Technology, Science and the Environment.

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

If that's what it was doing 12 billion years ago, what's it doing now?

Sadly, we'll never know, as it is beyond our line of sight temporally.

[CheeseHead]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Sadly, we'll never know, as it is beyond our line of sight temporally.

Surely we cannot know what it is doing right now until another 12 billion years has elapsed?

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, CheeseHead said:

Surely we cannot know what it is doing right now until another 12 billion years has elapsed?

That's right, so it's never possible to witness events in space more than a few "light seconds" away in real time, as it were. The distances bugger everything up to the point time just becomes another linear dimension with its own horizon.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68388695

 

The Odysseus Moon lander is likely lying on its side with its head resting against a rock.

The US spacecraft, which made history on Thursday by becoming the first ever privately built and operated robot to complete a soft lunar touchdown, is otherwise in good condition.

Its owner, Texan firm Intuitive Machines, says Odysseus has plenty of power and is communicating with Earth.

Controllers are trying to retrieve pictures from the robot.

Steve Altemus, the CEO and co-founder of IM, said it wasn't totally clear what had happened but the data suggested the robot caught a foot on the surface and then fell because it still had some lateral motion at the moment of landing.

 

Looks like 3am after a night out at the pub moments happen to us all - even Moon landers.

[Daggers]

[dsr-burnley]

3 hours ago, Daggers said:

This sort of sensationalism damages the cause. If you try and persuade people of the dangers of global warming by posting evidence that Death Valley is nearly as hot as in 1913, they won't think anything of it, and it will give them reason to disregard any more sensible climate based statistics. 

[The Bear]

28 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

This sort of sensationalism damages the cause. If you try and persuade people of the dangers of global warming by posting evidence that Death Valley is nearly as hot as in 1913, they won't think anything of it, and it will give them reason to disregard any more sensible climate based statistics. 

Who mentioned 1913?

 

Its an amusing comparison as they're posing next to something that can kill them. 

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, The Bear said:

Who mentioned 1913?

 

Its an amusing comparison as they're posing next to something that can kill them. 

 

9 hours ago, Daggers said:

I can confirm that is hotter than when I was there in 2003.  We are all going to die*.

 

 

 

*eventually and of something.

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

This sort of sensationalism damages the cause. If you try and persuade people of the dangers of global warming by posting evidence that Death Valley is nearly as hot as in 1913, they won't think anything of it, and it will give them reason to disregard any more sensible climate based statistics. 

If an obviously silly one shot picture, or even many, is enough reason for people to disregard the very serious and very real evidence we have regarding climate change and its consequences, then that's on them.

 

The Earth isn't going to sit around and suffer such a lack of critical thinking, and should the shit hit the fan, I'm pretty sure those who are left would hold everyone who didn't do what they could responsible - whether they were actively malicious or, as per above, too lacking in critical thought.

[Daggers]

8 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

This sort of sensationalism damages the cause. If you try and persuade people of the dangers of global warming by posting evidence that Death Valley is nearly as hot as in 1913, they won't think anything of it, and it will give them reason to disregard any more sensible climate based statistics. 

It’s called humour, try it out sometime.

[leicsmac]

https://phys.org/news/2024-02-russia-space-weapon-anti-satellite.html

 

In a week where national security has taken center stage in Washington, the White House confirmed on Thursday that it had evidence that Russia was developing a space-based nuclear anti satellite weapon.

John Kirby, the National Security Council spokesperson, informed reporters that the White House believe Russia's program to be "troubling," despite "no immediate threat to anyone's safety."

The problem is that, depending on what type of weapon this is, the consequences of using it could be indiscriminate—threatening everyone's satellites and causing a breakdown of the vital services that come from space infrastructure.

 

....At a press conference on the death of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, Joe Biden stated that there was "no nuclear threat to the people of America or anywhere else in the world with what Russia is doing at the moment."

The president added that there was "no evidence that they have made a decision to go forward with doing anything in space either." If Moscow did decide to go ahead with the program it would be contrary to the Outer Space Treaty which 130 countries have signed onto, including Russia.

 

The treaty prohibits "nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction" in orbit or stationing weapons in outer space "in any other manner." Anti-satellite weapons are nothing new. China launched a weapon to destroy a non-operational weather satellite in January 2007.

 

While the temptation to launch a nuclear strike in space may seem alluring to nations looking to challenge US dominance in the domain, such actions come at huge risk. It is not necessarily the destruction of objects in space from Earth that should be the primary concern when it comes to anti-satellite weapons more generally, but the effect they have in space.

 

Space-based weaponry is like biological weaponry - as potentially dangerous to the user as it is to those they attack, and everyone involved is aware of this. There's not a lot of point for such a weapons system at the present time when it has such obvious drawbacks for little benefit.

[dsr-burnley]

9 hours ago, The Bear said:

Who mentioned 1913?

 

Its an amusing comparison as they're posing next to something that can kill them. 

