I imagine this may get deleted but.......

[ozleicester]

44 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said:

I really hate this 'everyone who disagrees with me or right of me is a Nazi' theme that is around these days, I genuinely think people need more education here, or whether it's just deliberately said to be offensive? I can't say I associate Nazism highly with persecution of gays, though don't get me wrong I'm sure they bloody well did. As probably did Commies under Stalin & what you see mostly today from extreme Islamist groups.

 

A lot of the time you have to take it for what it is & say it's an old point of view. I'm sure this kind of stuff was the large majority view of the Allies during WW2; you'd hardly call them 'Nazis' would you? Seriously if u want to stop 'hate', I'd stop using provocative terms yourself.

Nazis did persecute gays. Check history.

In the past i have been a fierce advocate of free speech. However. I have decided in light of recent events and activities i will no longer accept hate speech or actions that are designed to promote hate and hurt Without appropriate response.

 

Your comments are like our friend Trumps statement "there is fault on both sides". Nope! One side is arguing and fighting for equality and freedom...the other is using these freedoms to incite hate. 

NO MORE!

[ozleicester]

43 minutes ago, Podgeyrogers said:

Lets not start wishing for people to be banned for saying things that other's don't agree with. I have read his post, clearly his older mind has gotten confused between things but I wouldn't wish for him to be removed from further discussions.

If people are to be banned for having a viewpoint, whatever the perception is by other posters, then it becomes a forum for the Status Quo and that becomes dangerous.

If a person has a different view from you, learn to ignore it and  not demand bans. 

Entitlement and sensitivity are not good enough reason for another posters exclusion. That job is the work of a Moderator and they will deal with the issue/post as they see fit!

I dont want people banned because i disagree. They should be banned for homophic hate speech designed to hurt and incite hatred.

Being old or stupid does not excuse you 

[Nick]

Are people new here?

 

Is it news that @Thracian can not separate homosexuality from child abuse?

 

He's been writing cvnty things like this for years under the guise that he's just old and from a different generation - he's not. 

 

He just has abhorrent views.

[ZeGuy]

11 hours ago, the fox said:

Should've been moved to the general chat forum.

 

There was a big misunderstanding for what Thracian said, I think he got a bit confused but he should've gotten a proper chance to expand on what he was seeing because he came off for many as insensitive to that matter

 

People should be allowed to express themselves as long as they don't step over other people. Which many people here think he did, he should've not mixed homosexuality with kid rapists

 

He said the he doesn't care what people's orientations are, and he was even trying to talk about a very sensitive subject but it wasn't the right time nor place. He went out of subject.

 

 

 

He didn't look like he was confused at all to me. At all. His opinion on the matter was crystal clear. He purposefully mixed paedophiles with homosexuals.

[Filberts lovechild]

I'm saying there are groups historical & current that persecute gays, but you call him a Nazi. On the high likelihood that his grandparents likely fought or fought & died fighting the Nazis it's a very derogatory term & in doing so I feel you are trying to rile a response. Homophobia existed pre & post Nazism; I'm suggesting you are inciting hate yourself (kind of ironic).

[Bert]

26 minutes ago, Rob1742 said:

Understandable. But why were my posts about the need to sack Claudio always shut down?

 

As a fan I had a view, and that was echoed by the LCFC owners only a month or so later. Yet as soon as I posted my view on his demise they were blocked and I had a short term ban.

 

I can understand the current situation, but a non confrontentional post about our mananager who clearly was struggling, and I was allowed to post?

 

Maybe it was a Claudio love in by the mods. The mods had blinkers on. But really that was a case of them not wanting to see the truth and not wanting anyone to have that negative view about him.

 

I would like an answer.

I'm sure you would. 

 

But it I can only respond to things that are in my control, of which this isn't one. 

 

What at I would suggest is maybe not take this place too seriously. If posts have been removed it'll have been for a valid reason, not just willy nilly. 

[Max Power]

7 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Are people new here?

 

Is it news that @Thracian can not separate homosexuality from child abuse?

 

He's been writing cvnty things like this for years under the guise that he's just old and from a different generation - he's not. 

 

He just has abhorrent views.

People probably don't realise as they cba sifting through his giant, needlessly verbose posts. I know I don't read most of his pointless walls of text, glad I don't seeing as it appears he has some truly abhorrent views. 

[Vacamion]

 

Without defending hateful views, it is possible to acknowledge that attitudes change and that some older people have more work to do than others to change with the times.

 

If you watch TV from the 70s and 80s, you are often shocked at what passed for acceptable and popular attitudes to hold.

 

I've noticed that even "Friends" from the 1990s has content about implied homosexuality which would never make it onto the screen now.  Just watch the men in that series treat the thought of being gay as a terrible thing, prompting "Eww" reactions and requiring overt denial and assertion of heterosexual traits.

