Huge fire London building

[DJ Barry Hammond]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's just weird. 

 

Angry woman wants answers. She's not sure what answers she wants or from whom, but she wants them.

 

 

Its not if you can just think a little.

 

Sometimes it's worth looking deeper than the words being said because often they can betray what's deep down... what that woman wants, all of these people want, is some sort of assistance towards something, anything. People that seem to be in charge, that seem to care, because their whole word hasn't been ripped apart.

 

May seems to be getting her act together a bit... meeting of all Whitehall departments, £5 million pound fund, to meet (or has merit?) residents. 

[surrifox]

I haven't seen this coverage - is this a protest by people seeking answers / expressing grief or just a rent a mob ?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

3 minutes ago, surrifox said:

I haven't seen this coverage - is this a protest by people seeking answers / expressing grief or just a rent a mob ?

 

A bit of all 3... less mob I think, but the balance could easily turn. 

[Carl the Llama]

Does anyone know how many survivors have been confirmed?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Taken from Guardian life blog...

 

Theresa May has announced a package of measures to help the families affected by the Grenfell Tower fire, including £5m of cash handouts to be distributed to residents, after the government faced growing criticism over its botched response to the disaster.

 

After being widely criticised for failing to meet victims face to face, the prime minister paid two visits to the scene of the deadly blaze on Friday.

 

She met victims at a nearby hospital, before returning to Downing Street to chair a two-hour crisis meeting of cabinet ministers, including the home secretary, Amber Rudd, and communities secretary, Sajid Javid, to agree what action should be taken.

 

May then returned to the area, where families affected by the blaze were gathered in a local church to speak to her. She told them the government would make £5m available, to be distributed by the local council, for affected families to pay for anything they need – including funeral costs.

 

The government is pledging that all residents displaced by the fire will be rehoused locally within three weeks, close enough so that children can attend the same school. And, when the public inquiry into the tragedy gets under way, May said local people would be consulted and would also be given access to free legal representation, so that their concerns can be aired.

 

Downing Street sources said the prime minister had been prompted to act after hearing traumatic stories from residents who fled the scene in the early hours of the morning, “with nothing apart from the clothes they stood up in”.

 

The two-hour cabinet committee meeting marked an escalation after the government had initially relied on junior ministers to tackle the consequences of the fire, categorising it as a “civil contingency”.

Edited 16 June 2017 by DJ Barry Hammond

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

So credit for to May for finally getting her act together, HOWEVER;

 

Downing Street sources said the prime minister had been prompted to act after hearing traumatic stories from residents who fled the scene in the early hours of the morning, “with nothing apart from the clothes they stood up in”.

 

This was obvious on the night/morning of the incident. It is now Friday, this should have been put into motion that afternoon - forget the DUP for a moment, they could wait!

 

But additionally, if she didn't figure this out from the reports she was getting internally - this shows why she needed to visit the residents earlier, to ensure they were getting the support they needed. 

 

I will say, there are a couple of Conservative MP's deserving of praise here - Sajid and well done Andrea have been notably visible and I think they've taken it on themselves to that. I also expect they have made it clear to May in no uncertain terms more needed to be done. 

 

 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

8 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Does anyone know how many survivors have been confirmed?

 

Thats an interesting point... because the relief effort is being well co-ordinated (it's not but forget that), they'll have a tenancy list I expect and could be able to cross reference names of survivors they've been in contact with.

 

That then would not only give them number of surviours, but also give them an estimation of the numbers the other way, allowing the police to state "fears the death toll could be as many as xx" with a conservative estismate... because people know it's 50+, maybe over 100+.

[Webbo]

Knowing whose name is on the rent book doesn't tell us how many and who was in the flats that night. Some people could have been out that night, there could have been other people stopping in the flats who weren't normally residents.There's no point guessing, that won't change anything.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

7 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Knowing whose name is on the rent book doesn't tell us how many and who was in the flats that night. Some people could have been out that night, there could have been other people stopping in the flats who weren't normally residents.There's no point guessing, that won't change anything.

