Fox Ulike Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 1 hour ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: Come on. It’s taken 8 months to get to this stage because May was pandering to the hard brexit section of the electorate and her own party. If this agreement was announced before the GE, we’d be looking at a Labour government now. The EU from the start laid out the 3 factors that needed sorting before the trade talks began. Originally David Davis said no way and then conceded shortly after. This is not a victory for the negotiating team, for Brexiteers nor Remainers. All this has done has wasted 8 months of time. What has been announced could have been announced straight away if May and co weren’t so bothered about saving face with numerous factions. The only thing anybody should be concerned with is where the talks go from here. My guess is wording will change but essentially everything will stay the same. Our close relationship with Europe will basically see us members in all but name, immigration checks will be in place but numbers will be no different and our trade with the rest of the world will be advertised as being fantastic but will make no difference to anybody. No cliff edge but no land of milk and honey. Hard Brexiteers will be crying about migrant workers and Remainers will be crying about having to sign an immigration form on a plane en route to sunny Spain. Whoevers in government will continue to serve their own interests and we’ll all be left wondering what the whole point was. This whole thing is absolutely bloody ridiculous. Exactly this. We’ve just spent a year and paid billions working out how to leave the Single Market And now we’re going to spend a year and pay billions working out how we can access the Single Market.
Webbo Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 Just now, Fox Ulike said: Exactly this. We’ve just spent a year and paid billions working out how to leave the Single Market And now we’re going to spend a year and pay billions working out how we can access the Single Market. We're going to be paying a lot less than if we stayed in,
Magictv Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: We're going to be paying a lot less than if we stayed in, I thought it was all about sovereignty not money?
Webbo Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 2 minutes ago, Magictv said: I thought it was all about sovereignty not money? I was answering a specific point Quote We’ve just spent a year and paid billions working out how to leave the Single Market And now we’re going to spend a year and pay billions working out how we can access the Single Market. So my point was correct, although I'm not sure how we've spent billions working out how to leave the single market.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 I'm more confused than ever. Have we crushed the saboteurs yet or not?
Guest Kopfkino Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Reports vary, the FT says we'll pay between €40bn and €60bn, most seem to put it around £40bn which would be a 25% discount. Not quite 'at least 40%', and it remains unconfirmed. Yep does help if you actually pay attention to what you're reading. Edited 8 December 2017 by Kopfkino idiot
Fox Ulike Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 18 minutes ago, Webbo said: We're going to be paying a lot less than if we stayed in, That money's all going to the NHS don't forget.
Webbo Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 Just now, Fox Ulike said: That money's all going to the NHS don't forget. It's a win win situation. 1
Rogstanley Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: I was going off Nick Robinson saying 35-39. Albeit still misleading to say at least 40% I will grant you. At least 35%. Still my favourite part of your post is, as one would expect, a Corbyn supporter confirming an inability to do basic Maths (Tongue in cheek). £40bn would still be 33% discount on Juncker's at least 60. I'd expect anyone negotiating any kind of transaction would be delighted by a 33% reduction. But of course, it's much better to just whinge about everything all the time. Might be your inability to recognise the difference between different currencies, of course. £40bn =/= €40bn. Edited 8 December 2017 by Rogstanley
Guest Kopfkino Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 Just now, Rogstanley said: Might be your inability to recognise the difference between different currencies, of course. £40bn =/= €40bn. That is quite true. I have been a moron.
Guest Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 The whole charade will begin again though. The EU have already set the UK up concessions. They've said that they have clear rules around single market access and having taken stock of the uks red lines have concluded that the available option is the Canadian model - ie limited free market access in some areas. We clearly want more than that so those red lines will soon be erased once again.
Fox Ulike Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 16 minutes ago, toddybad said: The whole charade will begin again though. The EU have already set the UK up concessions. They've said that they have clear rules around single market access and having taken stock of the uks red lines have concluded that the available option is the Canadian model - ie limited free market access in some areas. We clearly want more than that so those red lines will soon be erased once again. I’m not so sure. I think that there’s been a shift in Government approach since the election. The days of “Red white and blue Brexit” are over. Theresa May seems to be a much better PM now she’s not trying to be something she’s not. It just remains to be seen whether she can survive the damage done at the last election. Labour's swing to the Left, ironically, is probably the thing that confirms that May will survive. It’s been exasperating that so much time and goodwill has been wasted up to now pandering to the far right. But we do now seem to have a Government committed to working with the EU to get a deal that best suits both parties. I’d be surprised if they don’t continue with this collaborative approach – and as such should be willing to compromise when necessary. At the moment, I am confident that the worse thing about Brexit will end up being the utter pointlessness and waste of the whole thing. The impact on the country will be negative of course, but hopefully not disasterous. As ever it will be the rich who benefit and the poor who suffer. Which of course has been the plan all along. The majority of us in the middle will probably just plod along as normal.
