small street near Colombo, asked a barman at a random little tuck shop if he knew a place we could put bets on and he walked us out to his tuk tuk and drove us to a building site, walking up stairs through all the scaffolding (naturally assuming we are going to be robbed given we've just openly admitted to him we want to hand over cash to a bookmaker) of a tower block and the one shady room with a door open is a bookies, it was a staggering sight, they even had British racing on the television and the old Ceefex teletext betting cards with odds that we use over here in the 90's. Again the gamblers were exactly the same as they were in Britain or France, all running round hopelessly, wearing baseball caps and shoes they have worn for years.

 

We managed to get the cricket bet we wanted on and even got a yankee on at Stratford which we said we'd try and find out the result the next day without resorting to the internet (we didn't after going through every newspaper on offer and it lost), I think it was around 50 pound double in Sri Lanka and as soon as we had placed it the whole shop was begging for money from us both, trying to give us pens and write our bets down, offering us anything we wanted, think we gave about £20 away in rupees and I've never seen people so grateful, we eventually started writing out small bets (although large by their standards) for the later races that day and just kept giving them to the punters in the shops to keep, hope a few of them won.

 

I've never actually looked up if it was ever legal there, I will do when I get home. They've probably even got those ghastly casino betting machines as well now.

[Wymsey]

 

We need a 'MattP thread' so we can keep up with his interesting personal stories. 

[Guest MattP]

 

We need a 'MattP thread' so we can keep up with his interesting personal stories. 

 

All my stories are done now, a good night for me these days is Only Connect or watching a BBC3 documentary and listening to Radio 4 before I go to bed.

[RedSoxUK]

Did anyone watch Question Time?

[Dr The Singh]

All my stories are done now, a good night for me these days is Only Connect or watching a BBC3 documentary and listening to Radio 4 before I go to bed.

Tell them stories between me you ken and whitedee, there the best stories

[Alf Bentley]

And it's right they do, personally I think the Tories have to think about a few things at the minute, tax credits being one, hitting the working low paid with aspiration just isn't a "Conservative" thing to do, I don't think they realise the strength of feeling about this, you can cut welfare for dole dossers etc and it will be popular among the wider public but this sort of stuff isn't. If he serious about running a surplus by 2019 then it shouldn't be too hard to find cuts elsewhere than ones that will look dreadful in the public eye.

 

If the Tories don't do anything stupid they'll win in 2020, the only thing I can think of is they are trying to slip this in now so he can turn into Father Christmas again in 2018-19.

 

 

Tend to agree with both bits of your analysis: (1) the Tories are taking a political risk hammering the working poor (in the short-term) by cutting working/child tax credits ahead of increases in minimum wage; but (2) Osborne thinks he can get away with it by hitting people now and playing Santa a couple of years down the line; whatever else he is, he isn't stupid and he'll know the short-term effects...presumably he's gambling on people having short memories. Probably a good if cynical political gamble, I reckon. By 1983, voters had forgiven Thatcher for mass unemployment, and by 1992 they had forgiven the Tories for the poll tax, though they hadn't forgotten about Lamont's ERM debacle by 1997. But being perceived, rightly or wrongly, as economically incompetent as the Tories were in 1997 and Labour were in 2010, is different from cutting incomes and then maybe increasing them again just before the election. Particularly if they can discredit the opposition in the meantime. 

 

Even the Mail is being critical of the policy, though, after a confrontation on Question Time last night (didn't see it myself):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275451/Shame-Tearful-mother-blasts-speechless-Tory-minister-Question-Time-tax-credits-cut.html

 

Mind you, what sort of business is the woman running, if she makes zero profit and relies entirely on tax credits, child benefit and maintenance payments? I know that viable businesses can lose money initially due to set-up costs, can have a bad year or can make a loss one year due to investment/expansion. I also appreciate that she probably can't work full-time if she's a single parent with 4 kids. Even so, running a nail salon from home would hardly have high overheads or require massive investment, surely?

 

Maybe this confirms the low quality / non-viability of many of the businesses created in the recent self-employment boom (average income was £16k, I think?). Of course, the low-paid self-employed are unlikely to benefit from the increased minimum wage; they'll just get the cuts in tax credits, so will do a lot worse than those in low-paid PAYE employment, who'll get a pay rise, at least. 

[sphericalfox]

Tend to agree with both bits of your analysis: (1) the Tories are taking a political risk hammering the working poor (in the short-term) by cutting working/child tax credits ahead of increases in minimum wage; but (2) Osborne thinks he can get away with it by hitting people now and playing Santa a couple of years down the line; whatever else he is, he isn't stupid and he'll know the short-term effects...presumably he's gambling on people having short memories. Probably a good if cynical political gamble, I reckon. By 1983, voters had forgiven Thatcher for mass unemployment, and by 1992 they had forgiven the Tories for the poll tax, though they hadn't forgotten about Lamont's ERM debacle by 1997. But being perceived, rightly or wrongly, as economically incompetent as the Tories were in 1997 and Labour were in 2010, is different from cutting incomes and then maybe increasing them again just before the election. Particularly if they can discredit the opposition in the meantime. 

 

Even the Mail is being critical of the policy, though, after a confrontation on Question Time last night (didn't see it myself):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275451/Shame-Tearful-mother-blasts-speechless-Tory-minister-Question-Time-tax-credits-cut.html

 

Mind you, what sort of business is the woman running, if she makes zero profit and relies entirely on tax credits, child benefit and maintenance payments? I know that viable businesses can lose money initially due to set-up costs, can have a bad year or can make a loss one year due to investment/expansion. I also appreciate that she probably can't work full-time if she's a single parent with 4 kids. Even so, running a nail salon from home would hardly have high overheads or require massive investment, surely?

 

Maybe this confirms the low quality / non-viability of many of the businesses created in the recent self-employment boom (average income was £16k, I think?). Of course, the low-paid self-employed are unlikely to benefit from the increased minimum wage; they'll just get the cuts in tax credits, so will do a lot worse than those in low-paid PAYE employment, who'll get a pay rise, at least. 

 

I imagine her clientele can't afford to have their nails done without tax credits? 

[Dr The Singh]

I imagine her clientele can't afford to have their nails done without tax credits?

Seeing that face, I wouldn't have my sack shaved, let alone my nails

[Rincewind]

Tell them stories between me you ken and whitedee, there the best stories

I cannot beat the story of Matt's revelation that he met a Councillor  in a news agent. I would not recognize any Councillor tbh. He was lucky to meet someone that he agreed with.and happy to have a go at the opposition.Similar to this thread.

I am done with politics;

[Dr The Singh]

What I want to know, where is Corbyn, where are the Corbynites. Why isn't CORBYN asking the government to do something that's happening all the time in an ex british colony. The guy is asking for Britian to intervene in a case where people have been on trial and judged, where this case, people who pose no threat are just being shot and killed. Like every other politician, Crobyn is a fake and does what is in his interests

https://www.change.org/p/bbc-bbc-report-on-indian-govt-opening-fire-on-peaceful-sikh-rally-after-media-blackout-order?recruiter=404428904#petition-letter

Still waiting Corbynites, where is your self righteous shit now?????

[Rincewind]

More job losses in the steel industry.

[MooseBreath]

More job losses in the steel industry.

Who's to blame for that do you think?

[Mike Oxlong]

Was having a conversation in the newsagents with my local councillor this morning and we were having a chat about the fiscal charter, why did the Labour whips office let out the names of those who had abstained? This isn't normal practice at all and left them open to all sorts of unpleasentness from the online mob.

Has Corbyn now outsourced party discipline to Twitter?

I went to the newsagents too this morning

Bought a newspaper