Huge fire London building

[Guest]

Just now, The Floyd said:

They're angry because innocent people died, understandably, yet then attack an innocent old councillor. They say they're after action, Theresa May pledges £5mil to survivors, they riot anyway. 

There hasn't been a riot. There has been a demonstration. They don't want money, they want answers and justice. If you can't understand feelings running high after what happened this week then you aren't human. 

[Guest]

Mustafa Almansur, who organised the protest at Kensington and Chelsea town hall, believes a family friend and her children were killed in the blaze.

Rania Ibrahim, who is a friend of Almansur’s wife, messaged friends and livestreamed a video to Facebook from her 23rd-floor flat as the fire rose through the tower. When her battery ran out, the video cut, and she and her two children have not been heard from since.

Speaking as crowds remained gathered at the entrance of the building, Almansur said the protests would continue.

 

 The protest outside the town hall earlier this evening. Photograph: Adam Gray/Barcroft Images

The reason for the protest is that so far in the last three days the general public have done everything from raising money to actually going out there on the streets, helping people, finding the victims of the tragedy, going to the community centres, the churches and the mosques with donations and in cash.

“To this day the council has failed to do anything in public, they have not made a public statement or any public comment. The statement they made today was just a fluffy statement – open-ended promises with no concrete numbers of what they are going to be able to do for the people.

Almansur said protesters had been “unsatisfied” by the council’s responses to their questions, but insisted that they had not sought a confrontation with police.

The people didn’t storm the building, they walked into the building after I read out the statement, unhappy with what they heard. So they said let’s go into the building and get the senior executives to come down, but the police were inside the building already not allowing anybody to go up the stairs. The people stood there and they were speaking in the microphone making their demands be known.

 

19 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/622861/London-fire-violence-riots-on-streets-Grenfell-Tower-Kensington

 

Are these morons so blinded by their own self-importance that they fail to see the hypocrisy in their actions? 

Do you feel like a complete d1ck yet?

[The Floyd]

59 minutes ago, toddybad said:

There hasn't been a riot. There has been a demonstration. They don't want money, they want answers and justice. If you can't understand feelings running high after what happened this week then you aren't human. 

I suggest that you look up the definition of demonstration then compare it to the photos/footage included in the article I shared. 

 

An inquiry has been launched, people are well aware of this. This isn't an incident that can be resolved within days. 

Edited 16 June 2017 by The Floyd

[Wymsey]

Quite stunned in Theresa May offering very little lack of verbal sympathy, initially, to those involved.

Yes, she'd done the right thing in promising £5m to help those involved, but I just feel empathy had been lacking from her particularly in the interview shortly after in which she demanded a full investigation into the tragedy.

 

It slightly appears that the £5m etc she promised for this incident is one to help her to try and just 'do something for the sake of being under-pressure in being the PM and try to reduce it by stating publically the money will go a long way of helping these; and also somewhat appears to me therefore she's got "bigger" things on her mind such as Brexit etc and that this incident is just a 'minor' one.

Edited 16 June 2017 by Wymeswold fox

[DJ Barry Hammond]

3 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

I suggest that you look up the definition of demonstration then compare it to the photos/footage included in the article I shared. 

 

An enquiry has been launched, people are well aware of this. This isn't an incident that can be resolved within days. 

 

Yet you're ignoring that impact of mass grief here and the fact a lot of people have been left in desperate situations to largely fend for themselves. 

 

Put yourself in their position... wouldn't you be angry?

Edited 16 June 2017 by DJ Barry Hammond

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

I suggest that you look up the definition of demonstration then compare it to the photos/footage included in the article I shared. 

 

An enquiry has been launched, people are well aware of this. This isn't an incident that can be resolved within days. 

Theresa May's decision to carry out a public inquiry into the Grenfell tragedy ensures that the government has control over any uncomfortable revelations about the negligence and poor planning of the Grenfell estate by the Tory-run Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea.

By choosing a PUBLIC INQUIRY the government protects itself as well as those who should be held accountable. It also blocks any possibility of an INQUEST from taking place: the necessary process that would unearth the true causes of the fire for the public interest.

[The Floyd]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Mustafa Almansur, who organised the protest at Kensington and Chelsea town hall, believes a family friend and her children were killed in the blaze.

Rania Ibrahim, who is a friend of Almansur’s wife, messaged friends and livestreamed a video to Facebook from her 23rd-floor flat as the fire rose through the tower. When her battery ran out, the video cut, and she and her two children have not been heard from since.

Speaking as crowds remained gathered at the entrance of the building, Almansur said the protests would continue.

