Huge fire London building

[Strokes]

56 minutes ago, MattP said:

Do these people literally just spend their whole lives going from protest to protest? 

Rent a mob!

[DJ Barry Hammond]

35 minutes ago, Lionator said:

There's way too much tick for tack with the tragedy. Labour this, Tories that. Obviously there's catastrophic political mistakes which have been made however both sides are so blind to the fact that mistakes were probably made by people belonging to their party. Human lives are being used as political chess pieces and it makes me sad.

 

The difficulty here is there are some obvious politically edged questions that are right to pose and it's happened off the back of an extordinary election so some of the related points (austerity, social housing, class divide) were already out there.

 

But yes, the tick for tack has been ramping up, the finger pointing is incessant and of course a lot of those making accusations of someone 'politicking' are by doing so guilty of the very same charge. 

 

All of it leaves me wondering - where are all the decent people that can put tribal loyalties aside and simply push a point for the interests of the greater good? 

[Strokes]

14 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

yeah because the Tories look well clued up at the moment don't they m8.

 

give it a rest ffs. 

Because one thing is crap, it doesn't mean the alternative is going to be better.

[Buce]

57 minutes ago, Lionator said:

There's way too much tick for tack with the tragedy. Labour this, Tories that. Obviously there's catastrophic political mistakes which have been made however both sides are so blind to the fact that mistakes were probably made by people belonging to their party. Human lives are being used as political chess pieces and it makes me sad.

 

12 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

The difficulty here is there are some obvious politically edged questions that are right to pose and it's happened off the back of an extordinary election so some of the related points (austerity, social housing, class divide) were already out there.

 

But yes, the tick for tack has been ramping up, the finger pointing is incessant and of course a lot of those making accusations of someone 'politicking' are by doing so guilty of the very same charge. 

 

All of it leaves me wondering - where are all the decent people that can put tribal loyalties aside and simply push a point for the interests of the greater good? 

 

 

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tit-for-tat

[lifted*fox]

moved to election thread - probably more suited to that thread.

Edited 18 June 2017 by daz*dsb

[foxy boxing]

At the end of the day people have died and if is because of negligence or malpractice then these people need to be held accountable for their actions and be brought to justice and an inquiry needs to find out why this happened, could it have been prevented and what can be done to stop it happening again and the recommendations need to be passed in full and not ignored or watered down and people need to take responsibility

[Carl the Llama]

3 hours ago, Thracian said:

And anyone, including councillors, responsible for ignoring  similar warnings in relation to other tower blocks in Labour or any other administratve areas, I'm sure you'd agree. Because there needs to be a more widespread inquiry than relates to just this one tower block. I'd doubt any government would want a repeat. 

You really are insufferable at times.  We all remember how happy you were to lay into the Labour council at Rotherham and make it clear that the problem there was a symptom of the existence of left-wingers, asserting how that kind of thing would never happen in a Conservative utopia and ignoring people trying to explain that because it happened in a labour council it doesn't necessarily mean that all left-wingers would have allowed it to happen... yet when a Tory council and a succession of Tory ministers fail to address an issue that leads to scores of deaths you're suddenly Mr. Bipartisan, keen to make us aware that everyone across the spectrum makes errors like this and we would be wrong to seek to hold one single party accountable.  It's astonishing.

[FoxesDeb]

13 hours ago, Thracian said:

I referred to a list of residents earlier, wondering where it was because it's obvious there are more victims. It was obvious from the time the building was seen burning. Why is there no official list of residents? Or visitors, temporary or otherwise?.

 

What is the truth?  And why is it not coming out? Someone must know or be able to make a pretty informed guess about how many people were likely to have been in that building. 

 

There were 120 one and two-bedroomed flats in that building. So would that be two people to the one-bedroomed and four for the two-bedroomed - notionally around 360 people depending on the numbers of each type of flat?

 

That would suggest a figure approaching 300 missing people, assuming all the flats were occupied and all the tenants were home, which wouldn't necessarily be so. But even half that would be 150, still a significant number. 

 

And maybe some flats had more occupants  - more small children, people staying temporarily (officially or otherwise), and some short-term visitors....why is it so hard to come up with a realistic calculation using the council's data and local knowledge?

 

There are many other questions for a later time but I also wonder if there's more to this than meets the eye.

 

I've listened to two mighty fine orators being interviewed so far - two out of two and both speaking at great length, with much thought and with great impact.