 

And that was within the living memory of many of you.

 

I'm a bloke in my forties who went to an all boys school and played a lot of rugby. I'm quite sure I'm typical, in that I did and said stuff back in the day which now makes me ashamed.  All the name calling, "eh up lads, backs to the wall" type stuff which was par for the course in those days and probably the basis of the awful taunts which prompted the original thread.

 

The good news is, we've made progress. Society has moved on. Well, most of it, thankfully.

 

Whilst we have to defend the progress which has been made, I think we need to understand that not everyone was keeping up.

 

Sure, let's argue with people expressing outdated views, but I think we should show understanding with older people that those views might not always come from a hateful place, just a misinformed one.

 

[RumbleFox]

Can I just reiterate that at no point have I asked for, nor do I want Thracian to be banned.  Moreover, in general I do this this is a very well run site and the moderators do, on the whole, do a great job.  I am, however, on this one occasion disappointed with the way this was handled but that is not a reflection on the moderators as a whole.  X

[ozleicester]

6 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said:

I'm saying there are groups historical & current that persecute gays, but you call him a Nazi. On the high likelihood that his grandparents likely fought or fought & died fighting the Nazis it's a very derogatory term & in doing so I feel you are trying to rile a response. Homophobia existed pre & post Nazism; I'm suggesting you are inciting hate yourself (kind of ironic).

Nope i am pointing out his actions are similar to that of the Nazis. And millions sat back and let those attitudes grow to a point that became nazi Germany,

 

I will not sit quietly by and allow lies and hate speech to continue unchallenged because nazi germany is what  happens.

 

Again you confuse fighting for equality with a right to free speech. Trump confused this also.One side is fighting for good the other is anti equality and incites hate. 

Freedom of speech does not give yiu the right to say ANYTHING you want.

[Filberts lovechild]

3 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

Without defending hateful views, it is possible to acknowledge that attitudes change and that some older people have more work to do than others to change with the times.

 

If you watch TV from the 70s and 80s, you are often shocked at what passed for acceptable and popular attitudes to hold.

 

I've noticed that even "Friends" from the 1990s has content about implied homosexuality which would never make it onto the screen now.  Just watch the men in that series treat the thought of being gay as a terrible thing, prompting "Eww" reactions and requiring overt denial and assertion of heterosexual traits.

 

And that was within the living memory of many of you.

 

I'm a bloke in my forties who went to an all boys school and played a lot of rugby. I'm quite sure I'm typical, in that I did and said stuff back in the day which now makes me ashamed.  All the name calling, "eh up lads, backs to the wall" type stuff which was par for the course in those days and probably the basis of the awful taunts which prompted the original thread.

 

The good news is, we've made progress. Society has moved on. Well, most of it, thankfully.

 

Whilst we have to defend the progress which has been made, I think we need to understand that not everyone was keeping up.

 

Sure, let's argue with people expressing outdated views, but I think we should show understanding with older people that those views might not always come from a hateful place, just a misinformed one.

 

100% this

[RumbleFox]

9 hours ago, Xen said:

Totally agree with you on that Rumble, not sure how any of what Thrac said can be taken the 'wrong' way. It's pretty clear what he thinks of people like myself, and the fact that morons like this still exist in 2017 is a painful reminder that whilst things have certainly progressed there's still a long way to go...

 

 

What REALLY gets me in that post is that last line, though. 'Perhaps the gay community could start attending to their own responsibilities'

 

THIS IS IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER MY RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL WITH. By saying it's my (/the LGBT community) responsibility he's basically saying that we're to blame for the vile paedophilia which has been going on for decades. I'm genuinely struggling to comprehend how anyone can even begin to hold a view like that in this day and age.

 

Funnily enough, a lot of the culprits are/were straight married family men from his generation...

 

 

 

As a side note, I refrained from posting in the thread earlier as by the time I was out of work and able to, Thrac's post had gone up and I was genuinely far too angry to type coherently. I'd like to say thank you to the rest of the posters who VERY quickly shot him down and other hateful speech in that thread, and were more or less positive and supportive of the LGBT community throughout. Some of what was discussed falls into a very grey area that I myself don't know where I sit on some of the issues, but the discussion was for the most part civil and well reasoned. A particular thanks to the Foxes Pride group who, although I've had no personal dealings with, do a fantastic job for the community.

