Col city fan Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 32 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: The kind of thinking that allows people to balance AntiFa with Nazism, is the same sort of thinking that called Fascism 'National Socialism'. It's about sanitising something deeply poisonous and beneath contempt. I think that sentence is spot on: ''it's about santitising something deeply poisonous and beneath contempt" It's all hugely psycho-social. Youre right, of course. 'National Socialism' was sold on the back of economic ruin, scapegoating, propaganda, and actually very very strong leadership....until the final years. It was underpinned by fear, expectation, power, elitism and the opportunity to actually create something in the first place (eg. A lack of any alternative dominant power in Germany at that time). Typically, all these ingredients must come together in the right place, and at the right time for a regime to take over and to take control. This happened in post world war 1 Germany. Apparently, when the Allies and the Red Army uncovered the concentration camps, the local populace was both 'shocked' and 'appalled' by what they saw. I've always thought this was most likely bollox. They knew. They just didn't have the power (or the will) to stop it. Amazingly, all those ingredients led to this: just look at the numbers of people at Neuremburg It was essentially this mindset that led finally to the extermination of an estimated 6m Jews across Europe. God knows, it must never ever happen again in any way, shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 This has to be one of the most interesting off-topic topics I've seen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 1 hour ago, Vacamion said: Without defending hateful views, it is possible to acknowledge that attitudes change and that some older people have more work to do than others to change with the times. If you watch TV from the 70s and 80s, you are often shocked at what passed for acceptable and popular attitudes to hold. I've noticed that even "Friends" from the 1990s has content about implied homosexuality which would never make it onto the screen now. Just watch the men in that series treat the thought of being gay as a terrible thing, prompting "Eww" reactions and requiring overt denial and assertion of heterosexual traits. And that was within the living memory of many of you. I'm a bloke in my forties who went to an all boys school and played a lot of rugby. I'm quite sure I'm typical, in that I did and said stuff back in the day which now makes me ashamed. All the name calling, "eh up lads, backs to the wall" type stuff which was par for the course in those days and probably the basis of the awful taunts which prompted the original thread. The good news is, we've made progress. Society has moved on. Well, most of it, thankfully. Whilst we have to defend the progress which has been made, I think we need to understand that not everyone was keeping up. Sure, let's argue with people expressing outdated views, but I think we should show understanding with older people that those views might not always come from a hateful place, just a misinformed one. Always been my stance with my Grandad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Just now, Dan LCFC said: Always been my stance with my Grandad Mine to and fair enough... but if he was standing on a soapbox in Hyde Park shouting it out... would you perhaps stop him and take him away from the public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichfox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 14 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: This has to be one of the most interesting off-topic topics I've seen here. But what has it got to do with football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Just now, norwichfox said: But what has it got to do with football? I agree, hence my point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 2 minutes ago, norwichfox said: But what has it got to do with football? Thracian is some youth scout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filberts lovechild Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 36 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: The kind of thinking that allows people to balance AntiFa with Nazism, is the same sort of thinking that called Fascism 'National Socialism'. It's about sanitising something deeply poisonous and beneath contempt. I think most see Nazism as irrelevant. When u see a strong reaction like antifa I certainly wouldn't want my children mixing with either groups. They both promote violence against others who oppose their views, in my mind anyone that does this is a massive bell ? Please don't try to rationalise violent extreme behaviour. I think we have learnt from Nazism, let's not have more extremism in this bl00dy world eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGuy Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 3 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said: I think most see Nazism as irrelevant. When u see a strong reaction like antifa I certainly wouldn't want my children mixing with either groups. They both promote violence against others who oppose their views, in my mind anyone that does this is a massive bell ? Please don't try to rationalise violent extreme behaviour. I think we have learnt from Nazism, let's not have more extremism in this bl00dy world eh You'e still missing the point and no not every AntiFA group promotes violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filberts lovechild Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 42 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: The kind of thinking that allows people to balance AntiFa with Nazism, is the same sort of thinking that called Fascism 'National Socialism'. It's about sanitising something deeply poisonous and beneath contempt. Stalin killed more than Hitler. I most certainly think the 2 should be balanced. Ideology, religion, elitism, cause of all wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueBrett Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 at all the FT inner circle conspiracy theorists out there. It's an internet football