Strokes Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Not for you, I take good care of my friends instead of demanding they be strung up for their mistakes. Try telling that to the young people who don't have degrees and are being told it's the reason employers won't give them a chance. You didn't seem so forgiving of your associates that voted leave in the referendum iirc, I think you called them all racists.
Webbo Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 1 minute ago, toddybad said: Jesus Christ the Tories really are taking us in the abyss. The difference is Webbo, I'm arguing for things that will enrich people's lives. You are arguing for the removal of the state and an everybody for themselves society. Apart from 13 years free schooling, NHS care, the use of infrastructure, plus lots more.
Carl the Llama Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: I think there are plenty of jobs in between. True, if you know where to look you can find work that pays slightly above min. wage without a degree. Just now, Strokes said: You didn't seem so forgiving of your associates that voted leave in the referendum iirc, I think you called them all racists. Yep, every last one of them may as well have gone to the booth in black face.
Guest Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Apart from 13 years free schooling, NHS care, the use of infrastructure, plus lots more. So how much should we add on in tax for those that failed to be expelled from the school system?
Webbo Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, toddybad said: So how much should we add on in tax for those that failed to be expelled from the school system? You're going to have to re phrase that, I don't understand the question.
Webbo Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: True, if you know where to look you can find work that pays slightly above min. wage without a degree. You can learn a trade, start as an office junior and work your way up, do on the job training, go to night school and learn a skill. There is a massive range of income levels.
ousefox Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, toddybad said: But as things stand we're writing off huge chunks of debt so the government is effectively funding universities already. There needs to be a huge rethink of the whole thing. Whether its the system I have pointed to or not, we cannot continue with what we have. A 9% tax on earnings over 21% is WAY too much. It is completely unreasonable to object to 5% on over £80k but accept 9% on over £21k. this was something that amused me hugely on here when the election was in full swing. One of my many gripes about the current system is that the rich can pay their £27k straight off and others could end up paying at least double that because they didn't have mummy and daddy paying for it and did well from their degree. Anyway, I made it clear that this seemed very unfair and was told if I was earning enough to be paying that much back in student fees I'd be rich enough not for it not to make any difference. This was from exactly the same people who started moaning on here as soon the 5% tax on earnings over £80k started being discussed and how £80k wasn't a lot of money. Funny how things are so different when it affects them. Edited 11 July 2017 by Watson
Guest Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: You're going to have to re phrase that, I don't understand the question. The natural end point of the student loan debate is that people should pay for all public services which they use. Why should somebody with no kids pay for your kids to go to school, after all. It all makes sense now. I propose 3% on all earnings over £15k if you've gone beyond GCSEs (and all kids do now), A-Levels will be an extra 1%, other forms of FE 0.5%. If you've used maternity services then that's 4% per child. Broken bones 0.5% per bone. If you can't get a private dentist then you can have NHS funding for 0.75%. If you take out a book from a library (if you can find one) then it's 0.05% per book. Overdue returns are 0.001% per day on all future earnings. After all, I've bought my own books. I'm not so sure how to deal with parks - should we charge a higher % if somebody's kids use the swings rather than them just walking a dog? I love this, I might get away without paying tax at this rate!
Innovindil Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 15 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Not for you, I take good care of my friends instead of demanding they be strung up for their mistakes. Try telling that to the young people who don't have degrees and are being told it's the reason employers won't give them a chance. Ah better to support his failure instead of trying to get him to self improve. Think I'll pass.
Carl the Llama Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: You can learn a trade, start as an office junior and work your way up, do on the job training, go to night school and learn a skill. There is a massive range of income levels. If you're lucky enough to land one of the few employers willing to actually provide proper on the job training. One of the biggest issues with the current jobs market is that employers in the UK have been treating undeveloped assets like the plague. It's one of very few areas that will actually benefit from us removing EU freedom of movement and forcing companies' hands (it's just a shame we got to the point where such drastic measures are remotely beneficial). Just now, Innovindil said: Ah better to support his failure instead of trying to get him to self improve. Think I'll pass. I'm not sure how you think telling him it's his own problem and saying "look how well I'm doing" does that but whatever. I'm beginning to suspect this guy isn't even your friend. 1
Captain... Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 47 minutes ago, davieG said: DeMontfort Uni seems to have plenty of cash to splash on vanity projects, fancy buildings, taking over roads etc where does that all come from? Universities make a lot of money through research, De Montfort will be no exception and I believe it is nowhere near as shit as it used to be, in fact some of these old polys are outperforming traditional unis. 58 minutes ago, KingGTF said: I mean if it was up to me, the state would be removed from higher education and the student would have a direct contract with the university whereby they agree to pay a % of their future earnings to the university. So the university has equity in the premium the graduate will make, giving the university incentive to produce high earning graduates. A university has an economic interest in their students and compete to offer the best students to the marketplace. I wouldn't remove the state completely, but I have thought similar before, when an offer is made it comes with a condition of grades sets a level of fees/pay back based on the applicant achieving those grades and then how well they do. For example if you get a first you pay back less than someone with a Desmond. Then research, phds and working for the university can also go towards reducing that payback. I would still have the state involved, particularly to regulate the universities, to be honest I think that should be happening now and I would welcome an overhaul of the whole grading system. How can you compare a student from De Mont to a student from Nottingham university when the courses are so different and the grading subjective to the university. I would view a 2:2 from Nottingham as better than a first from De Mont. I don't know if that is still the case, but in my day that would be true.
