President Trump & the USA

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, MattP said:

Obama didn't so I doubt they were bothered too much.

I must have missed the part where Adelson gave Obama 30 mill then.

[Guest MattP]

 

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I must have missed the part where Adelson gave Obama 30 mill then.

Wasn't talking about anyone individual. 

 

Barack was quite prepares to throw all the pro-Israel lines out and also recognise Jerusalem - then he did nothing.

 

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-how-barack-obama-fooled-the-jews-and-betrayed-them-once-he-had-their-money

[Guest MattP]

16 minutes ago, Buce said:

The only 'evidence' to the contrary is coming from the Israelis.

 

The UN human rights office was heavily critical of Israel's use of force.

"The mere fact of approaching a fence is not a lethal, life-threatening act, so that does not warrant being shot," spokesman Rupert Colville told reporters in Geneva.

"How much threat can a double amputee be making from the other side of a large fortified fence?" he asked - referring to a widely shared report that a wheelchair user was killed during the violence.

 

The entire world is condemning the Israeli actions, predictably with the exception of the Americans. And you.

The only evidence saying your side comes from Hamas, an organisation committed to the destruction of the Israeli state. 

 

Most of the World is condemning both sides actually, the only ones siding with Hamas, criticising Israel and trying to put out there propaganda as fact are a few rogue Islamic states. And You. 

 

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

 

15 minutes ago, Buce said:

You have called for it in NK, more than once, claiming it was 'our duty'.

I've said we have a moral duty to free the people of North Korea (and we all do, the World as a whole) , that can happen in many different ways.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Wasn't talking about anyone individual. 

 

Barack was quite prepares to throw all the pro-Israel lines out and also recognise Jerusalem - then he did nothing.

 

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-how-barack-obama-fooled-the-jews-and-betrayed-them-once-he-had-their-money

I'd agree that once you take money off a donor you've pretty much got to keep your end of the bargain up but for me that and this just shows how the money in the US political system makes it stink to high heaven and subverts the democratic process.

[Buce]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

The only evidence saying your side comes from Hamas, an organisation committed to the destruction of the Israeli state. 

 

Most of the World is condemning both sides actually, the only ones siding with Hamas, criticising Israel and trying to put out there propaganda as fact are a few rogue Islamic states. And You.

 

 

Rogue Islamic states? Let's see...

 

'Senior UN officials condemned the recent killings as an “outrageous human rights violation” and said it appeared that anyone approaching the Gaza border fence was liable to be killed by Israeli soldiers'

 

'The UK prime minister, Theresa May, was among those who spoke out strongly on Tuesday. A spokesman said she was “deeply troubled” by Israel’s use of live fire'

 

'Ireland summoned Israel’s ambassador to protest against the fatalities'

 

' Russia and China also expressed their concern over the killings. '

 

' The French president, Emmanuel Macron, said he condemned “the violence of the Israeli armed forces against protesters” in a telephone call withAbbas and Jordan’s King Abdullah II. '

 

' Summing up the concern of many, Rupert Colville, a spokesman for the UN high commissioner for human rights, said in Geneva: “The mere fact of approaching a fence is not a lethal, life-threatening act, so that does not warrant being shot. It seems that anyone is liable to be shot dead.” He stressed that international laws that applied to Israel made clear that “lethal force may only be used as a measure of last, not first, resort.” '

 

' The UK, Germany, and France expressed concern about the lethal response by Israeli forces '

 

' Russia said it was watching closely, adding that the Palestinian death toll could not "but provoke the deepest concern" '

 

' Turkey said the US shared responsibility with Israel for a "vile massacre" and recalled its ambassadors from both countries '

 

' South Africa also recalled its ambassador from Israel'

 

 

 

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Something I have made clear many times.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Rogue Islamic states? Let's see...

