leicsmac Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: You're assuming conservative minded judges can't be fair and that every republican is a fan of Trump? If both houses are republican it's because that's what Americans voted for, that's their right. If they had been happy with the previous administration it wouldn't have happened. A well mobilized minority of Americans got the Repubs into both houses, but I see your point. TBH it's the legislature itself that scares me more than Trump. It's figures amongst them that are pushing for the extreme stuff. Given how partisan things are over here, why wouldn't they get the necessary support for it? In any case, my point is that those checks and balances are looking mighty thin right now. What those in power choose to do with that is of course open to question, but they have the power to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 42 minutes ago, Webbo said: I have no idea what EPA is so I'm struggling to have an opinion. That doesn't seem to have stopped you protesting against people's problems with gay conversion therapy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 49 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I dislike fundies of all religions I can't help thinking that the parameters for your bigotry and for the writing off countless millions of people around the world is fairly arbitrary. I mean how do you decide who qualifies as a fundamentalist anyway? I can't fault your consistency though. The tolerance myth makes me chuckle. 'We believe in equality and tolerance for all... as long as they agree with me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Carl the Llama said: That doesn't seem to have stopped you protesting against people's problems with gay conversion therapy But they weren't protesting about it 4 years ago when the situation was exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Webbo said: But they weren't protesting about it 4 years ago when the situation was exactly the same. It wasn't the same though was it? 4 years ago a fundamentalist Christian with strong support for the 'therapy' hadn't just been signed into the White House, indeed as you've already been told the previous incumbent tried to outlaw the practice but got blocked by the Republican majority congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: It wasn't the same though was it? 4 years ago a fundamentalist Christian with strong support for the 'therapy' hadn't just been signed into the White House, indeed as you've already been told the previous incumbent tried to outlaw the practice but got blocked by the Republican majority congress. So things will be exactly the same as before, there's no indication that the situation will change? Was this even an issue during the campaigns? Did Clinton pledge to ban it? It's patently obvious that people are just looking for something to be offended about because they don't like losing . Just be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Webbo said: So things will be exactly the same as before, there's no indication that the situation will change? Was this even an issue during the campaigns? Did Clinton pledge to ban it? It's patently obvious that people are just looking for something to be offended about because they don't like losing . Just be honest. Maybe you haven't seen it but pray the gay away camps have been a contentious topic in the States for the past decade at least. It may not have been an election hot topic but it did get fairly regular mentions once Pence got confirmed as candidate and it makes sense for those concerns to be reignited now by the very possible incoming reinforcement of what are essentially child abuse centres (not hyperbole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Carl the Llama said: Maybe you haven't seen it but pray the gay away camps have been a contentious topic in the States for the past decade at least. It may not have been an election hot topic but it did get fairly regular mentions once Pence got confirmed as candidate and it makes sense for those concerns to be reignited now by the very possible incoming reinforcement of what are essentially child abuse centres (not hyperbole). If it hadn't been that it would have been something else. It obviously wasn't a major issue for the American electorate. Trump won the election, it least wait until he does something before you complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 21 minutes ago, GazzinderFox said: I can't help thinking that the parameters for your bigotry and for the writing off countless millions of people around the world is fairly arbitrary. I mean how do you decide who qualifies as a fundamentalist anyway? I can't fault your consistency though. The tolerance myth makes me chuckle. 'We believe in equality and tolerance for all... as long as they agree with me!" Looking to pass or maintain legislation in the name of a religion or the moral code given by that religion that prevents other people from having equal rights or doing nonharmful actions amongst themselves is a pretty decent guideline to outlining such an individual, I think. The Wahabists have got that going on big-time in Saudi, for instance - no one would have much trouble calling them fundies. Countless billions of people around the world believe in some idea of a Supreme Being. That's fair enough - I'm agnostic myself. Countless millions of people use that belief to weave a power structure that inhibits the fundamental freedoms of those who don't believe in the same deity as they. That is NOT fair enough, and should be challenged at every turn - it's simply egoistic, dominance-seeking power-mongering. It doesn't matter if it's in the name of a deity, or in the name of a man or State who happens to think that they are one (Stalin and Mao, anyone?) 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: If it hadn't been that it would have been something else. It obviously wasn't a major issue for the American electorate. Trump won the election, it least wait until he does something before you complain about it. Why wait for a bad thing to happen retroactively when there's a possibility it can be prevented proactively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, leicsmac said: Why wait for a bad thing to happen retroactively when there's a possibility it can be prevented proactively? Because it's not going to happen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 16 minutes ago, Webbo said: If it hadn't been that it would have been something else. It obviously wasn't a major issue for the American electorate. Trump won the election, it least wait until he does something before you complain about it. Like pussy grabbing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Emilio Lestavez said: Like pussy grabbing? People made their protests about that. I didn't