Would you date a Transsexual?

[Buce]

 

Tbh, @MattP, I think the question is too vague and ambiguous.

 

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) you mean would you have a sexual relationship with a transsexual?.

 

Edit: Actually, James put it better than I did.

Edited 24 January 2018 by Buce

[Benguin]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

There is no such thing in British law as a 'crime of passion', though I would argue that there should be.

Sexual infidelity is held under the defence of provocation in English law, which is the same difference. Be careful with "British law" as well, English and Scottish law, particularly criminal, are different in many aspects.

[Guest the fox]

like many other topics like this, "whatever, it's your life" just isn't good enough, you have to cheer them on or you're the villain.

 

 

i have the right to judge what kind of person i'm gonna end up with, the way they talk to others, eating and bathroom mannerisms and yeah, sexuality and gender. save the "my genitalia doesn't define me" to "the view", don't say that after you got under the knife and had a lifelong obsession with the genitals you have/had. 

 

 

[David Guiza]

I'd consider myself a liberal and open person but the list of reasons I wouldn't date somebody is as long as our list of supposed transfer targets. I don't really see the connection between somebody's sexual allure and their basic rights. 

Edited 24 January 2018 by David Guiza

[Steven]

2 minutes ago, the fox said:

like many other topics like this, "whatever, it's your life" just isn't good enough, you have to cheer them on or you're the villain.

 

 

i have the right to judge what kind of person i'm gonna end up with, the way they talk to others, eating and bathroom mannerisms and yeah, sexuality and gender. save the "my genitalia doesn't define me" to "the view", don't say that after you got under the knife and had a lifelong obsession with the genitals you have/had. 

 

 

All of which is genitalia free? 

[Buce]

18 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

It's been years since I studied criminal law but from memory mitigating and aggravating circumstances are taken into account and have been for decades, illustrated in the partial defence of provocation which can reduce a murder sentence to manslaughter based on the 'provoking' circumstances upon the defendant. 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Sexual infidelity is held under the defence of provocation in English law, which is the same difference. Be careful with "British law" as well, English and Scottish law, particularly criminal, are different in many aspects.

 

I'm far from being an expert on the subject, and I accept what you say regarding provocation. However, as I understand it, the actual term Crime of Passion is something that is present in French law (or at least was), not British law.

 

Of course, I may be wrong, in which case you'll show me the relevant legislation.

Edited 24 January 2018 by Buce

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

All of which is genitalia free? 

@Buce there's your definition of obtuse.

[Guest the fox]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

All of which is genitalia free? 

gender is genitalia free? 

[Benguin]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

 

I'm far from being an expert on the subject, and I accept what you say regarding provocation. However, as I understand it, the actual term Crime of Passion is something that is present in French law (or at least was), not British law.

 

Of course, I may be wrong, in which case you'll show me the relevant legislation.

Im not saying there's a crime of passion law but sexual infidelity is a legitimate provocation which will, if proved, reduce a sentence. There's no legislation, we're in the UK "a common law ocean with islands of statutory provisions." Give me some time and I'll try and remember the name of the cases.

[Steven]

2 minutes ago, Benguin said:

@Buce there's your definition of obtuse.

I am neither insensitive or slow to understand. Don't let the facts get in the way of your "argument". By the way are you "Browsing Rachel's knicker draw" for something to wear? 

[Steven]

1 minute ago, the fox said:

gender is genitalia free? 

From a personal perspective of course it is. There are plenty of people that perceive themselves as a gender that their genitalia might otherwise indicate.

[Buce]

 

I don't watch soap operas, so I may be wrong about this, but many years ago my late mother (who was an avid fan of Coronation Street) made mention of a character who was dating what he thought was a woman, who then turned out to have been born a man. As I recall, his take on it (after much soul searching) was that the person with with whom he had fallen in love, remained that person regardless of biology, and therefore he continued the relationship.

 

Hypothetically, if my soul mate had turned out to be transsexual, I think my attitude would have been the same.

[Captain...]

16 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

It's been years since I studied criminal law but from memory mitigating and aggravating circumstances are taken into account and have been for decades, illustrated in the partial defence of provocation which can reduce a murder sentence to manslaughter based on the 'provoking' circumstances upon the defendant. 

 

 

There is a defence of temporary insanity, which is similar to a crime of passion, where you just completely lose it and are unable to think rationally. It is not with out its problems and criticisms and very difficult to prove. It may only be a partial defence.

[Guest the fox]

Just now, Steven said:

From a personal perspective of course it is. There are plenty of people that perceive themselves as a gender that their genitalia might otherwise indicate.

you can call yourself an apache helicopter or wonder women for all i care, but you can't argue with bioligy. male body= male, female body=female. sexuality is another thing altogether

[Guest the fox]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I don't watch soap operas, so I may be wrong about this, but many years ago my late mother (who was an avid fan of Coronation Street) made mention of a character who was dating what he thought was a woman, who then turned out to have been born a man. As I recall, his take on it (after much soul searching) was that the person with with whom he had fallen in love, remained that person regardless of biology, and therefore he continued the relationship.

 

Hypothetically, if my soul mate had turned out to be transsexual, I think my attitude would have been the same.

but isn't that "morally incorrect" (people like to throw that term around).

 

doesn't he deserve to know what he's getting into? like did she fail to mention "i hate spaghetti, our cat was killed by a speeding truck, i have allergies........and yeah, the foreskin was really bothersome."

[Steven]

5 minutes ago, the fox said:

you can call yourself an apache helicopter or wonder women for all i care, but you can't argue with bioligy. male body= male, female body=female. sexuality is another thing altogether

This kind of binary world does not anywhere in nature except in the sense of being alive (though some Catholics and anti-abortionists would even dispute that).

