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spacemunky

Huge fire London building

By spacemunky, in General Chat

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Steven

Steven

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, MattP said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/02/grenfell-tower-residents-nearby-will-not-have-to-pay-rent-says-council

 

What do people think of the decision not to prosecute those who come forward?

 

At best they are criminals who've defrauded taxpayers & stolen social housing from families who need them.

 

At worst, well.....

You are talking about those who choose cheaper cladding; right?

  • Like 1
Guest Kopfkino

Guest Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, MattP said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/02/grenfell-tower-residents-nearby-will-not-have-to-pay-rent-says-council

 

What do people think of the decision not to prosecute those who come forward?

 

At best they are criminals who've defrauded taxpayers & stolen social housing from families who need them.

 

At worst, well.....

 

There's not much to be gained from prosecution at this stage. It's more important to get the information and if it aids that process then I don't have a problem

James.

James.

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Are you replying to Matt P? The people subletting the flats aren't victims in any shape or form, nobody is going to prosecute the person renting it, who is a victim.

Oh, well that's a relief then. I misread the sub-header in the article and thought it was about not prosecuting people who were illegally renting.

 

To be honest even in this situation I think the need for truth and a final death toll outweighs the need to prosecute sub-letters.

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, MattP said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/02/grenfell-tower-residents-nearby-will-not-have-to-pay-rent-says-council

 

What do people think of the decision not to prosecute those who come forward?

 

At best they are criminals who've defrauded taxpayers & stolen social housing from families who need them.

 

At worst, well.....

 

At worst, what?

 

Sorry, you'll have to spell it out, Matt.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, James. said:

Whatever they were before they are now victims of a horrendous tragedy and as such should be treated accordingly. I'd be pretty worried about the humanity of anyone who argues otherwise.

 

And to be honest whatever people may privately think, given the delicate civil and political situation around this, surely no one in power would dare to publicly suggest prosecution.

I'm talking about the sub-letters, not the victims.

 

I just don't see why people should be let off committing a pretty serious crime just because the victims went through an absolutely horrific death and we now need information, to be honest I find it quite disturbing.

 

10 minutes ago, Steven said:

You are talking about those who choose cheaper cladding; right?

If Health and Safety laws have been broken of course, if we are going to jail every councillor who voted for cladding to be put up we'll need to build a few new prisons.

Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MattP said:

I just don't see why people should be let off committing a pretty serious crime just because the victims went through an absolutely horrific death and we now need information, to be honest I find it quite disturbing.

Quite simply we might never know who died if they don't come forward, so it's about what we think is more important. Establishing who was there, or prosecuting people who sub let them.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Buce said:

At worst, what?

 

Sorry, you'll have to spell it out, Matt.

Well, at worst they could be the sort who were prepared to take advantage of desperate people to make a quick buck for themselves, happy to trouser a lot of money for pushing 20 odd illegal immigrants into one flat to live like cattle.

 

I'm uncomfortable with an amnesty for the sort of people who have done that and profited from it.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Fair enough guys, I accept the opinion that the truth and final death toll is more important, it makes me feel very uneasy though.

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
Just now, MattP said:

Well, at worst they could be the sort who were prepared to take advantage of desperate people to make a quick buck for themselves, happy to trouser a lot of money for pushing 20 odd illegal immigrants into one flat to live like cattle.

 

I'm uncomfortable with an amnesty for the sort of people who have done that and profited from it.

 

Ah, ok. I wasn't being confrontational, I genuinely couldn't see what you were getting at.

 

That's a tough one; on the one hand I share your sentiments regarding such hypothetical people. On the other, it may be the only way to actually find out who - and how many- died.

 

It's a moot point, anyway - feelings are running too high for the Govt to do anything else. 

Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted

Interesting article about the conspicuous absence of sensationalist headlines in the Mail, the Sun about the body count. The kind of headlines they normally run.

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/ryan-osullivan-matilda-wnek/where-are-missing-how-tabloids-underplayed-deaths-at-grenfell-for-the

 

It's saying there are reports about the body count being much higher, the kind of thing that'd sell papers, the kind of thing they'd normally run with to sell papers, true or false. But they're not, since to amplify the tragedy places further focus on the root cause: lack of government spending and regulation, something they may not want to focus on too much.

 

Quote

The British press claim they don't want to speculate on numbers until they have an official body count. That’s laudable. But very responsible reporting has become widespread overnight where it never was before.


‘Singer Lily Allen: 150 dead in Grenfell inferno’


‘Police Commissioner ‘HOPES the death toll won’t reach TRIPLE figures as 600 feared to have been in Grenfell’


‘Locals claiming 100 bodies taken to ONE hospital as protests mount over lack of tenants register’


‘Furious local resident claims Kensington & Chelsea Council will be paying for FIVE HUNDRED FUNERALS’

 

These headlines would sell more papers than anything any British news editor has printed so far. If Lily Allen claims a fireman told her the death toll is three times the government’s figure, it doesn’t mean it’s the truth. But it does mean the most incredible front page splash the British tabloids have had in a long time.

 

But these aren’t the headlines in The Mail, The Sun, or The Times this week. Why not? The profit-seeking ‘run it now and pay the legal bills afterwards’ tabloid media to which we’ve grown accustomed are now not printing the headlines that would sell the most papers. This needs some attention.

