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Vacamion

President Trump & the USA

By Vacamion, in General Chat

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, MattP said:

Hamas official admits 50 of the protestors killed on Monday were members of it or Islamic Jihad.

 

https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/50-Hamas-members-reportedly-killed-during-Mondays-Gaza-protests-556627

 

"Unarmed Civilians":rolleyes:

 

" Bardaweil did not specify what role the people who he said were Hamas members had in the organization or whether any of them belonged to its armed wing, the Izzadin Kassam Brigades."

 

And the only mention of 'Islamic Jihad' is coming from the IDF.

 

 

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
Just now, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Are people really expecting Israel to just bend over and allow hoards of invaders to breach their borders and murder their civilians?

 

No.

 

They are expecting them to act proportionately and within the confines of international law.

Nuneatonfox in Manchester

Nuneatonfox in Manchester

Posted
Posted

Ok, so how do you lawfully stop endless onslaughts of molotov cocktails and planted explosives? 

 

Israel drop leaflets warning them before any retaliation strike. They also warned rioters to refrain from attempted to pass the border, yet they go there anyway and even bring children. I mean you couldn’t make this up! They literally live for a photo op, and idiots just lap it up.

 

 

 

 

Merging Cultures

Merging Cultures

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Ok, so how do you lawfully stop endless onslaughts of molotov cocktails and planted explosives? 

 

Israel drop leaflets warning them before any retaliation strike. They also warned rioters to refrain from attempted to pass the border, yet they go there anyway and even bring children. I mean you couldn’t make this up! They literally live for a photo op, and idiots just lap it up.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps start by stopping taking land from people and cutting off their livelihoods ?

Nuneatonfox in Manchester

Nuneatonfox in Manchester

Posted
Posted

Taking  land from people.. you have actual proof of that do you? (not a fictitious montage from Al jazeera)

Your ignorance is to be expected, you clearly have never been there.

They are provided with electricity clean water and all the means to maintain a stable economy, however they choose to leave structures half built and spend all there time and resources firing rockets EVERY SINGLE DAY. 

You know they have 5 star hotels in Gaza right?

Their government exists to kill Jews, their children are taught from a young age to kill as many Jews as possible. Do you not understand what Hamas stands for? They want as many Palestinians dead as possible, why else do they fire rockets from schools and hospitals?

The people of Palestine need to rise up and root out this terrorist organisation and live their bloody lives.

 

 

Saxondale

Saxondale

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Taking  land from people.. you have actual proof of that do you? (not a fictitious montage from Al jazeera)

Your ignorance is to be expected, you clearly have never been there.

They are provided with electricity clean water and all the means to maintain a stable economy, however they choose to leave structures half built and spend all there time and resources firing rockets EVERY SINGLE DAY. 

You know they have 5 star hotels in Gaza right?

Their government exists to kill Jews, their children are taught from a young age to kill as many Jews as possible. Do you not understand what Hamas stands for? They want as many Palestinians dead as possible, why else do they fire rockets from schools and hospitals?

The people of Palestine need to rise up and root out this terrorist organisation and live their bloody lives.

 

 

 

Merging Cultures

Merging Cultures

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Taking  land from people.. you have actual proof of that do you? (not a fictitious montage from Al jazeera)

Your ignorance is to be expected, you clearly have never been there.

They are provided with electricity clean water and all the means to maintain a stable economy, however they choose to leave structures half built and spend all there time and resources firing rockets EVERY SINGLE DAY. 

You know they have 5 star hotels in Gaza right?

Their government exists to kill Jews, their children are taught from a young age to kill as many Jews as possible. Do you not understand what Hamas stands for? They want as many Palestinians dead as possible, why else do they fire rockets from schools and hospitals?

The people of Palestine need to rise up and root out this terrorist organisation and live their bloody lives.

 

 

Dude, I live and work in developing countries. 5 star hotels mean nothing. 

 

I am not sure what sources you'd like, but The Economist is usually widely accepted. Have a read of the following articles from today's edition, if you don't have a subscription I can copy and send it, it is too long to paste, but I've included some quotes. 

 

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/05/17/israel-must-answer-for-the-deaths-in-gaza

Israel, Egypt and the PA cannot just lock away the Palestinians in Gaza in the hope that Hamas will be overthrown. Only when Gazans live more freely might they think of getting rid of their rulers. Much more can be done to ease Gazans’ plight without endangering Israel’s security. But no lasting solution is possible until the question of Palestine is solved, too. Mr Netanyahu has long resisted the idea of a Palestinian state—and has kept building settlements on occupied land.

 

It is hard to convince Israelis to change. As Israel marks its 70th birthday, the economy is booming. By “managing” the conflict, rather than trying to end it, Mr Netanyahu has kept Palestinian violence in check while giving nothing away. When violence flares Israel’s image suffers, but not much. The Trump administration supports it. And Arab states seeking an ally against a rising Iran have never had better relations with it.

 

Israel is wrong to stop seeking a deal. And Mr Trump is wrong to prejudge the status of Jerusalem. But Palestinians have made it easy for Israel to claim that there is “no partner for peace”, divided as they are between a tired nationalist Fatah that cannot deliver peace, and an Islamist Hamas that refuses to do so. Palestinians desperately need new leaders. Fatah must renew itself through long-overdue elections. And Hamas must realise that its rockets damage Palestinian dreams of statehood more than they hurt Israel.