forum not the bloody skull and bones club Also for what it's worth I don't think Thracian should have been banned. He's just as entitled to his opinion as anyone else - even if it is kind of warped. Seems strange people would simultaneously advocate banning him and leaving the thread open...what so you can all go in there and slag him off to make yourselves feel morally superior and further along the path to enlightenment while he can't defend/explain himself? Censorship and a few free hits? I mean if that's what floats your boat boys...personally I've seen more than enough evidence of the liberal paradox to last a lifetime but guess that's my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 4 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said: I think most see Nazism as irrelevant. When u see a strong reaction like antifa I certainly wouldn't want my children mixing with either groups. They both promote violence against others who oppose their views, in my mind anyone that does this is a massive bell ? Please don't try to rationalise violent extreme behaviour. I think we have learnt from Nazism, let's not have more extremism in this bl00dy world eh Have you seen the EDL? Did you see what happened in the US last week? How do you propose fighting the rising tide of Neo Nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filberts lovechild Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 1 minute ago, ZeGuy said: You'e still missing the Point and no not every AntiFA group promotes violence. Not every homophobe is a 'nazi', get the point? Just cos someone says something stupid doesn't mean it needs politicising & doesn't call for idiotic responses such as shouting 'nazi' at everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGuy Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Just now, Filberts lovechild said: Not every homophobe is a 'nazi', get the point? Just cos someone says something stupid doesn't mean it needs politicising & doesn't call for idiotic responses such as shouting 'nazi' at everything Strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichfox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Shouldn't this thread be in General? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filberts lovechild Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Just now, ozleicester said: Have you seen the EDL? Did you see what happened in the US last week? How do you propose fighting the rising tide of Neo Nazis? I'd include Islamic extremists in that category too. I don't condone 2 wrongs make a right and that decency in all cases must shine through. Fighting leads to war, was kinda hoping we could not do that anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Wow, I,(and many others) and being labelled 'extreme' by proxy. This is what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 54 minutes ago, ozleicester said: This is my point, you ACTUALLY think that those fighting Neo Nazi's are the same? When the Allies fought the Nazis were both sides equal? Ridiculous comparison. Don't ever compare a load of students and with their faces covered lobbing petrol bombs at the police to those young men who stormed the beaches at Omaha and Normandy, you wouldn't have seen any of this lot landing there, those people fought for free speech while defeating Nazis, they wouldn't go around shutting down anyone who disagrees with them like ANTIFA do or attacking anyone of a different political position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 9 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said: Stalin killed more than Hitler. Nobody will disagree with that. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 1 minute ago, MattP said: Ridiculous comparison. Don't ever compare a load of students and with their faces covered lobbing petrol bombs at the police to those young men who stormed the beaches at Omaha and Normandy, you wouldn't have seen any of this lot landing there, those people fought for free speech while defeating Nazis, they wouldn't go around shutting down anyone who disagrees with them like ANTIFA do or attacking anyone of a different political position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGuy Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Ridiculous comparison. Don't ever compare a load of students and with their faces covered lobbing petrol bombs at the police to those young men who stormed the beaches at Omaha and Normandy, you wouldn't have seen any of this lot landing there, those people fought for free speech while defeating Nazis, they wouldn't go around shutting down anyone who disagrees with them like ANTIFA do or attacking anyone of a different political position. So much ignorance in one sentence. The clichés are strong in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 Haha just saw that Thrac post. "an army of gays" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 12 minutes ago, BlueBrett said: at all the FT inner circle conspiracy theorists out there. And I will laugh at you for not even knowing what a conspiracy is. I don't think one of us has suggested conspiracy at any point in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueBrett Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said: And I will laugh at you for not even knowing what a conspiracy is. I don't think one of us has suggested conspiracy at any point in this thread. do you know what subtext is? I really can't be arsed to go back through this thread and the other to copy paste all the examples of people suggesting or implying a 'lesser poster' would have been banned but they're there if you have the time and inclination to go look for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 22 August 2017 Share Posted 22 August 2017 I don't think anyone could describe that post as not coming from a hateful place. Folksy, quaint, senile, "misunderstood" homophobia it weren't. It was a complete bile-filled non-sequitur to what had been up until then (although I found some of the other views outdated and disappointing) a reasonable and relevant debate on a serious subject related to our fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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