I'm not saying it isn't amusing.  But the point of 1913 is that the record temperature for Death Valley (where that photo was taken) is 57 degrees, in 1913.  And if you tell people who are inclined to disbelieve in global warning that the high temperatures now are lower than they were 100 years ago, it will be something that they will hang their hat on for years.

 

Similar thing in the Chicago Science Museum, where they really ought to know better.  They have a climate change film that starts out with a presumed expert saying that he went to look at a glacier in Spring and he went again 6 months later and was amazed by how much it had retreated and it convinced him how serious climate change was  When you start a film with a sentence saying, in effect, that summer is warmer than winter, you can't expect people to take you seriously for the rest of the film.

[BertFill]

9 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Similar thing in the Chicago Science Museum, where they really ought to know better.  They have a climate change film that starts out with a presumed expert saying that he went to look at a glacier in Spring and he went again 6 months later and was amazed by how much it had retreated and it convinced him how serious climate change was  When you start a film with a sentence saying, in effect, that summer is warmer than winter, you can't expect people to take you seriously for the rest of the film.

I'm not a glacier expert, but I don't think that glaciers typically retreat during the summer and return in the winter. They're enormously thick rivers of ice - I don't think that amount of ice just comes and goes seasonally; a glacier isn't like snow on a mountain in England...

 

As I say though, I'm not an expert and may be wrong.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, BertFill said:

I'm not a glacier expert, but I don't think that glaciers typically retreat during the summer and return in the winter. They're enormously thick rivers of ice - I don't think that amount of ice just comes and goes seasonally; a glacier isn't like snow on a mountain in England...

 

As I say though, I'm not an expert and may be wrong.

They do exactly that.

 

But let's not let something like that get in the way of obfuscation in the name of ignorance regarding the future of our civilisation.

[SpacedX]

19 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

This sort of sensationalism damages the cause. If you try and persuade people of the dangers of global warming by posting evidence that Death Valley is nearly as hot as in 1913, they won't think anything of it, and it will give them reason to disregard any more sensible climate based statistics. 

You have posted this before and I explained the significance then - not sure why it is necessary to go through this again. 130°F is exceptionally rare on Earth. The point is, heat records are being shattered all across America and throughout the world. The 1913 record in Death Valley - 111 years ago, which incidentally has actually been disputed by and is a source of contention for many meteorologists, was an isolated anomaly. The recent high recorded in 2023 was part of a sustained trend of summers in which temperatures in the region have been driving up and nudging 130°F. I have lived and worked in California and visited and stayed in Furnace Creek on many occasions and am familiar with the geography as much as I am the rapidity of changes afflicting the state. In DV, Hot desert air sinks and warms further as it descends - and the location of Furnace Creek is 190 feet below sea level - that extra elevation plunge adds extra heat. The valley is flanked by mountains on all four sides, which also heat up in the desert sun trap hot air and circulates it like a convection oven. On a typical day, when the valley floor heats up, instead of mixing with cooler air from above, it mixes with hotter air just above it. In this way, heat can become trapped in the valley.

 

Death Valley hit 129 degrees six different days after 1913, five of which were this century 2023, 2021, 2013, 2007, 2005, 1998. As the climate changes, as world temperatures get hotter, Death Valley will get hotter, the summers longer and the winters shorter. It is noteworthy that seven of Death Valley’s hottest summers on record occurred in the past 10 years. The hot days are also getting more frequent and the nighttime records are being broken too. In 2023 116°F was recorded at 10.00pm at night ffs! The year 2020 holds the park’s record for the most days over 100 degrees...169 days according to data from the US National Weather Service. The year 2021 broke the record for the most days over 125 degrees.

 

Anthropogenic climate change is driving up air temperatures and temperature regimes globally which will spell disaster in terms of habitation and agriculture in the most vulnerable areas across the planet. Regions such as Death Valley - although granted, a unique example geographically, are nonetheless obviously going to be more prone to these phenomenal temperatures which then capture the news headlines. Telescope Peak which I have climbed and is the highest point in the park is home to its population of ancient bristlecone pine trees. The trees’ mortality rate has increased about 70% in the last decade due to severe drought and bark beetle infestations, These are some of the oldest trees on the planet, and previously believed to be very hardy and resistant. A study released in 2022 found that thousands of the trees have been killed at Telescope Peak since 2013, including some as old as 1,612 years. Their deaths indicate that even older bristlecone pines in the White Mountains, Panamint range, Great Basin National Park and elsewhere could be at risk, the study indicates.

 

Yes the park has always been a place of extremes. But it also shows that no place is immune to human-caused climate change, which is driving up global temperatures, warming oceans and shrinking ice sheets. I'm not sure why you are still unable to comprehend the significance of last year's headline grabbing temperature in Furnace Creek.

 

I actually wasn't sure whether what you put about the glacier was an attempt at black humour/satire...but it seems that you were serious. 

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, SpacedX said:

Yes the park has always been a place of extremes. But it also shows that no place is immune to human-caused climate change, which is driving up global temperatures, warming oceans and shrinking ice sheets. I'm not sure why you are still unable to comprehend the significance of last year's headline grabbing temperature in Furnace Creek.