 

'Senior UN officials condemned the recent killings as an “outrageous human rights violation” and said it appeared that anyone approaching the Gaza border fence was liable to be killed by Israeli soldiers'

 

'The UK prime minister, Theresa May, was among those who spoke out strongly on Tuesday. A spokesman said she was “deeply troubled” by Israel’s use of live fire'

 

'Ireland summoned Israel’s ambassador to protest against the fatalities'

 

' Russia and China also expressed their concern over the killings. '

 

' The French president, Emmanuel Macron, said he condemned “the violence of the Israeli armed forces against protesters” in a telephone call withAbbas and Jordan’s King Abdullah II. '

 

' Summing up the concern of many, Rupert Colville, a spokesman for the UN high commissioner for human rights, said in Geneva: “The mere fact of approaching a fence is not a lethal, life-threatening act, so that does not warrant being shot. It seems that anyone is liable to be shot dead.” He stressed that international laws that applied to Israel made clear that “lethal force may only be used as a measure of last, not first, resort.” '

 

' The UK, Germany, and France expressed concern about the lethal response by Israeli forces '

 

' Russia said it was watching closely, adding that the Palestinian death toll could not "but provoke the deepest concern" '

 

' Turkey said the US shared responsibility with Israel for a "vile massacre" and recalled its ambassadors from both countries '

 

' South Africa also recalled its ambassador from Israel'

I said most countries have apportioned blame on both sides, Israeli forces and Hamas. 

 

You've just replied with all the quotes of them just criticising one side - which I haven't denied in the first place. 

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

I said most countries have apportioned blame on both sides, Israeli forces and Hamas. 

 

You've just replied with all the quotes of them just criticising one side - which I haven't denied in the first place. 

 

Those were the only quotes.

 

The US is the only nation apportioning blame to both sides - everyone else is saying the Israeli response is not proportionate to what was 'a riot'.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

You have called for it in NK, more than once, claiming it was 'our duty'.

He's on his own planet isn't he?

 

[Buce]

31 minutes ago, toddybad said:

He's on his own planet isn't he?

 

 

Indeed.

 

He picks a side then defends it to the death against all evidence and logic. Quite disturbing really.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Indeed.

 

He picks a side then defends it to the death against all evidence and logic. Quite disturbing really.

Israel dropped leaflets saying don't approach the fence.

People went near the fence - on their own side of the fence - and were shot indiscriminately.

It's an abomination that this country should be calling out as strongly as those we see elsewhere.

There should be no place for the sort of appeasement that Matt is serving up.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

He's on his own planet isn't he?

 

48 minutes ago, Buce said:

Indeed.

 

He picks a side then defends it to the death against all evidence and logic. Quite disturbing really.

Come on then, show me the quote where I have demanded regime change in North Korea?

[Buce]

31 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Come on then, show me the quote where I have demanded regime change in North Korea?

 

On 04/09/2017 at 16:07, MattP said:

I presume the end game for them is developing nuclear capability that could destroy numerous US cities and therefore keeping them out of the next Korean war, reunification is the objective. 

 

Kim already is threatening the World, from South Korea to Guam to the USA - we have no idea how genuine he is, but he must be feeling extremely powerful at the minute, he keeps doing things despite being threatened and nothing happens. He must be laughing at the World running around after him.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the Chinese have the most to lose, providing it wasn't a reunification of the country I doubt they'd get involved even if the World attempted a regime change and as I've said I before, I do believe the World has a moral obligation to free those people from that glorified prison in the same way we did after the first cold war behind the Soviet Union.

 

You didn't answer my question though, what do you see as this situation being resolved? If North Korea has developed nuclear weapons eight times bigger than Hiroshima you could argue they've won short term rather than anything being resolved, then they can push the boundaries a bit further next time.

5

 

 

On 20/09/2017 at 12:34, MattP said:

It means we never have a realistic chance of removing the regime, which the World quite frankly has an obligation to do.

 

In response to Toddy arguing against us being involved in regime change:

 

On 21/09/2017 at 12:19, MattP said:

What the **** has it got to do with us? We are a permanent member of the UN security council, are you suggesting we totally shirk our responsibility to the World?

 

 

On 15/02/2018 at 12:56, MattP said:

Not when I believe the World has a moral obligation to free those people from what they have to live under. Just because I'm OK doesn't mean I'm coll with people across the World being beaten, tortured, starved and killed - I can't turn a blind eye to it.