Guest Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Carl the Llama said: I'm not sure how you think telling him it's his own problem and saying "look how well I'm doing" does that but whatever. I'm beginning to suspect this guy isn't even your friend. I'm beginning to suspect he doesn't exist - can you imagine anybody calling Innov their friend based on today's conversation?
Webbo Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: The natural end point of the student loan debate is that people should pay for all public services which they use. Why should somebody with no kids pay for your kids to go to school, after all. It all makes sense now. I propose 3% on all earnings over £15k if you've gone beyond GCSEs (and all kids do now), A-Levels will be an extra 1%, other forms of FE 0.5%. If you've used maternity services then that's 4% per child. Broken bones 0.5% per bone. If you can't get a private dentist then you can have NHS funding for 0.75%. If you take out a book from a library (if you can find one) then it's 0.05% per book. Overdue returns are 0.001% per day on all future earnings. After all, I've bought my own books. I'm not so sure how to deal with parks - should we charge a higher % if somebody's kids use the swings rather than them just walking a dog? I love this, I might get away without paying tax at this rate! Actually, I think your first post made more sense. 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: If you're lucky enough to land one of the few employers willing to actually provide proper on the job training. One of the biggest issues with the current jobs market is that employers in the UK have been treating undeveloped assets like the plague. It's one of very few areas that will actually benefit from us removing EU freedom of movement and forcing companies' hands (it's just a shame we got to the point where such drastic measures are remotely beneficial). I knew you'd get there in the end.
Carl the Llama Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Webbo said: I knew you'd get there in the end. Yep this country's been fvcking it's own then blaming it on the EU for a long time. The only positive is that now they won't have that excuse.
Strokes Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: If you're lucky enough to land one of the few employers willing to actually provide proper on the job training. One of the biggest issues with the current jobs market is that employers in the UK have been treating undeveloped assets like the plague. It's one of very few areas that will actually benefit from us removing EU freedom of movement and forcing companies' hands (it's just a shame we got to the point where such drastic measures are remotely beneficial). Exactly this, If we are to more than survive outside of the European Union we have to invest in education and force businesses to do so as well. One of the major reasons I voted to leave was because of this toxic culture of cherry picking developed talent and not developing from within. 1
Strokes Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: Yep this country's been fvcking it's own then blaming it on the EU for a long time. The only positive is that now they won't have that excuse. I actually agree that it's not a direct consequence of the EU but unfortunately as a voter it seems the only way to arrest the decline.
Captain... Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, katieakita said: http://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-eus-exit-bill-demand-extortionate-10944564 Send for Rudkin It's a good job the Thick of it has finished, how on earth do you satirise this absolute shower. People would be switching off in their droves to watch the Parliament channel. Edited 11 July 2017 by Captain... 1
Innovindil Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: If you're lucky enough to land one of the few employers willing to actually provide proper on the job training. One of the biggest issues with the current jobs market is that employers in the UK have been treating undeveloped assets like the plague. It's one of very few areas that will actually benefit from us removing EU freedom of movement and forcing companies' hands (it's just a shame we got to the point where such drastic measures are remotely beneficial). I'm not sure how you think telling him it's his own problem and saying "look how well I'm doing" does that but whatever. I'm beginning to suspect this guy isn't even your friend. Because telling him that somebody else will get him out of a part time job and into something better would be a lie. Giving him the option (and it is, even now, a viable option) of following in my footsteps could lead to him having a better life. Sometimes a cuddle and a cry is what you need, but that won't help him now. What he needs is a bastard, and as his friend I am glad to be it.
Carl the Llama Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Innovindil said: Because telling him that somebody else will get him out of a part time job and into something better would be a lie. Giving him the option (and it is, even now, a viable option) of following in my footsteps could lead to him having a better life. Sometimes a cuddle and a cry is what you need, but that won't help him now. What he needs is a bastard, and as his friend I am glad to be it. So you think he should start Uni all over again? Just send him @Webbo's way, he knows where all the well-paying jobs for guys like him are. Actually that's a point, wanna hook me up too, Webs?