 

 The protest outside the town hall earlier this evening. Photograph: Adam Gray/Barcroft Images

The reason for the protest is that so far in the last three days the general public have done everything from raising money to actually going out there on the streets, helping people, finding the victims of the tragedy, going to the community centres, the churches and the mosques with donations and in cash.

“To this day the council has failed to do anything in public, they have not made a public statement or any public comment. The statement they made today was just a fluffy statement – open-ended promises with no concrete numbers of what they are going to be able to do for the people.

Almansur said protesters had been “unsatisfied” by the council’s responses to their questions, but insisted that they had not sought a confrontation with police.

The people didn’t storm the building, they walked into the building after I read out the statement, unhappy with what they heard. So they said let’s go into the building and get the senior executives to come down, but the police were inside the building already not allowing anybody to go up the stairs. The people stood there and they were speaking in the microphone making their demands be known.

 

Do you feel like a complete d1ck yet?

Haha. Do I feel like a complete dick yet? I'm not entirely sure what you think you've put forward to change my mind, but you haven't. I'm not saying that people should not have the right to demonstrate their feelings, but assaulting innocent councillors - as shown in the article I provided - is just moronic and not at all helpful.

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Mustafa Almansur, who organised the protest at Kensington and Chelsea town hall, believes a family friend and her children were killed in the blaze.

Rania Ibrahim, who is a friend of Almansur’s wife, messaged friends and livestreamed a video to Facebook from her 23rd-floor flat as the fire rose through the tower. When her battery ran out, the video cut, and she and her two children have not been heard from since.

Speaking as crowds remained gathered at the entrance of the building, Almansur said the protests would continue.

 

 The protest outside the town hall earlier this evening. Photograph: Adam Gray/Barcroft Images

The reason for the protest is that so far in the last three days the general public have done everything from raising money to actually going out there on the streets, helping people, finding the victims of the tragedy, going to the community centres, the churches and the mosques with donations and in cash.

“To this day the council has failed to do anything in public, they have not made a public statement or any public comment. The statement they made today was just a fluffy statement – open-ended promises with no concrete numbers of what they are going to be able to do for the people.

Almansur said protesters had been “unsatisfied” by the council’s responses to their questions, but insisted that they had not sought a confrontation with police.

The people didn’t storm the building, they walked into the building after I read out the statement, unhappy with what they heard. So they said let’s go into the building and get the senior executives to come down, but the police were inside the building already not allowing anybody to go up the stairs. The people stood there and they were speaking in the microphone making their demands be known.

 

Do you feel like a complete d1ck yet?

Why did some of the 'protesters' on the photo's I've seen, felt the need to cover their faces do you think? (inside, when it's 80 degrees heat today)

 

 

[The Floyd]

12 minutes ago, l444ry said:

You quote the Daily Star then call disenfranchised people who have lost friends, neighbours and family morons? Jeeez!

Normally I would agree but you can't really argue with the photography within the article. 

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Why did some of the 'protesters' on the photo's I've seen, felt the need to cover their faces do you think? (inside, when it's 80 degrees heat today)

 

 

Because we've reached a point where angry demonstration is somehow viewed as a riot. Why do you think the police chose not to kettle these supposed rioters and that we aren't hearing of mass arrests?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

Normally I would agree but you can't really argue with the photography within the article. 

 

 

You have to seperate the handful of idiots that attend any event from the hundreds that protested without looking for that bit more. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Theresa May's decision to carry out a public inquiry into the Grenfell tragedy ensures that the government has control over any uncomfortable revelations about the negligence and poor planning of the Grenfell estate by the Tory-run Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea.

By choosing a PUBLIC INQUIRY the government protects itself as well as those who should be held accountable. It also blocks any possibility of an INQUEST from taking place: the necessary process that would unearth the true causes of the fire for the public interest.

No response to this Floyd?

[The Floyd]

39 minutes ago, toddybad said:

No response to this Floyd?

I'll dismiss the irony of this comment whilst I answer. 

 

May has already gone on record and said that local people would be consulted and would be given free legal representation so their concerns could be aired, so for either of us to pretend we know how the inquiry will go would be wholly irresponsible and unsubstantiated. 

 

I'm a massive critic of Theresa May but pledging £5mil, ensuring that people who lost bank cards still have access to their bank accounts and offering involvement to locals with regards to an inquiry, is about all she can offer in the immediate short-term. 