[Captain...]

I think Matt has asked a fair question and his opening post is pretty neutral.

 

"Date" I have taken to mean go on a date with and explore the possibilities of entering into a sexual and meaningful relationship. I stand by my answer, yes, which means I would not immediately rule someone out if they were trans.

 

Lets be honest nobody we could get would be a perfect specimen and satisfy our needs and desires 100%, we all make compromises in dating, consciously or unconsciously. So if there was a woman who ticked every single box, was stunning looking and funny and just a joy to be around, so much so that all you want to do is spend time with them and they get your boat running sexually or whatever criteria you base your life partners on. The only down side is they were born a man, but had gender reassignment surgery early so you can't tell, they had lived as a woman their entire adult life. Without any of the hang ups and mental issues associated with being trans. The only difference would be no periods, no pmt, no kids (open to adopting if you want) and enough residual man strength to be able to open jars themselves. Where is the downside?

[Guest MattP]

23 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Imagine thinking showing a sexual interest in someone was the only way for you to show approval of their right to exist as they please.

Predictably, here it comes, misrepresentation of what has been said or asked to try and discredit, something that now arrives into every debate day in this day and age.

 

I believe everyone has the right to define themselves as whatever they want, if a woman wants to define themselves as a man or vice-versa they are free to do so, I have never said they couldn't and the idea that the question was in any way shaped to show people disapproving of this as you imply is false, it was simply a question to see if society as a whole in a small sample saw a transsexual in the same sexual way as they would what some would define as a person of the sex they were born.

 

What was it Kipling said? if you can see your words twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools.

 

[Buce]

 

I'm not sure if this answers the legal question @Benguin, @David Guiza but it is interesting nonetheless:

 

https://legalhistorymiscellany.com/2016/08/08/infidelity-defence/

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Captain... said:

I think Matt has asked a fair question and his opening post is pretty neutral.

 

"Date" I have taken to mean go on a date with and explore the possibilities of entering into a sexual and meaningful relationship. I stand by my answer, yes, which means I would not immediately rule someone out if they were trans.

 

Lets be honest nobody we could get would be a perfect specimen and satisfy our needs and desires 100%, we all make compromises in dating, consciously or unconsciously. So if there was a woman who ticked every single box, was stunning looking and funny and just a joy to be around, so much so that all you want to do is spend time with them and they get your boat running sexually or whatever criteria you base your life partners on. The only down side is they were born a man, but had gender reassignment surgery early so you can't tell, they had lived as a woman their entire adult life. Without any of the hang ups and mental issues associated with being trans. The only difference would be no periods, no pmt, no kids (open to adopting if you want) and enough residual man strength to be able to open jars themselves. Where is the downside?

Spot on Captain, appreciated.

[Rogstanley]

27 minutes ago, the fox said:

like many other topics like this, "whatever, it's your life" just isn't good enough, you have to cheer them on or you're the villain.

 

 

i have the right to judge what kind of person i'm gonna end up with, the way they talk to others, eating and bathroom mannerisms and yeah, sexuality and gender. save the "my genitalia doesn't define me" to "the view", don't say that after you got under the knife and had a lifelong obsession with the genitals you have/had. 

 

 

Who is asking you to "cheer them on"? Can you provide an example?

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, the fox said:

but isn't that "morally incorrect" (people like to throw that term around).

 

doesn't he deserve to know what he's getting into? like did she fail to mention "i hate spaghetti, our cat was killed by a speeding truck, i have allergies........and yeah, the foreskin was really bothersome."

 

Morality is a subjective term, I think.

 

Maybe a Coronation Street fan might remember the story in more detail.

[Guest the fox]

Just now, Rogstanley said:

Who is asking you to "cheer them on"? Can you provide an example?

and that's why i said "like many other topics like this".and i wasn't talking about just this forum. alot of people aren't happy with just "whatever", because "whatever" will be seen as a unapproval and from there people will start speculations.

go on social media, not baking a cake that says "go for gay marriage" will make you a homophobe

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Predictably, here it comes, misrepresentation of what has been said or asked to try and discredit, something that now arrives into every debate day in this day and age.

 

I believe everyone has the right to define themselves as whatever they want, if a woman wants to define themselves as a man or vice-versa they are free to do so, I have never said they couldn't and the idea that the question was in any way shaped to show people disapproving of this as you imply is false, it was simply a question to see if society as a whole in a small sample saw a transsexual in the same sexual way as they would what some would define as a person of the sex they were born.

 

What was it Kipling said? if you can see your words twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools.

 

 

Well, on face value that was the question you were asking - but I was more referring to this post below. Happy for you to expand on it further but I can't really see what else you're implying here?

 

2 hours ago, MattP said:

 

 

If a hetrosexual male genuinely believes a ex-man who has transitioned to a women is one, they would have no problem in dating "her", the results are pretty much what I expected them to be and it shows the vast majority don't believe this to be the case

 

[David Guiza]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I'm not sure if this answers the legal question @Benguin, @David Guiza but it is interesting nonetheless:

 

https://legalhistorymiscellany.com/2016/08/08/infidelity-defence/

Some very interesting points in there, such as:-

 

In England and Wales today, one woman is killed every three days by a current or former intimate partner. 

 

I agree that 'crimes of passion' should always be considered in sentencing, as I think the majority can agree that a sudden and temporary loss of control is vastly different to a calculated and planned attack. The problem however I guess is that it's probably a bit of a can of worms situation for allowing jealous ex's to attempt to justify their actions in order to get a reduced sentence. Anyway, providing that it never becomes a complete defence then I do believe it is an important part of the law.