 

No... but it's a start.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

No... but it's a start.

It's already been widely quoted that they hope it won't reach 3 figures, so we know it's going to be around the 100 mark, possibly more. Official sources guessing won't bring a single person back. we'll know soon enough what the final figure is. Why are people making such a big deal out of this?

[The Guvnor]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/horrifying-time-lapse-photographs-show-just-how-quickly-grenfell-tower-went-up-in-flames/ar-BBCLnhQ?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartanntp

 

looking at the time lapse pictures from this horrific fire show how quickly the fire spread, you should never jump to conclusions I know and i'm not , but it does 'appear' that the facia on the building is alight. 

The problem is it could take a very long time to establish the overall cause of the fire development, indeed it may have been a series of individual events including weather conditions and wind directions etc which led to the ferocity and rapid spread of fire and may never be replicated.  I have no idea how many tower blocks have been refurbished with this type of cladding but 'If' it was mainly responsible for this tragedy, or, the probability at this stage suggests it could have been then what would worry me is not necessarily another flat fire triggering a large fire but anything as simple as a commercial wheelie bin pushed against similar buildings and set alight may have the potential to cause a similar problem and that is scary. I have incidentally attended fires where wheelie bins have been pushed against buildings and set alight.

Edited 16 June 2017 by The Guvnor

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Knowing whose name is on the rent book doesn't tell us how many and who was in the flats that night. Some people could have been out that night, there could have been other people stopping in the flats who weren't normally residents.There's no point guessing, that won't change anything.

To be honest the reason I ask is to gauge how far that £5m can reasonably be expected to go because my initial reaction is that it doesn't sound like anywhere near enough.  One person on the rolling newsreel said the emergency services only got to the 12th floor (out of 24) during the blaze, some people up to that floor have died while others from higher flats made it out so let's just say half of the 120 flats left survivors.  Assuming 2.5 people per flat (to make up for single-occupancy vs. large families) that gives us 150 assumed survivors for whom funeral costs of lost ones, food, shelter etc. come out of the £5m fund at a guesstimated per person average of £33.33k.  Seems a bit low, especially when you consider that I've used figures which I hope underestimate the number of people left alive.

[Guest FriendlyRam]

46 minutes ago, surrifox said:

I haven't seen this coverage - is this a protest by people seeking answers / expressing grief or just a rent a mob ?

The ones kicking off are probably anarchists, seeing an opportunity to cause meyhem. Go back to 2011 with what started out as a protest and ended up being a chance for loonies to have a big p*** up by robbing supermarkets etc. 

 

Show compassion to the real victims, but any cu*** looking for a good riot just send the armed forces out imo.

[Voll Blau]

8 minutes ago, FriendlyRam said:

The ones kicking off are probably anarchists, seeing an opportunity to cause meyhem. Go back to 2011 with what started out as a protest and ended up being a chance for loonies to have a big p*** up by robbing supermarkets etc. 

 

Show compassion to the real victims, but any cu*** looking for a good riot just send the armed forces out imo.

Yeah, that'll send a great message to the majority of peaceful protestors there! 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

37 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

To be honest the reason I ask is to gauge how far that £5m can reasonably be expected to go because my initial reaction is that it doesn't sound like anywhere near enough.  One person on the rolling newsreel said the emergency services only got to the 12th floor (out of 24) during the blaze, some people up to that floor have died while others from higher flats made it out so let's just say half of the 120 flats left survivors.  Assuming 2.5 people per flat (to make up for single-occupancy vs. large families) that gives us 150 assumed survivors for whom funeral costs of lost ones, food, shelter etc. come out of the £5m fund at a guesstimated per person average of £33.33k.  Seems a bit low, especially when you consider that I've used figures which I hope underestimate the number of people left alive.