 

That's the difference between right and left there.

1

1

 

In response to Mac saying war wasn't the answer:

 

On 15/02/2018 at 14:39, MattP said:

Not at all, refusing trade would harm the people more. Where have you taken my words as refusing to trade?

 

Same question, where have you assumed I wouldn't trade with them?

 

I don't think the other situations are comparable to this, Saudi and Israel are involved in war or a proxy war, China has opened up to World, we are talking about a country here that doesn't give it's citizens a passport.

 

I didn't say it was always necessary, it may well be though.

 

I'm sure the North Koreans in the gulags will be delighted you are so morally opposed to conflict you are prepared to do nothing, a real help to them.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Wonderful. So we've cleared it up that I have never demanded regime change. Thanks. 

 

It may be necessary one day, I still stand by that, but let's hope the regime comes to it's senses before we reach the end point where that would be so.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Wonderful. So we've cleared it up that I have never demanded regime change. Thanks. 

 

It may be necessary one day, I still stand by that, but let's hope the regime comes to it's senses before we reach the end point where that would be so.

 

 

Priceless!

[leicsmac]

Ummm...Matt, I'm terribly sorry mate, but could you then please elaborate on the difference in meaning between stating the world had a moral obligation to remove that regime and actually demanding that the regime be removed, as there seems to be (in your opinion) a distinction?

 

Some clarity is needed here, I think.

[Finnegan]

15 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Come on then, show me the quote where I have demanded regime change in North Korea?

 

[Guest MattP]

16 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Ummm...Matt, I'm terribly sorry mate, but could you then please elaborate on the difference in meaning between stating the world had a moral obligation to remove that regime and actually demanding that the regime be removed, as there seems to be (in your opinion) a distinction?

 

Some clarity is needed here, I think.

The World has an obligation to remove the people from the prison of the regime, this can be done without removing the regime, we didn't really do that when the Soviet Union came down, they realised that the people needed to be freed and they were freed with diplomacy rather than invasion.

 

The regime can either free the people, or the World can remove the regime by force, hopefully it will be the former rather the bloodshed we'll get from the latter.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, MattP said:

Wonderful. So we've cleared it up that I have never demanded regime change. Thanks. 

 

It may be necessary one day, I still stand by that, but let's hope the regime comes to it's senses before we reach the end point where that would be so.

Honestly. You make yourself look more and more stupid every time you post.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Honestly. You make yourself look more and more stupid every time you post.

Coming from the man who labelled Denis McShane a City expert, said governments could print whatever money they want and who thinks John McDonnell's tax plans will raise money for the treasury that's some gall you've got, will give you that.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Coming from the man who labelled Denis McShane a City expert, said governments could print whatever money they want and who thinks John McDonnell's tax plans will raise money for the treasury that's some gall you've got, will give you that.

Coming from a blinkered fool I won't worry too much about your opinion  

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, MattP said:

The World has an obligation to remove the people from the prison of the regime, this can be done without removing the regime, we didn't really do that when the Soviet Union came down, they realised that the people needed to be freed and they were freed with diplomacy rather than invasion.

 

The regime can either free the people, or the World can remove the regime by force, hopefully it will be the former rather the bloodshed we'll get from the latter.

Thank you for the clarification - was needed in this case, I think.

 

Anyway, it looked like the first steps on the way to the former might have been possible until some tit inside the Pentagon decided that staging drills right now was somehow a reasonable idea.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Thank you for the clarification - was needed in this case, I think.

No problem. 

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll amuse myself with some pornographic cards. 

[Merging Cultures]

Financial disclosure is out. It includes the Cohen repayment. I'm not totally sure what that means yet, but it seems problematic given he said he didn't know anything about it.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

Financial disclosure is out. It includes the Cohen repayment. I'm not totally sure what that means yet, but it seems problematic given he said he didn't know anything about it.

Tbh I don't think they're going to find anything much. Just a gut feeling.