Guest Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Britain’s economy will lose momentum both this year and next as the squeeze on living standards caused by higher inflation outweighs the benefits of the cheaper pound on exports, one of the world’s leading rating agencies has predicted. Standard & Poor’s said that after holding up much better than predicted in the period immediately after the June 2016 EU referendum, the UK’s growth rate would slow from 1.8% in 2016 to 1.4% in 2017 and 0.8% in 2018. The rating agency warned that the outlook for the economy might be even worse than it was predicting if the Brexit talks between Britain and the EU went badly. Despite speculation of an increase in interest rates from the Bank of England next month, S&P said the weakness of the economy would result in borrowing costs being left on hold at 0.25% for another two years. The agency’s senior economist, Boris Glass, said: “Given demand weakness, the temporary nature of imported inflation, moderate domestic wage pressures, and Brexit uncertainties, we expect the Bank of England’s current ultra-accommodative stance to continue over the medium term and expect a first rate hike to occur only in mid-2019.” S&P said the better-than-predicted performance of the economy in 2016 had been the result of “extraordinarily robust consumer spending” but added that the pressure on households from prices rising more rapidly than wages was likely to persist for the rest of 2017 and into 2018. The depreciation of the pound would make UK exports more competitive but would only add between 0.2 and 0.3 percentage points to growth from 2017 to 2020. “Our forecasts for slower growth are subject to considerable downside risks, stemming mainly from Brexit uncertainties,” Glass said. “For example, the staging of the negotiations, with the ‘divorce’ settlement being negotiated before any future relationship with the EU is addressed, means that should the separation negotiations stall, there would be less time left for negotiating the future trade relationship, risking a cliff edge. “In general, should negotiations stall for an extended period, this could translate into a further significant depreciation of sterling and a consequent rise in inflation.” Ben Broadbent, one of the Bank of England’s deputy governors, said a sharp drop in UK trade with the EU after Brexit would be bad for the economy. In a speech in Aberdeen that focused on the benefits of international trade, Broadbent said: “Put simply, a significant curtailment of trade with Europe would force the UK to shift away from producing things it’s been relatively good at, and therefore export to the EU, and towards the things it currently imports and is relatively less good at.”
Innovindil Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Carl the Llama said: So you think he should start Uni all over again? Just send him @Webbo's way, he knows where all the well-paying jobs for guys like him are. Actually that's a point, wanna hook me up too, Webs? No, I wouldn't send him to uni, I'd send him to the engineering firm I currently work at that is now taking on apprentices.
Carl the Llama Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Innovindil said: No, I wouldn't send him to uni, I'd send him to the engineering firm I currently work at that is now taking on apprentices. Well I'll be that is actually pretty decent of you, why did you feel the need to spend the past couple of hours denigrating him and saying he deserves the supermarket work he's currently doing? I hope you make good on that promise for his sake.
Darkon84 Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, davieG said: I didn't intend to start a debate was just an observation and a simple question. I understand re the environmental issues, perhaps I shouldn't have included buildings but it does seem rather like empire building with all the older buildings they've taken over, again I'm all for retaining these. Rather the point I was making was they seem to be awash with money that is not being directly spent on courses so my question was where is this money coming if not from the students? Yea sorry Davie, I wasn't insinuating you you were starting a debate, I merely added that on the end as I don't really have time for getting in to one (with whoever may have replied etc). That's a valid point and I can see where the questions are coming from. Unfortunately, I don't know 100% where the money would have come from, and it is quite a sum of money, but I can only assume savings have been accumulating in the anticipation of a new building, government grants and also investments in to the building which will be more than paid back because of the efficiency of the building etc. universities also recieve huge amounts of money from donations, businesses etc. EDIT: 2 quick articles outlining some of the money spent and earned by Universities. http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/blog/Pages/what-do-universities-spend-their-money-on.aspx https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/03/tuition-fees-england-universities-surplus-balance Edited 11 July 2017 by Darkon84
Guest Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 1 minute ago, Innovindil said: No, I wouldn't send him to uni, I'd send him to the engineering firm I currently work at that is now taking on apprentices. My one possible regret I have is that I did A-levels and uni rather than take up the offer of an apprenticeship (or something similar - part engineering course and half on the job learning) as a CAD designer when I was 16. I'd have been a whole lot better off and no student loan.
Innovindil Posted 11 July 2017 Posted 11 July 2017 Just now, Carl the Llama said: Well I'll be that is actually pretty decent of you, why did you feel the need to spend the past couple of hours denigrating him and saying he deserves the supermarket work he's currently doing? I hope you make good on that promise for his sake. Because he doesn't want to do it.
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