defend it at the time. The electorate have spoken and they've decided it wasn't enough to change their vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: Because it's not going to happen anyway. I guess we'll find out. I'm sure it won't be made compulsory, but stand by for the whole raft of "states rights" legislation on the way which would encourage such and other practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: I guess we'll find out. I'm sure it won't be made compulsory, but stand by for the whole raft of "states rights" legislation on the way which would encourage such and other practices. That's the American way and who are we to lecture them? All the state legislatures are elected too. It's democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Oh, and in relation to the post a bit above: That a considerable amount of the US populace believe in Young-Earth Creationism (and leading from it the idea that the world is ours) and that these numbers can be enough to shape government policy (in the form of believing we can do as we wish to the planet with zero consequence) is potentially dangerous for every single human being on the surface of the Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedX Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Webbo said: People made their protests about that. I didn't defend it at the time. The electorate have spoken and they've decided it wasn't enough to change their vote. To be fair Webbo, Trump could have taken a lump hammer and marmalised a bag of puppies during the last live TV debate and it wouldn't have deterred his supporters or swayed them to the Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Oh, and in relation to the post a bit above: That a considerable amount of the US populace believe in Young-Earth Creationism (and leading from it the idea that the world is ours) and that these numbers can be enough to shape government policy (in the form of believing we can do as we wish to the planet with zero consequence) is potentially dangerous for every single human being on the surface of the Earth. Misguided maybe but in what way is it dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: That's the American way and who are we to lecture them? All the state legislatures are elected too. It's democracy. The freedom to oppress others if you wish, then? Well, I guess that goes hand in hand with human nature. But pardon me for being a little bit pissed off at such individuals if/when the consequences of such policies hurt us all. Of course, there would be a certain scahdenfruede in witnessing their expressions when they realise that not their deity nor their bank balances (whichever they think is important) can save them from what they've wrought. 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Misguided maybe but in what way is it dangerous? Because it assumes that we can consume and use resources in our own way indefinitely with zero consequences for the environment around us, because it was gifted to us by that benevolent deity and it's ours. At some point there is going to be consequences. Assuming the planet doesn't change (by virtue of being 6000 years old) is a most dangerous kind of naivety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 3 minutes ago, leicsmac said: The freedom to oppress others if you wish, then? Well, I guess that goes hand in hand with human nature. But pardon me for being a little bit pissed off at such individuals if/when the consequences of such policies hurt us all. Of course, there would be a certain scahdenfruede in witnessing their expressions when they realise that not their deity nor their bank balances (whichever they think is important) can save them from what they've wrought. You're trying to oppress their religious freedom. Quote Because it assumes that we can consume and use resources in our own way indefinitely with zero consequences for the environment around us, because it was gifted to us by that benevolent deity and it's ours. At some point there is going to be consequences. Assuming the planet doesn't change (by virtue of being 6000 years old) is a most dangerous kind of naivety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barky Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 I had google "pray the gay away" camps because I was sure they couldn't really exist. Camps where gay people are sent to pray to god to rid them of homosexuality?? ****in America man they are properly nutty aren't they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 Just now, Webbo said: You're trying to oppress their religious freedom. Right. The freedom to walk us all off a cliff because the next life is better. They do have the right to that. And yes, there are people who believe exactly as was said above regarding divine right to a unchanging Earth giving us carte blanche (except when the man upstairs decides to intervene). Voters and policymakers both. Just seems like a real abdication of responsibility to me, both as an individual and a species. Why do you think the EPA is getting gutted? Though $$$ (which some of them tie in with the religious stuff) is to do with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: You're trying to oppress their religious freedom. Religious freedom is the freedom to hold your own religious beliefs, it is not the freedom to persecute others based on your beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Right. The freedom to walk us all off a cliff because the next life is better. They do have the right to that. And yes, there are people who believe exactly as was said above regarding divine right to a unchanging Earth giving us carte blanche (except when the man upstairs decides to intervene). Voters and policymakers both. Just seems like a real abdication of responsibility to me, both as an individual and a species. Why do you think the EPA is getting gutted? Though $$$ (which some of them tie in with the religious stuff) is to do with that too. Stop being melodramatic, who's being walked off a cliff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 1 minute ago, The Doctor said: Religious freedom is the freedom to hold your own religious beliefs, it is not the freedom to persecute others based on your beliefs. Persecuting? Do you honestly believe that? Lighten up,try and be a bit more liberal, live and let live. Stop pretending that anyone who disagrees with you is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barky Posted 22 January 2017 Share Posted 22 January 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Persecuting? Do you honestly believe that? Lighten up,try and be a bit more liberal, live and let live. Stop pretending that anyone who disagrees with you is evil. Stop telling people how to think or I'll be voting for Donald Duck in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.