This is a great post and I think it sums up why I am disappointed the thread was locked. Please put me right if I am putting words into your mouth but I think you summed it up well.  It is nice to see views challenged and debated as you have said and I think that is why it was heartwarming in the main to see the responses that were coming in.  And when I say responses, I in no way want Thracian to be insulted, banned or silenced.  Everybody's views deserve to be heard, even if we disagree with them but, in the same token, every view has the right to be challenged.  Well reasoned arguments to his viewpoint are vital, and much more effective than simply closing the thread (in my opinion). X

[Filberts lovechild]

Just now, ozleicester said:

Nope i am pointing out his actions are similar to that of the Nazis. And millions sat back and let those attitudes grow to a point that became nazi Germany,

 

I will not sit quietly by and allow lies and hate speech to continue unchallenged because nazi germany is what  happens.

 

Again you confuse fighting for equality with a right to free speech. Trump confused this also.One side is fighting for good the other is anti equality and incites hate. 

Freedom of speech does not give yiu the right to say ANYTHING you want.

Why not call him a religious group? Why not call him a communist? I think u can gauge by the response on here there is no Nazi uprising, just someone with a bit warped archaic views. No need for the rash response. And no u dont justify rash actions by claiming you have monopoly over what is true & good, some people of the same ilk deal with it in more respectful ways

[HighPeakFox]

6 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said:

Why not call him a religious group? Why not call him a communist? I think u can gauge by the response on here there is no Nazi uprising, just someone with a bit warped archaic views. No need for the rash response. And no u dont justify rash actions by claiming you have monopoly over what is true & good, some people of the same ilk deal with it in more respectful ways

Respectfully, I get what oz is saying. In society, today as much as ever, we are so close to lurching into a far right rabbit hole, and it happens DESPITE individuals abhorring the notion. Without wishing to go on a riff about how much our way of thinking is shaped for us, one only has to listen to the rhetoric of the powerful, and take a look at the vile headlines some of our 'newspapers' churn out, to see that hatred and fear are being engendered increasingly.

[ozleicester]

2 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said:

Why not call him a religious group? Why not call him a communist? I think u can gauge by the response on here there is no Nazi uprising, just someone with a bit warped archaic views. No need for the rash response. And no u dont justify rash actions by claiming you have monopoly over what is true & good, some people of the same ilk deal with it in more respectful ways

Your choice how you respond. You are fre to respond how you wish.

 

Right wing hatred and Nazism is on the rise . Too many people expect the peace loving equal rights people to sit back and argue nicely. Nope  no more. 

 

If violence and irrationallity is needed then so be it. Respectful discussion is only useful for so long. If some stupid old man feels free to spout lies and hate. He should be stopped. Fre speech does not include hate.

 

I have seen friends and family suffer. I have seen lives lost due to homophobia and hate speech being accepted and allowed.

[Filberts lovechild]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Respectfully, I get what oz is saying. In society, today as much as ever, we are so close to lurching into a far right rabbit hole, and it happens DESPITE individuals abhorring the notion. Without wishing to go on a riff about how much our way of thinking is shaped for us, one only has to listen to the rhetoric of the powerful, and take a look at the vile headlines some of our 'newspapers' churn out, to see that hatred and fear are being engendered increasingly.

I personally think it drives division & hatred in itself. I think we should be thankful that mainstream we see this type of stuff as abhorrent in today's society. Bar an idiot president did anyone rationally see that stuff on the US last week & think they are sane people? To lump an old bloke on here with old views with them is harsh & wrong. Seems

everyone these days believes anyone 'right' of them is a Nazi, fuelled by brexit, Corbyn etc. Churchill was a conservative, we calling him a Nazi too now?

[Guest MattP]

48 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Nazis did persecute gays. Check 

Your comments are like our friend Trumps statement "there is fault on both sides". Nope! One side is arguing and fighting for equality and freedom...the other is using these freedoms to incite hate. 

NO MORE!

The other side in that argument had many people waving communist flags, a regime just as brutal towards homosexuals. Don't fall for the idea groups like ANTIFA are about equality, they are also fascists. 

 

The reaction to Thracs post is exactly why freedom of speech is so wonderful, instead of those viewpoints being forced underground he has aired them and probably done more for the Foxes pride movement than anyone in bringing fans together against his views.

 

The ridicule and disgust he's now received from almost everyone is a far bigger punishment and far more embarrassing than any ban could be.

[Filberts lovechild]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

Your choice how you respond. You are fre to respond how you wish.

 

Right wing hatred and Nazism is on the rise . Too many people expect the peace loving equal rights people to sit back and argue nicely. Nope  no more. 

 

If violence and irrationallity is needed then so be it. Respectful discussion is only useful for so long. If some stupid old man feels free to spout lies and hate. He should be stopped. Fre speech does not include hate.

 

I have seen friends and family suffer. I have seen lives lost due to homophobia and hate speech being accepted and allowed.

