Huge fire London building

[Great Boos Up]

I'm sure the Prime Minister of any party would want to be informed of this terrible event and possibly have been told of just how many people died. It is probably more than all the recent terrorist attacks and they died horribly.

I want my prime minister to get publicly involved now whomever it is. Some propaganda posts I've just read make me want to puke.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

Anyone on any side of the political spectrum using this for petty point scoring is a ****ing cvnt tbh.

 

 

True. 

But people need to be able to point out failings in government, national or local, without being accused of 'petty point scoring'.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

True. 

But people need to be able to point out failings in government, national or local, without being accused of 'petty point scoring'.

 

Definitely. 

 

Not arguing that at all.

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, Guesty said:

I think there's a difference from having a political discussion and silly political point scoring. Both of which you can see in this thread. 

 

You can see from some of the news that experts knew this cladding was dangerous and it's been going on buildings for years and years. There have been fires on other buildings. Seems like it was only a matter of time, but the people who mattered were burying their head in the sand or never expected loss of life on this scale.

 

No doubt as it goes on we'll find mass incompetence everywhere. I know from working in local government the amount of incompetence in management is staggering in some places. People are promoted on time served or who they know and not ability. Those people then only promote people like them. Any subordinate who disagrees is forced out or leaves meaning incompetence spreads. All the best staff leave. This builds up until it reaches a catastrophic breaking point. 

 

I just hope this is an independent investigation with no political interference at all. As i imagine there will be buildings all over the country that have been refurbished in Labour and Tory constituents and there's blame on both sides. Local government tend to give all this work to the same companies. Just look in Scotland when all the exterior walls started falling down in high wind at the new schools and all new buildings had to be closed down as they were all structurally unsafe. It's riddled with bureaucratic bullshit.

 

For example, I worked in a school that was refurbished years ago and the contract was with a big company; everything that went in the school had to come through deals with this company. The year prior the school had spent thousands on new computers. All of these had to be chucked in a special skip (weren't allowed to be sold or donated) and the school had to buy new computers at twice the value and a worse spec. There were so many other problems because stuff was done on the cheap or not thought through properly. 

 

The local governments/organisations involved in this aren't doing interviews. I bet they're all in a room having a mass arse-covering, blame-game meeting. Along with a lot of other people. Because they've just ignored valid concerns.

 

It seems though unofficially, some police think there could be around 150 dead. There needs to be proper accountability no matter how many people it affects - not mass pay-offs when people just say sorry because they were incompetent. 

Totally agree, those culpable need to be found and dealt with, so something like this does not happen again.

Id like to add that I've spent today and am scheduled for tomorrow to maintain housing association properties and previously had other jobs. I think people's arses are twitching.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, bovril said:

True. 

But people need to be able to point out failings in government, national or local, without being accused of 'petty point scoring'.

I've no problem with them pointing that out and I've done as much but there are some exaggerated outrages and some very naughty digs that are nothing of the sort. 

[bovril]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Definitely. 

 

Not arguing that at all.

I am sure. 

There is a bit of an obsession at the moment with calling out anybody who politicises a tragedy. But sometimes uncomfortable things need to be discussed soon after a tragedy. One man's petty point scoring is another man's straight talking. 

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I've no problem with them pointing that out and I've done as much but there are some exaggerated outrages and some very naughty digs that are nothing of the sort. 

Agreed. 

A lot of faux outrage from some people who do the same thing though.

Edited 15 June 2017 by bovril

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, bovril said:

Agreed. 

A lot of faux outrage from some people who do the same thing though.

Maybe, but I don't think I'm included in that, unless you think otherwise?

I normally keep out of disaster threads until my head is clear to try and avoid being overly emotional, this one was a bit closer to home because of my job. I hope you aren't saying that I am culpable of similar?

 

[bovril]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Maybe, but I don't think I'm included in that, unless you think otherwise?

I normally keep out of disaster threads until my head is clear to try and avoid being overly emotional, this one was a bit closer to home because of my job. I hope you aren't saying that I am culpable of similar?

 

Nope. 