 

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/17/deadly-protests-on-gazas-border-with-israel

Sewers and reapers

Neglect and the Israeli bombardment have shattered infrastructure. The territory cannot treat its sewage, so it stores the stuff in fetid open-air pools or dumps it straight into the Mediterranean. Sewage and seawater seep into Gaza’s depleted aquifer, rendering most water supplies unfit for human consumption, according to the UN. Electricity comes on for three hours a day, often at odd times. Gazans are used to waking in the middle of the night to wash their clothes and charge their mobile phones. Children study by candlelight.

 

Fault finding

Gazans, though, mostly blame other Palestinians for their daily misery. Six reconciliation deals between Hamas and Fatah have yielded little more than piles of worthless paper. In the past year Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, based in the West Bank, has imposed sanctions on the strip, halting shipments of medicine and cutting payments for Gaza’s electricity. Last October Hamas and Fatah signed yet another deal in Cairo, agreeing that the PA would take power in Gaza. Hamas was happy to cede control of the sewers and schools—to make someone else responsible for the awful conditions.

 

It refused to hand over control of the security forces, however, let alone relinquish its arsenal of rockets. When the agreement took effect, smartly uniformed PA soldiers took over the Hamas checkpoint at Erez. But the Hamas men just moved to a cluster of cramped trailers nearby. Foreign visitors must still obtain permits from Hamas and endure a barrage of bizarre questions from its secret police.

 

Israelis usually insist that the plight of Gaza is not their problem, as they ceased to occupy it in 2005. It is a nuisance but rarely intrudes on Israelis’ daily life. Yet this is false. Israel is still deeply involved in Gaza. Its army controls Gaza’s coast and air space. Israel decides how far its fishermen may sail offshore, and whether Gazans can use 3G services on their mobile phones. It oversees a population registry that tracks every child born in a Gazan hospital. The sewage that pours into the sea washes ashore on Israel’s beaches.

 

Over the years, Israeli officials have proposed ways to ease the suffering. Infrastructure projects are suggested, or schemes to let tens of thousands of day labourers cross into Israel. None gets serious consideration. Gazans have little support in parliament and even less in Binyamin Netanyahu’s right-wing government.

 

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/17/israel-at-70

20180519_FBC499_9.png

 

 

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Taking  land from people.. you have actual proof of that do you? (not a fictitious montage from Al jazeera)

Your ignorance is to be expected, you clearly have never been there.

They are provided with electricity clean water and all the means to maintain a stable economy, however they choose to leave structures half built and spend all there time and resources firing rockets EVERY SINGLE DAY. 

You know they have 5 star hotels in Gaza right?

Their government exists to kill Jews, their children are taught from a young age to kill as many Jews as possible. Do you not understand what Hamas stands for? They want as many Palestinians dead as possible, why else do they fire rockets from schools and hospitals?

The people of Palestine need to rise up and root out this terrorist organisation and live their bloody lives.

 

 

5

 

And you call MC ignorant.

 

Astonishing.

breadandcheese

breadandcheese

Posted
Posted
On 17/05/2018 at 08:13, MattP said:

Hamas official admits 50 of the protestors killed on Monday were members of it or Islamic Jihad.

 

https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/50-Hamas-members-reportedly-killed-during-Mondays-Gaza-protests-556627

 

"Unarmed Civilians":rolleyes:

That does put a new spin on it as it does show that Israeli forces were not shooting to kill indiscriminately.

 

I find it interesting that UNWRA are now starting to get some flak in all this and think it could be a positive development if they are disbanded or their aim is changed.

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

That does put a new spin on it as it does show that Israeli forces were not shooting to kill indiscriminately.

 

I find it interesting that UNWRA are now starting to get some flak in all this and think it could be a positive development if they are disbanded or their aim is changed.

 
1

 

What, the other 1,500 or so were just collateral were they?

 

Like the 14-year-old kid in a wheelchair?

breadandcheese

breadandcheese

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

What, the other 1,500 or so were just collateral were they?

 

Like the 14-year-old kid in a wheelchair?

If 50 of the 62 killed we're Hamas members, it doesn't imply that it's indiscriminate shooting to kill. That's a point that can't be disregarded, in the same way you raise the point about how a wheelchair bound person could constitute a threat that required being killed.

 

With regards the 1500 injured, please advise as to how Israel can police their border from an attempt to storm it by 50,000 people whose intentions are unknown. I don't mean that as a staunch defence of Israel, I genuinely want to know what the options are as I don't think there are any, other than tear gas first, warning shots second and then shooting to injure to incapacitate (not kill) in order to stop the border being breached. This would explain why the death to injury ratio is so low.

 

Rubber bullets have been suggested as a munition Israel should have used but these require getting close up to the protestors, which could easily result in Israeli soldiers being overrun. In this scenario, of soldiers being overrun, the loss of life amongst the Palestinian side would be massively higher.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to give a staunch defence, as I'm nothing more than an armchair commentator without the necessary tactical knowledge on policing crowds, securing borders or handling terrorism problems. So an inquiry would definitely be a good idea, as it would allow experts to give their opinion and hopefully shed more light beyond the obvious horror of sixty people being killed.

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted

Gina Haspel confirmed as CIA director with the support of six Dem senators, then.

 

Good to see healthy experience with tor- sorry, "enhanced interrogation techniques" is good for career progression.

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

America summarised in one tweet

 

 

Slippery slope fallacy it might be, be careful what you wish for when NHS "reform" is suggested.

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