 

I actually wasn't sure whether what you put about the glacier was an attempt at black humour/satire...but it seems that you were serious. 

I can perfectly well comprehend the various significances of the headline, and one of those significances is that people will use it to decry and deny global warming.  I'm just saying it's poor tactics.  I wasn't commenting at all about the issue, just the tactics.

 

As for the glacier thing, I don't quite see the point.  Are you saying that glaciers don't retreat in summer and advance in winter?  Don't assume I know everything, and if I'm wrong you could educate rather than put down.

[SpacedX]

6 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

I can perfectly well comprehend the various significances of the headline, and one of those significances is that people will use it to decry and deny global warming.  I'm just saying it's poor tactics.  I wasn't commenting at all about the issue, just the tactics.

 

As for the glacier thing, I don't quite see the point.  Are you saying that glaciers don't retreat in summer and advance in winter?  Don't assume I know everything, and if I'm wrong you could educate rather than put down.

I'm not putting you down and apologies if it came across that way. However, you concede that you "don't know everything", which is fair enough - none of us do - but why comment in the way that you did on a topic that you are not knowledgeable about? Seriously, read your post. It's nothing more than arguments from ignorance and a product of your own personal incredulity. To answer your question, which is perfectly reasonable, actually some glaciers in parts of the world do have particularly fast response times. In parts of Scandinavia and Iceland they do have annual moraines, albeit small, which form each year as the glacier recedes in the summer and the terminus position stabilises in the winter. However, this is not the case for most glaciers on the planet, as the response time of the glacier is typically longer than a single year. Where I was critical of you and where I objected is the example that you gave of the 'Chicago Science Museum' - I'd suggest that it's very likely the case they do indeed "know better" than you, a bloke on a provincial football forum, in the example that they chose. 

 

Regarding Death Valley, it really isn't poor tactics at all. As explained, it is a sparsely populated region of extremes anyway, but the recent observable trends this century are hugely significant and a strong indication of the rapidity of climate change. There is also a diverse ecosystem and are complex feedback loops that have adapted to the harsh environment but are sensitive to and hugely under threat by the turmoil wrought by climate change. These effects are just as significant as they are across many parts of the planet so it makes a very apposite case study. As also explained, the temperature record at Furnace Creek from 111 years ago was an isolated anomaly and not associated with such a pronounced trend or accompanied by other phenomena. It is also disputed by many meteorologists. The 2023 reading last July would most likely have matched or exceeded it were it not for a thin veil of cirrostratus that formed that afternoon.

[leicsmac]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2419671-uk-spurns-european-invitation-to-join-iter-nuclear-fusion-project/

 

Since Brexit, the UK no longer has access to ITER, the world's largest nuclear fusion experiment, through the European Union. After an invitation to rejoin this week, the UK government has confirmed it prefers to go it alone.

 

What parochial idiocy.

[SpacedX]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2419671-uk-spurns-european-invitation-to-join-iter-nuclear-fusion-project/

 

Since Brexit, the UK no longer has access to ITER, the world's largest nuclear fusion experiment, through the European Union. After an invitation to rejoin this week, the UK government has confirmed it prefers to go it alone.

 

What parochial idiocy.

That summarises what I thought, that although the UK has rejoined Horizon Europe, we opted not to participate in Euratom. And now in spite of an invitation to participate in ITER, the government has declined. Absolute myopic lunacy. 

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, SpacedX said:

That summarises what I thought, that although the UK has rejoined Horizon Europe, we opted not to participate in Euratom. And now in spite of an invitation to participate in ITER, the government has declined. Absolute myopic lunacy. 

It's deeply frustrating. Another area where the future of human civilisation is subject to idiot nationalistic willy waving.

[Zear0]

Here's hoping for the nod. 

 

 

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

Here's hoping for the nod. 

 

 

Thanks, was just about to look up when this was scheduled for. 

[samlcfc]

An interesting theory that paints a weird old picture in the mind.

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a46872441/baby-universe/

[The Bear]

Personally I think dark energy is just microscopic inflation as new space-time emerges on the boundaries of the expanding universe. If it's an inherent and emergent property that new space inflates, then that would explain both the early and current inflation. Early one inflated vastly because of the amount of space packed into the tiny baby universe, and when that is smeared out over the edges of this huge universe it's just fast enough to accelerate the expansion. 

 

All pie in the sky but there you go. I think once we get a proper quantised gravitational theory then inflation/dark energy will pop out of the equations as a quantized inflational field that interacts with space, much like relativity and space-time did for Einstein, and the Higgs field did for Peter Higgs. 

 

Edited 9 March by The Bear

[leicsmac]

Interesting - if rather disconcerting - feature on the BBC programme Click regarding deepfakes.

 

The tech is moving much faster than our moral application of it and it is being gleefully seized upon by horrible powermongers to control and gain more power for themselves. Not sure what the solution is, either.