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

Nope. 

Is it me?

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Is it me?

I can't believe people think cladding is better than paint webbo 

[Sharpe's Fox]

Looks like Tories are the only ones getting riled but that's none of my business ?☕️

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Is it me?

It's not directed at anybody particularly.

Anyway don't want to hijack the thread... 

[Webbo]

Just now, Strokes said:

I can't believe people think cladding is better than paint webbo 

I haven't got a ladder that can reach the 27th floor.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I haven't got a ladder that can reach the 27th floor.

I forgot you were too old to abseil.

Might need a bit more than paint now though.

[sphericalfox]

Let me share my thoughts further. 

 

This disaster is horrendous. Every time on the telly that I see victims' friends, family, the community affected by this tragedy I'm near tears. I lived in a similar tenancy myself in the past. I think to myself should I live in one now with my kids, and was faced with the horror that those unfortunate people had to, I wonder what I would do. The suffering that the community face and will face in the next few weeks is immeasurable, they have my deepest sympathies, and simply can't imagine what they are going through.

 

Ultimately, social housing and politics are inseparable.

 

The council decided to spend nearly £9m or so putting on a facade on that building, not spending £0.5m on actually bringing the building into a safe state, by installing a fire system and/or sprinklers. It could be argued the facade was to appease the richer neighbours, but that's mere speculation. But serious questions need to be asked given the number of significant attempts to draw to the council the necessity to manage the risk and danger of the building itself.

 

People saying that May isn't a people person, and shouldn't have to face the public affected, is bollocks. She might have strips pulled off her. Yeah no shit! She is the PM and these are her citizens who have been traumatised by an awful disaster, which is looking like it might due a negligent council. If she met with the community or leaders of the community in private then well done to her, but the similarities of Thatcher's visit to Hillsborough is stark, not petty. It is of equal measure.

 

I find it ironic that a couple of those who have piped up to call me a **** or a shit, or the same ones who regularly provoke bullshit with bullshit. I've literally only drawn a comparable with a comparable. If the truth hurts then so be it.

 

 

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Looks like Tories are the only ones getting riled but that's none of my business ?☕️

Even an absolute scoundrel like yourself wouldn't use this place to score political points would you? ?

[Sharpe's Fox]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Even an absolute scoundrel like yourself wouldn't use this place to score political points would you? ?

Yeah obv I'm a scumbag did exactly the same in one of the terrorist attack threads. To suggest there wasn't a underlying political cause to to a fire in a council block is just delusion. Tories putting fingers in their ears and screaming "don't politicise it!" is an understanding that the party they support is partially responsible but they don't want to hear it.

[Sharpe's Fox]

[Wymsey]

How the building is still standing seemingly securely is quite remarkable given the incident.

[separator]

8 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Yeah obv I'm a scumbag did exactly the same in one of the terrorist attack threads. To suggest there wasn't a underlying political cause to to a fire in a council block is just delusion. Tories putting fingers in their ears and screaming "don't politicise it!" is an understanding that the party they support is partially responsible but they don't want to hear it.

How can an (allegedly) exploding fridge causing a fire in a building clad with a material signed off as safe be a Tory responsibility. There have been lots of failures in this tragedy, it's unprecedented how quickly this fire spread.

[Lionator]

I can't begin to write how angry this incident has made me. A disgusting event and a climax of years of neglect. It's almost incomparable but all year I've lived in a student house with no landlord owned by a property company which was a literal death trap, completely run down, loose wiring, ill-fitted kitchen appliences, loose chunks of wood. Nothing changed and it was only with threats to the citizens advice service. The lower classes are completely taken advantage of, it's even worse when you hear about the habitable housing downvote from last year. This country needs to change in so many ways.

[Beliall]

lily allen stating off the record numbers of 150 deaths, such a tragedy if true. watch from 3.00 for that part

 

[lgfualol]

150... ****ing hell.

 

Can barely read about this tragedy anymore. Eyes fill up every time. 

[Guest]

The point made about conflicts of interest when landlord mps vote on issues which would cost landlords money is a very good one.