I would personally would rather not side on Nazism or Communisms side and keep my sanity but there you go. God I miss when politics was boring & u we're picking between 2 idiots

[HighPeakFox]

7 minutes ago, Filberts lovechild said:

I personally think it drives division & hatred in itself. I think we should be thankful that mainstream we see this type of stuff as abhorrent in today's society. Bar an idiot president did anyone rationally see that stuff on the US last week & think they are sane people? To lump an old bloke on here with old views with them is harsh & wrong. Seems

everyone these days believes anyone 'right' of them is a Nazi, fuelled by brexit, Corbyn etc. Churchill was a conservative, we calling him a Nazi too now?

I think you've raised a whole lot of names there, most of which aren't relevant to the main point. I haven't called Thracian a Nazi, and there are plenty of people way further right of me that I wouldn't call that either. 

 

Unfortunately, certain societal traits of Fascism (for example, state and corporate interest becoming inextricably linked) have, or are, filtering into our world rapidly, and it has nothing to do with hatred of just one group, or groups. They just call it something more PC these days, which is ironic really, given how anti-PC the very same people are.

[ozleicester]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

The other side in that argument had many people waving communist flags, a regime just as brutal towards homosexuals. Don't fall for the idea groups like ANTIFA are about equality, they are also fascists. 

 

The reaction to Thracs post is exactly why freedom of speech is so wonderful, instead of those viewpoints being forced underground he has aired them and probably done more for the Foxes pride movement than anyone in bringing fans together against his views.

 

The ridicule and disgust he's now received from almost everyone is a far bigger punishment and far more embarrassing than any ban could be.

If you truly believe that ANTIFA and the Neo Nazis are the same. Then you are very very wrong.

Trump and his disciples might encourage you to believe but its a sad day if you are that easily fooled.

[Crinklyfox]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

From my experience Peaky the older they get the dafter they become ..     something to do with brain cells dying.

If we're going to link unacceptable comments to age then you can all beware.  Brain deterioration starts in our 20s and 30s and is influenced by factors such as drinking, smoking, lack of exercise and diet.  I concur with CF in that my brain isn't as good as it was in my youth but I don't think I'm completely daft yet.  I certainly wouldn't use my age as an excuse for making homophobic comments.

 

Those of us that remember the 50s and 60s grew up in an age where homosexuality was not only not accepted, it was illegal.  Until the Sexual Offences Act of 1967 was published it was a criminal offence to be homosexual, and that was the culture the older posters here were born into.

 

I'm not excusing homophobic posts, these are as abhorrent to me as racist posts.  The main difference between racism and homophobia in my opinion is that racism is taught and that if you are straight then there is a natural repulsion towards homosexuality (and the reverse is most likely also true).  That doesn't provide an excuse for homophobia, we are all born who we are and a little tolerance goes a long way.  

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

If you truly believe that ANTIFA and the Neo Nazis are the same. Then you are very very wrong.

Trump and his disciples might encourage you to believe but its a sad day if you are that easily fooled.

Both are violent, both are unreasonable, both have prejudice against certain groups, both fawn over regimes responsible for the death of millions - the horseshoe theory is strong on this one.

 

It's a shame they can't all kill each other and let the rest of society get on with it.

[ozleicester]

20 minutes ago, MattP said:

Both are violent, both are unreasonable, both have prejudice against certain groups, both fawn over regimes responsible for the death of millions - the horseshoe theory is strong on this one.

 

It's a shame they can't all kill each other and let the rest of society get on with it.

This is my point, you ACTUALLY think that those fighting Neo Nazi's are the same?

 

When the Allies fought the Nazis  were both sides  equal?

[ZeGuy]

29 minutes ago, MattP said:

Both are violent, both are unreasonable, both have prejudice against certain groups, both fawn over regimes responsible for the death of millions - the horseshoe theory is strong on this one.

 

It's a shame they can't all kill each other and let the rest of society get on with it.

Against which groups do AntiFa have any prejudice? Well aside from the fascists...Genuine question.

 

Whilst some of the antifa have questionable methods (oppose the fascists by any means necessary, including violence), I'm wondering which mental gymnastic people must go through to put racists, facists, neo nazis, homophobics and supremacists on the same level as the antifascists which are groups gathering people from very different horizons, beliefs and ideologies.

 

There is a form of relativism successfully exploited by the worst US President to date who hasn't yet finished to drag his country down into an abyss of shame, that I thought I'd find only in the youtube comments about how great the Wehrmacht was, and yet seem to thrive every day a bit more.

 

Genuinely worried.

[HighPeakFox]

The kind of thinking that allows people to balance AntiFa with Nazism, is the same sort of thinking that called Fascism 'National Socialism'. It's about sanitising something deeply poisonous and beneath contempt.