 

It's a small sample but it still doesn't quite ring right.

 

It's as if the situation's being manipulated way beyond residents' outpouring of grief and despair.

 

I could be wrong of course.. 

 

But, either way, Mrs May will be gone, trapped in a vacuum of inadequacy she couldn't escape.

 

And the tragedy of Grenfell Tower will become a sad but significant mark in our history.    

 

  

 

          

The figure given by the council of households rehomed after the fire is 107. So I'm not sure where the figure of missing people you give comes from? Using your own calculations that must equate to over 300 people rehomed, and not missing.

[Buce]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

You really are insufferable at times.  We all remember how happy you were to lay into the Labour council at Rotherham and make it clear that the problem there was a symptom of the existence of left-wingers, asserting how that kind of thing would never happen in a Conservative utopia and ignoring people trying to explain that because it happened in a labour council it doesn't necessarily mean that all left-wingers would have allowed it to happen... yet when a Tory council and a succession of Tory ministers fail to address an issue that leads to scores of deaths you're suddenly Mr. Bipartisan, keen to make us aware that everyone across the spectrum makes errors like this and we would be wrong to seek to hold one single party accountable.  It's astonishing.

 

Par for the course, I'd say.

Edited 18 June 2017 by Buce

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

Finally, it seems the Government is getting it together and putting practical messaures in place. Just such a shame these things were immediate thoughts by those with the ability to effect these actions.

Edited 18 June 2017 by DJ Barry Hammond

[Rincewind]

Another gem from Jonathan Pie

 

 

[reynard]

1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Finally, it seems the Government is getting it together and putting practical messaures in place. Just such a shame these things were immediate thoughts by those with the ability to effect these actions.

Exactly. Both the central government/the local council and the Mayor of London have been utterly useless. May should resign as should the mayor of London and the head of the local council. All have been tested and found to be totally wanting.

[Guest MattP]

8 hours ago, daz*dsb said:

yeah because the Tories look well clued up at the moment don't they m8.

 

give it a rest ffs. 

Well now I'm totally convinced.

 

Bring on the loonies.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, MattP said:

Exactly the same asinine tubthumping nonsense we heard from Syriza in Greece.

 

Then they ended up getting into power and didn't have a clue what to do, exactly the same would happen here with Corbyn and his band of lunatics.

 

You'll soon find out "days of rage" don't generate cash for the treasury to stop all those cuts you hate.

Utter nonsense. There is no comparison between greece and the uk. Just more useless soundbites in place of evidence or fact.

[katieakita]

Would have thought anyone looking at the issues in Greece would point to the vast amount of tax avoidance as a major issue more Conservative thinking than Labour if I am not mistaken

[Tielemans63]

Just been reading that the fire retardant cladding would have cost the borough council £6k more. ****ing £6k. 

 

Who do the Daily Mail stick on their front page? The poor Ethiopian ****er whose fridge caused the fire. Not the greedy ***** who knowingly risked people's lives for the sake of 6 grand. Pathetic.

[Jon the Hat]

The council didn't manage the project did they? This housing board did.  

[separator]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The council didn't manage the project did they? This housing board did.  

The housing association were working on behalf of the council.. the council have to take responsibility for this

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, separator said:

The housing association were working on behalf of the council.. the council have to take responsibility for this

Obviously, but that doesn't mean they made that decision.  You can't delegate risk, the buck stops with the council.

[separator]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Obviously, but that doesn't mean they made that decision.  You can't delegate risk, the buck stops with the council.

Theres been a massive failure with loads of organizations that all came together in one horrific fire.... everything from unsafe fridges, unsafe cladding, and the authorities that signed them off as ok. Using cheap materials still shouldn't result in a fire on this scale. 

[Guest MattP]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

 

One for the idiots who keep trying to rally and stir people up to protest.

[AKCJ]

The number of people dead or missing presumed dead is up to 79 now.

[Jon the Hat]

52 minutes ago, MattP said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

 

One for the idiots who keep trying to rally and stir people up to protest.

Yeah, ****in suits.  Clearly if you wear a suit and you aren't in court then you must be Tory scum who killed all those people and that.

[Jon the Hat]

51 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

The number of people dead or missing presumed dead is up to 79 now.

Truly a disaster without comparison in recent times.

[lgfualol]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

The number of people dead or missing presumed dead is up to 79 now.

Wouldn't be shocked if this figure doubles by the end of the search. They found 42 people in just one room apparently.