Strokes Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 22 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: I’m not so sure. I think that there’s been a shift in Government approach since the election. The days of “Red white and blue Brexit” are over. Theresa May seems to be a much better PM now she’s not trying to be something she’s not. It just remains to be seen whether she can survive the damage done at the last election. Labour's swing to the Left, ironically, is probably the thing that confirms that May will survive. It’s been exasperating that so much time and goodwill has been wasted up to now pandering to the far right. But we do now seem to have a Government committed to working with the EU to get a deal that best suits both parties. I’d be surprised if they don’t continue with this collaborative approach – and as such should be willing to compromise when necessary. At the moment, I am confident that the worse thing about Brexit will end up being the utter pointlessness and waste of the whole thing. The impact on the country will be negative of course, but hopefully not disasterous. As ever it will be the rich who benefit and the poor who suffer. Which of course has been the plan all along. The majority of us in the middle will probably just plod along as normal.
Guest Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 11 minutes ago, Strokes said: You've spent weeks arguing for us to walk away without a deal, you're the last person to look smug about the outcome.
Strokes Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 12 minutes ago, toddybad said: You've spent weeks arguing for us to walk away without a deal, you're the last person to look smug about the outcome. Is that a smug face? I thought it was a showing disgust face. Ive been spending weeks? More like years but then why would you know that? I’m not smug, I’m not delighted and I’m still very sceptical about the details on this. Its funny you say I should be the last person smug though, I remember you saying leaving the single market would be absolute abomination and you would be distraught if we did. You updated this positions bit later though, after you realised you had endorsed it by voting for Labour and tried to slime your way out of it. So your ‘victory’ today, is only because you’ve changed your position as we’ve gone along, we can go back and drag up earlier posts if you like but there is little point as I’m sure you are used to embarrassing yourself on here.
Guest Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 33 minutes ago, Strokes said: Is that a smug face? I thought it was a showing disgust face. Ive been spending weeks? More like years but then why would you know that? I’m not smug, I’m not delighted and I’m still very sceptical about the details on this. Its funny you say I should be the last person smug though, I remember you saying leaving the single market would be absolute abomination and you would be distraught if we did. You updated this positions bit later though, after you realised you had endorsed it by voting for Labour and tried to slime your way out of it. So your ‘victory’ today, is only because you’ve changed your position as we’ve gone along, we can go back and drag up earlier posts if you like but there is little point as I’m sure you are used to embarrassing yourself on here. If you go back through my posts to the beginning you'll see my red line was always access to the single market. We're yet to find out whether I'll be happy or not.
Fox Ulike Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 11 minutes ago, toddybad said: If you go back through my posts to the beginning you'll see my red line was always access to the single market. We're yet to find out whether I'll be happy or not. I think we will have access. The only issue will be the cost. We’ll probably end up paying £350m a week - which will then be spun as a ‘hard won’ victory for Mrs May.
Izzy Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 11 minutes ago, toddybad said: We're yet to find out whether I'll be happy or not. 1
Strokes Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 27 minutes ago, toddybad said: If you go back through my posts to the beginning you'll see my red line was always access to the single market. We're yet to find out whether I'll be happy or not. Everybody has access to the single market, that was another dumb invented phrase that you parroted. 1
Guest Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 15 minutes ago, Strokes said: Everybody has access to the single market, that was another dumb invented phrase that you parroted. Jesus Christ you're boring. It was tariff free access as you know.
Strokes Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 Just now, toddybad said: Jesus Christ you're boring. It was tariff free access as you know.
BoyJones Posted 8 December 2017 Posted 8 December 2017 This thread should do be closed. 345 pages of hot air that has produced nothing beneficial. Just the usual suspects trying to be clever.
katieakita Posted 9 December 2017 Posted 9 December 2017 4 hours ago, BoyJones said: This thread should do be closed. 345 pages of hot air that has produced nothing beneficial. Just the usual suspects trying to be clever. Or proving they are not problem is so many on here have their own political views they will not change. Also for many it seems they cannot accept that a good idea is a good idea whether it comes from the left, right or centre and that goes for politicians as well. 1
Nick Posted 9 December 2017 Posted 9 December 2017 3 hours ago, katieakita said: Or proving they are not problem is so many on here have their own political views they will not change. Also for many it seems they cannot accept that a good idea is a good idea whether it comes from the left, right or centre and that goes for politicians as well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42281217
Webbo Posted 9 December 2017 Posted 9 December 2017 Hard and soft brexit are meaningless phrases as they have no official definition. They can mean anything that the person arguing says they mean to suit their argument. None of us will get exactly what we want from the deal. All negotiations are compromises, the govt has to appease as many people as possible. We won't know what this agreement is or how successful it'll be for years yet.
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