 

I think it's an initial starting point and it is at least something. But as I've highlighted, this why there should have been a crisis team of 20 to 30 bodies on hand very quickly - because there was so much to sort out. 

 

A relative or loved ones death is hard enough to deal with itself, let alone losing your home, having no means of getting funds, clothes, etc - which many would have found themselves in (and this ignores the fact that person themselves will have survived a traumatic experience leaving them in a strange psychological state.

[yorkie1999]

Saying on the news that someone's fridge caught fire. Hope it wasn't a dodgy fridge he'd bought because that guys going to feel a bit guilty to say the least.

[separator]

25 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Saying on the news that someone's fridge caught fire. Hope it wasn't a dodgy fridge he'd bought because that guys going to feel a bit guilty to say the least.

Beko and Samsung have both had fridge recalls due to exploding fridges. The guy in question has already been outed by the Daily Mail, to his credit he was banging on doors to warn people about the fire when it happened. All allegedly of course... let's wait for the investigation before fingers are pointed 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, The Guvnor said:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/horrifying-time-lapse-photographs-show-just-how-quickly-grenfell-tower-went-up-in-flames/ar-BBCLnhQ?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartanntp

 

looking at the time lapse pictures from this horrific fire show how quickly the fire spread, you should never jump to conclusions I know and i'm not , but it does 'appear' that the facia on the building is alight. 

The problem is it could take a very long time to establish the overall cause of the fire development, indeed it may have been a series of individual events including weather conditions and wind directions etc which led to the ferocity and rapid spread of fire and may never be replicated.  I have no idea how many tower blocks have been refurbished with this type of cladding but 'If' it was mainly responsible for this tragedy, or, the probability at this stage suggests it could have been then what would worry me is not necessarily another flat fire triggering a large fire but anything as simple as a commercial wheelie bin pushed against similar buildings and set alight may have the potential to cause a similar problem and that is scary. I have incidentally attended fires where wheelie bins have been pushed against buildings and set alight.

The company that made the cladding have said that they were instructed to produce the less fire retardant version which cost £2/sm less. 

This is where cuts get you. 

[l444ry]

Shame it has taken this tragedy and the bombings for the UK to start to regain its social conscience. Better late than never but I hope that the selfish neoliberalist agenda that has seduced so many and has wrecked our country is washed away never to return.

[RODNEY FERNIO]

Today's headline is tomorrow's chip wrapper paper.

Well that's what the hierarchy wants.

Hope not as this this has struck a chord with the nation ... the nation wants answers 

[Guesty]

37 minutes ago, toddybad said:

The company that made the cladding have said that they were instructed to produce the less fire retardant version which cost £2/sm less. 

This is where cuts get you. 

 

Instead of saying this is the less fire retardant cladding. The company should be saying: this is the extremely flammable version, which in the case of a fire will be more like an accelerant.

 

Whilst there's no excuse for taking the least flammable cladding given the cost wasn't much cheaper. People at this company and the fire safety people who test and sign off on this stuff are just as much to blame if not more so. 

 

 

[The Floyd]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/622861/London-fire-violence-riots-on-streets-Grenfell-Tower-Kensington

 

Are these morons so blinded by their own self-importance that they fail to see the hypocrisy in their actions? 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/622861/London-fire-violence-riots-on-streets-Grenfell-Tower-Kensington

 

Are these morons so blinded by their own self-importance that they fail to see the hypocrisy in their actions? 

I fail to see the hypocrisy?

[The Floyd]

Just now, toddybad said:

I fail to see the hypocrisy?

They're angry because innocent people died, understandably, yet then attack an innocent old councillor. They say they're after action, Theresa May pledges £5mil to survivors, they riot anyway. 

[l444ry]

12 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/622861/London-fire-violence-riots-on-streets-Grenfell-Tower-Kensington

 

Are these morons so blinded by their own self-importance that they fail to see the hypocrisy in their actions? 

You quote the Daily Star then call disenfranchised people who have lost friends, neighbours and family morons? Jeeez!