Edited 16 June 2017 by The Floyd

[DJ Barry Hammond]

10 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

Haha. Do I feel like a complete dick yet? I'm not entirely sure what you think you've put forward to change my mind, but you haven't. I'm not saying that people should not have the right to demonstrate their feelings, but assaulting innocent councillors - as shown in the article I provided - is just moronic and not at all helpful.

 

To begin, I should make it clear I'm not condoning assaulting anyone... however, what I find interesting is it's this incident you decide to pick out from an article to comment on and don't consider the circumstances that have lead to this.

 

It is quite clear, not enough people from the council or from anywhere have gone out to the area to organise things - and so  should they be surprised this is the reaction?

 

There is a degree of cause and effect here that may make the label you use of 'morons' which we could consider is a reference to all that were there protesting and didn't assault anyone very unfair.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

2 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

I'll dismiss the irony of this comment whilst I answer. 

 

May has already gone on record and said that local people would be consulted and would be given free legal representation so their concerns could be aired, so for either of us to pretend we know how the enquiry will go would be wholly irresponsible and unsubstantiated. 

 

I'm a massive critic of Theresa May but pledging £5mil, ensuring that people who lost bank cards still have access to their bank accounts and offering involvement to locals with regards to an enquiry, is about all she can offer in the immediate short term. 

 

Just a shame she didn't tell them directly or had people in place to transfer this promised help before the weekend? 

[The Floyd]

2 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

To begin, I should make it clear I'm not condoning assaulting anyone... however, what I find interesting is it's this incident you decide to pick out from an article to comment on and don't consider the circumstances that have lead to this.

 

It is quite clear, not enough people from the council or from anywhere have gone out to the area to organise things - and so  should they be surprised this is the reaction?

 

There is a degree of cause and effect here that may make the label you use of 'morons' which we could consider is a reference to all that were there protesting and didn't assault anyone very unfair.

Perhaps I should clarify that my use of 'morons' was targeted at certain individuals/groups within the article - an article, which was very much portraying the violent element of the demonstration. 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

This Newsnight interview is uncomfortable to say the least.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 minute ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

This Newsnight interview is uncomfortable to say the least.

 

Its so annoying when someone can't admit a glaring mistake...

 

And the other awful thing, she may have pledged £5 million, but gave no idea of details of how people get hold of this and when it might be available? It was announced at about 4-5pm this afternoon, so I can bet it won't be available over the weekend.

 

its crap. It's a platitude. 

[Guesty]

Just now, Realist Guy In The Room said:

This Newsnight interview is uncomfortable to say the least.

I don't understand why she doesn't just come out and say: 'Yes it was probably a mistake. I should have come to see the people. I wrongly thought maybe people would be upset with my presence and it might have been taken the wrong way. I didn't want to cause a scene as the emergency services had enough to deal with. If that was wrong I apologise unreservedly and I care very much about this and the people affected'. Or something like that.

 

It's like she just can't admit to making a mistake even when it would be best for everyone. Irrespective of your views on her, it's a massive flaw in a leader.

 

It is interesting how different news channels present it though. BBC and SKY are hammering her for not going - and pretty much making it a story themselves. Whereas ITV mentioned she wanted to go to the hospital on the first day but they asked her to wait for a day. And when she did arrive in the community today there were people saying she shouldn't have come as it was going to make things worse.

 

[Guest Kopfkino]

36 minutes ago, toddybad said:

No response to this Floyd?

 

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/tower-fire-solicitor-urges-residents-to-demand-inquest-not-inquiry/5061588.article

 

Check out what Simon McKay says in the second half of this. Or is he wrong because he's not anti the government and peddling the cover up line?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/tower-fire-solicitor-urges-residents-to-demand-inquest-not-inquiry/5061588.article

 

Check out what Simon McKay says in the second half of this. Or is he wrong because he's not anti the government and peddling the cover up line?

There appears to be arguments on both sides here. As both parties are calling for an inquiry it isn't necessarily party political. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

There appears to be arguments on both sides here. As both parties are calling for an inquiry it isn't necessarily party political. 

 

You decided in your initial post that the inquiry is being done so the government protects itself and "has control over any uncomfortable revelations about the negligence and poor planning of the Grenfell estate by the Tory-run Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea."

[Guest]

Well given the perilous position of the current government that is a possibility with an inquiry is it not?

[Guest]

Apparently at least 20 other tower blocks in London have the same cladding

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/experts-urge-ban-on-use-of-combustible-materials-in-tower-blocks

[Guest Kopfkino]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Well given the perilous position of the current government that is a possibility with an inquiry is it not?

 

"I'm not saying public inquiries are not without difficulties but the idea they are an attempt to divert accountability is deeply flawed."