Webbo Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Regional peace Free trade Sorry I forgot about all those European wars we were involved in between 1945 and 1972. You don't believe in free trade anyway, you don't want a deal with America, the commonwealth or China. You think it's a threat to jobs. I've got to go out now for a couple of hours, see if you can think of an original/clever question for when I get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Sorry I forgot about all those European wars we were involved in between 1945 and 1972. Oooooh sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: The common fisheries policy, the common agricultural policy, the external tariff, uncontrolled freedom of movement, our contribution to the budget,working time directive there's the new financial services regs that the city are complaining about. I'm sure there are others. Why didnt you just name them all at the beginning? How is the common fisheries policy damaging your life? How has immigration damaged your life? do you not have a job? there is no evidence of wage compression in any sector in the UK except for fruit picking apparently, are you a fruit picker? If the EU was totally responsible for all our immigration policy every EU countries policy would look exactly the same, so why is Belgiums policy more strict than ours? Do you feel your life is being damaged by the working time directive? your life is being damaged by a law that stops your boss making you work as many hours a week as they want? the working time directive gives you a choice anyway, you can opt out of it if you WANT to work more than 48 hours a week. Why would you want to take away a persons choice on that??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 4 hours ago, Rogstanley said: We already have free trade with Morocco via the EU, so if we don’t buy oranges from there already then it’s probably because they’re more expensive or of lower quality. So, assuming we quickly agree a free trade deal with Morocco, which is by no means guaranteed, we will still be worse off. The free-trade agreement with Morocco is mainly industrial goods and some agricultural goods. There are still tariffs on Oranges and many foodstuffs, namely to protect Spanish and Italian farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Donut said: So you cant name any then. Youre angry youre living in a political system thats damaging your life by imposing laws on you that you cant name and that you dont know what they are. Theres no point in me telling you what laws the EU didnt create or how many because ive just said that none of the laws the EU created were damaging my life or taking away my freedom. You must have felt that there were laws that were doing this because you wanted to "take back control" yet you cant say what they are. So how is the EU directly enriching your life and why do you care about staying? Edited 24 February 2018 by Strokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 (edited) So a self-employed person doesn’t like the working time directive even though it has no impact on them. Such is level of desperation to bend over for big business. Cucky McCuck and half, that. The right wing really are the most pathetic, subservient, piss-weak cohort of men in history. I’m embarrassed for and by you. Edited 24 February 2018 by Rogstanley 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: So a self-employed person doesn’t like the working time directive even though it has no impact on them. Such is level of desperation to bend over for big business. Cucky McCuck and half, that. You don’t like the benefit system even though it has no impact on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 2 hours ago, Webbo said: I don't think it's unsubstantiated but yeah, lets leave it at that. The basis of most of your arguments seems to be "It must be like this, because that's how I feel it is". I can see why you voted for Brexit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 1 minute ago, Strokes said: You don’t like the benefit system even though it has no impact on you. When did I say I didn’t like the benefit system? Ugh, actually, you know what, I’m doing a toddy and disappearing for a bit. It actually makes me angry how weak willed some of you lot are. See you later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 Just now, Strokes said: So how is the EU enriching your life and why do you care about staying? Arguing for a status quo is never going to be as easy as a change. But the EU doesnt damage my life, we are part of a huge single market with tariff free trade amongst the countries, i have the opportunity to work or study in another country, we trade with other countries around the world anyway its not a new phenomenon. The EU also invests into agriculture, science projects etc gives more certainty about jobs, like the people of sunderland who voted out when car exporting is one of their key industries. Surely thats like a turkey voting for christmas? Ive seen things on the news like bank of england reports claiming no scenario will leave us better off after brexit so its all about mitigating damage rather than gaining anything, the pound has gone down which is good for exports so people say but i dont export anything I dont see anything that comes out of brexit that will improve my life thats why i voted remain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 