 

The press claim they don't want to speculate on numbers until they have an official body count. That’s laudable. But very responsible reporting has become widespread overnight where it never was before. Suddenly, and quite miraculously, the corporately-owned media no longer seem interested in selling papers and turning a profit. Shareholders must be scratching their heads.

 

If the tragedy at Grenfell could be spun a different way (imagine if the fires were caused by a plane flying into the building) The Mail, The Sun, The Times and plenty of others would be speculating. They’d be looking for an interview with the witness or relative claiming the highest numbers, and they would print that – in quotation marks if their lawyers told them to.

 

The headlines after 9/11 are a good example: “Hundreds of Britons among the dead” went The Mail two days after (in fact the number was much lower); ‘Hundreds of Britons dead’ was The Telegraph’s, The Sun ran with, “They Must Have Killed Thousands”, and The Times, “Death Toll of Thousands and Hundreds of Burn Victims Feared”. Both headlines were published the day after the attack and long before a coroner’s report came out. If Grenfell could be spun differently, the incredible, stomach-turning interview in which local resident DJ Isla estimates the need for 500 funerals, would be the feed-in to every Sky News report.

 

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Interesting article about the conspicuous absence of sensationalist headlines in the Mail, the Sun about the body count. The kind of headlines they normally run.

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/ryan-osullivan-matilda-wnek/where-are-missing-how-tabloids-underplayed-deaths-at-grenfell-for-the

 

It's saying there are reports about the body count being much higher, the kind of thing that'd sell papers, the kind of thing they'd normally run with to sell papers, true or false. But they're not, since to amplify the tragedy places further focus on the root cause: lack of government spending and regulation, something they may not want to focus on too much.

 

 

 

Tory Press In Biased Reporting Shock!

  • 3 weeks later...
DJ Barry Hammond

DJ Barry Hammond

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Strokes said:

It's great that they will be investigating with this charge in mind, I hope they get enough evidence to convict anyone guilty of neglecting their duties.

 

The diffiuculty they may have is apportioning a sufficient level of responsibility towards a particular person or persons. Sadly, I can see this going horribly wrong where a scapegoat is found, put through trial and then it collapses.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Strokes said:

It's great that they will be investigating with this charge in mind, I hope they get enough evidence to convict anyone guilty of neglecting their duties.

From what I've read only a company can be charged with this and be subject to a fine, not any individual.

 

Which will really piss off a lot of people as they seem to be demanding someone gets locked up for this.

 

2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

The diffiuculty they may have is apportioning a sufficient level of responsibility towards a particular person or persons. Sadly, I can see this going horribly wrong where a scapegoat is found, put through trial and then it collapses.

No one has ever been found guilty of this charge, that's how hard it is to convict.

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I think it's really nice these poor kids have had a day of escapism. Click on the link and read the below the line comments though. So many people have so much hatred for the rest of humanity. If anyone gets something for nothing their entire world becomes dark and angry. It's what disturbs me about much discourse we have these days. People's suffering matters less than making sure nobody gets something we don't. 

 

 

  • 3 months later...
stripeyfox

stripeyfox

Posted
Posted

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42008279

 

Seventy one victims of the Grenfell Tower fire have been formally identified and police believe that all those who died have now been recovered.

The number of victims includes baby Logan Gomes, who was stillborn in hospital on 14 June, the day the 24-storey blaze broke out.

The identities of the last two bodies found in the west London block were confirmed by the coroner on Tuesday.

The Met said it was providing "every support we can" to the bereaved.

Metropolitan Police Commander Stuart Cundy said: "I have been clear from the start that a priority for us was recovering all those who died, and identifying and returning them to their families.

"Specialist teams working inside Grenfell Tower and the mortuary have pushed the boundaries of what was scientifically possible to identify people.

"After the fire was finally put out, I entered Grenfell Tower and was genuinely concerned that due to the intensity and duration of the fire, that we may not find, recover and then identify all those who died.

"I know that each and every member of the team has done absolutely all they can to make this possible."

p05n772v.jpg
 
 
Media captionFamilies, firefighters and those affected by the fire are being offered free holidays in Cornwall

In June, the Met had a list of 400 missing people - some of whom were reported a number of times under different names or spellings, with one person in particular recorded 46 separate times.

The work to investigate and locate all those reported as missing was only concluded in the last few weeks, the Met said.

The original missing persons list was also made higher by fraudulent cases, police said, with some individuals attempting to benefit financially from the tragedy.

There are a number of ongoing fraud investigations, and earlier this month one man pleaded guilty to fraud after claiming that his wife and son had both died in the fire.

Searching every flat

Commander Cundy told BBC News: "There was only one way in and out of the tower and [CCTV] footage shows 223 people came out and survived."

He said not all 223 people were residents, some were visitors, and some residents were not in the tower at the time.

While the final stage of the search operation is not expected to conclude until early December, the Met said in a statement: "Based on all the work carried out so far and the expert advice, it is highly unlikely there is anyone who remains inside Grenfell Tower".

Specially trained officers from the Met, City of London Police and British Transport Police have been involved in the search and recovery operation, thoroughly searching every single flat on every single floor.

Officers have examined 15.5 tonnes of debris on each floor, helped by forensic anthropologists, archaeologists and forensic dentists or odontologists.

  • 3 months later...
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