Look at this big pigeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: When did I say I didn’t like the benefit system? Ugh, actually, you know what, I’m doing a toddy and disappearing for a bit. It actually makes me angry how weak willed some of you lot are. See you later. See you mate x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 7 minutes ago, Strokes said: So how is the EU enriching your life and why do you care about staying? And if someone is citing "taking back control" as a reason to leave, and then first of all not being able to cite a single example of laws made by the EU that damage their life, and then listing a few laws after that that theyve had to look up as they couldnt name them straight away that literally have zero impact them anyway, then thats not a very persuasive argument in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 1 minute ago, Donut said: Arguing for a status quo is never going to be as easy as a change. But the EU doesnt damage my life, we are part of a huge single market with tariff free trade amongst the countries, i have the opportunity to work or study in another country, we trade with other countries around the world anyway its not a new phenomenon. The EU also invests into agriculture, science projects etc gives more certainty about jobs, like the people of sunderland who voted out when car exporting is one of their key industries. Surely thats like a turkey voting for christmas? Ive seen things on the news like bank of england reports claiming no scenario will leave us better off after brexit so its all about mitigating damage rather than gaining anything, the pound has gone down which is good for exports so people say but i dont export anything I dont see anything that comes out of brexit that will improve my life thats why i voted remain. There is no reason we can’t get get a trade deal with the EU, as for the investments, there is no reason we can’t continue that if we so wish. We are a net contributor to the EU so they are only spending money give them here anyway. Fair enough you will be restricted from working within the EU and would need a permit but that clearly isn’t enough for the rest of us to vote with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Donut said: And if someone is citing "taking back control" as a reason to leave, and then first of all not being able to cite a single example of laws made by the EU that damage their life, and then listing a few laws after that that theyve had to look up as they couldnt name them straight away that literally have zero impact them anyway, then thats not a very persuasive argument in my opinion. I gave you two when you asked me yeaterday. I would prefer a democracy that is a little closer to electorate on big decisions and I’m prepared to be a bit poorer to get that if necessary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 Just now, Strokes said: I gave you two when you asked me yeaterday. I would prefer a democracy that is a little closer to electorate on big decisions and I’m prepared to be a bit poorer to get that if necessary. Yes but the question wasnt directed at you initially. It was directed at someone who didnt like the EU making laws for them, and then not being able to name a single example. And on the second part of your sentence, are you honestly, HONESTLY happy to be WORSE OFF FINANCIALLY for the sake of this "sovereignty" idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 11 minutes ago, Charl91 said: The basis of most of your arguments seems to be "It must be like this, because that's how I feel it is". I can see why you voted for Brexit. It’s funny though, we all take the hate crime figures as gospel when it suits but when a hate crime doesn’t have to be proven to be recorded as a hate crime, isn’t that also then unsubstantiated nazi propaganda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 1 minute ago, Donut said: Yes but the question wasnt directed at you initially. It was directed at someone who didnt like the EU making laws for them, and then not being able to name a single example. And on the second part of your sentence, are you honestly, HONESTLY happy to be WORSE OFF FINANCIALLY for the sake of this "sovereignty" idea? Absolutely, I value democracy and choice above finances. You did direct the question at me iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharpe's Fox Posted 24 February 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 24 February 2018 https://labour.org.uk/press/senior-tory-apologises-libellous-tweet-jeremy-corbyn/ Czech mate 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, MattP said: Completely agree. I'm convinced a lot of Labour voters, especially younger ones, didn't know what they were voting for. Amazing really, in terms of voting since 1976, Corbyn is more Eurosceptic than even Farage. People really should watch or read the news. Your "85% of the population voted to leave Europe, because they didn't vote for Lib Dems" argument is horribly flawed. I accept that some young people may have been under the impression that Corbyn was Pro-EU, though maybe less than you think. However, the reason no-one voted for Lib Dems is because everyone knew they had no chance of winning in our ridiculous first-past-the-post system. I voted Labour (my first time voting for them) this time around. Not because I believed they were Pro-Europe, but because in my area it's a two-horse race between Labour and the Tories; I chose what I believed to be the lesser of two evils, and I know many of my peers did the same thing. If voting for Lib Dems, it ensured that we would stay in Europe, then maybe they would've earned my vote, but the reality of the matter is that the only thing that it would've done is given the Tories an even bigger majority, thus giving May more of a mandate for her "Hard Brexit" fetish. Maybe I was slightly hopeful that Labour (if not Corbyn) would be more Brexit-lite than the Tories, but there were also many other personal issues/reasons for not wanting the Tories in power, regardless of their approach to Brexit. You're either being incredibly naive (which I highly doubt), or (more likely) you're enjoying your favourite role as Foxes-Talk Brexit Spin Doctor , and horribly misrepresenting the situation to imply that people didn't care about Brexit because they didn't vote for the Lib Dems. It's the same as saying "42% of the population voted to hunt foxes". Voting for a party doesn't mean that you endorse all of their views. ...It also speaks volumes about our current voting system that I feel disinclined to vote for my party of choice, but what can you do. Edited 24 February 2018 by Charl91 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 53 minutes ago, Charl91 said: Your "85% of the population voted to leave Europe, because they didn't vote for Lib Dems" argument is horribly flawed. I accept that some young people may have been under the impression that Corbyn was Pro-EU, though maybe less than you think. However, the reason no-one voted for Lib Dems is because everyone knew they had no chance of winning in our ridiculous first-past-the-post system. I voted Labour (my first time voting for them) this time around. Not because I believed they were Pro-Europe, but because in my area it's a two-horse race between Labour and the Tories; I chose what I believed to be the lesser of two evils, and I know many of my peers did the same thing. If voting for Lib Dems, it ensured that we would stay in Europe, then maybe they would've earned my vote, but the reality of the matter is that the only thing that it would've done is given the Tories an even bigger majority, thus giving May more of a mandate for her "Hard Brexit" fetish. Maybe I was slightly hopeful that Labour (if not Corbyn) would be more Brexit-lite than the Tories, but there were also many other personal issues/reasons for not wanting the Tories in power, regardless of their approach to Brexit. You're either being incredibly naive (which I highly doubt), or (more likely) you're enjoying your favourite role as Foxes-Talk Brexit Spin Doctor , and horribly misrepresenting the situation to imply that people didn't care about Brexit because they didn't vote for the Lib Dems. It's the same as saying "42% of the population voted to hunt foxes". Voting for a party doesn't mean that you endorse all of their views. ...It also speaks volumes about our current voting system that I feel disinclined to vote for my party of choice, but what can you do. What electoral system would the Lib Dem’s be able to win under then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 52 minutes ago, Strokes said: What electoral system would the Lib Dem’s be able to win under then? None where they might win, but there are electoral systems where my vote would count towards something, and thus make it worth voting Lib Dem, rather than it being wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 23 minutes ago, Charl91 said: None where they might win, but there are electoral systems where my vote would count towards something, and thus make it worth voting Lib Dem, rather than it being wasted. Ah I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 4 hours ago, Donut said: Why didnt you just name them all at the beginning? How is the common fisheries policy damaging your life? How has immigration damaged your life? do you not have a job? there is no evidence of wage compression in any sector in the UK except for fruit picking apparently, are you a fruit picker? If the EU was totally responsible for all our immigration policy every EU countries policy would look exactly the same, so why is Belgiums policy more strict than ours? Do you feel your life is being damaged by the working time directive? your life is being damaged by a law that stops your boss making you work as many hours a week as they want? the working time directive gives you a choice anyway, you can opt out of it if you WANT to work more than 48 hours a week. Why would you want to take away a persons choice on that??? Instead of me answering your question, answer mine. How has being in the Common fishery policy benefited your life? How has it improved our country letting foreign boats catch our fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 24 February 2018 Share Posted 24 February 2018 4 hours ago, Charl91 said: The basis of most of your arguments seems to be "It must be like this, because that's how I feel it is". I can see why you voted for Brexit. Melanie Phillips gave you an example, I gave an example of university academics in this country who say it's like that. What evidence has been provided that it's not like that other than saying it's all propaganda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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