Changes needed from the top down

[MC Prussian]

2 minutes ago, Nigel Graham Pearson said:

Time for the Thais to ask themselves if they really are serious about us becoming a team that can consistently fight for sixth or above. Put up or shut up. 

Top Six in the near future, unlikely. Very unlikely.

 

We're talking about challenging the status quo of Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal all being pretty much lightyears ahead of us still.

 

Realistically, as demonstrated by a season like this one, 7th and the potential chance of playing in Europe is what we can strive for (be it through the league or by winning a domestic cup competition).

Edited 28 April 2018 by MC Prussian

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Yeah done no good for us whatsoever have they. Oh except the most successful era in the entire history of the club. There is that.

The success primarily stems from the work of a manager they initially didn't want. For the most part they've been great owners but they've been incredibly lucky.

[Rogstanley]

Just now, Wookie said:

The success primarily stems from the work of a manager they initially didn't want. For the most part they've been great owners but they've been incredibly lucky.

So if they do well it’s luck. If they don’t it’s incompetence. Can’t win then, can they.

[Stadt]

6 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

So if they do well it’s luck. If they don’t it’s incompetence. Can’t win then, can they.

Reappointing Pearson and his coaching staff was very shrewd. The training ground investment is a fantastic move as well as clearing/restructuring the debt, they have been good owners but our recruitment of managers has been decidedly poor. If it's down to Rudkin then they should have binned him off a while ago as they clearly have too much faith in a man that's only ever been an academy director and coach.

[Blue'nWhiteFox]

7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

"7th and the potential chance of playing in Europe is what we can strive for" ...

No. We should always strive for the very top, even if it isn't the most realistic due to the financial framework.

 

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, Blue'nWhiteFox said:

No. We should always strive for the very top, even if it isn't the most realistic due to the financial framework.

 

We should strive for something we realistically will never be able to achieve?

I'm not sure whether that works out that well.

 

You can chase reality or you can chase an illusion. Which one are you going for?

[Blue'nWhiteFox]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

We should strive for something we realistically will never be able to achieve?

I'm not sure whether that works out that well.

 

You can chase reality or you can chase an illusion. Which one are you going for?

Have you already forgot the season two years ago ..?

[Pete from the USA]

I was a Puel supporter until today, but he's a dead man walking.

 

Forget the blame game. We learned a lesson from the Puel experiment: Attacking/possession football isn't all it's cracked up to be. Unless you have a squad of $50M players, you just end up being vulnerable in behind. 

 

I would like to see the next manager follow the strategy of Atletico Madrid: Build a strong backfield, become incredibly hard to beat, develop a passing-based attack that works off this defense, and climb the table on 1-0 wins. 

 

All the wins this season, even under Puel, were with Ndidi and Iborra playing in front of a back four. Let's get back to this once their hamstrings heal up. 

 

 

[Rogstanley]

12 minutes ago, Wookie said:

Reappointing Pearson and his coaching staff was very shrewd. The training ground investment is a fantastic move as well as clearing/restructuring the debt, they have been good owners but our recruitment of managers has been decidedly poor. If it's down to Rudkin then they should have binned him off a while ago as they clearly have too much faith in a man that's only ever been an academy director and coach.

Well arguably they didn’t appoint Sousa or Sven. As far as I can recall they didn’t even own the club when Sousa was appointed. When Sven was appointed Mandaric was still chairman and presumably if not calling the shots then heavily influential. So the only managerial appointments that can definitely be pinned on the Thai’s are:

 

Pearson: got us promoted and kept us up

 

Ranieri: won us the league before succumbing to a bizarre 2nd season where he lost the players

 

Shakespeare: saved us from relegation and gave us the greatest single night in the club’s history against Sevilla, ultimately fading after seeming to lose the players

 

Puel: arguably saved us from relegation, is (perhaps naively) attempting a complete overhaul of the way we play football and has not yet had a single summer transfer window to properly put his squad together. Not looking good because he seems to have lost the players but he still might turn out ok.

 

 

Looking at it like that it’s not actually a bad record. Certainly a lot better than our record before the Thai’s arrive and post-MON. You’d do well to find a comparable club with a better record on managers tbh. A couple of years ago Southampton were the benchmark of progressive managerial appointments and now they’re in the relegation zone. It’s exceptionally hard to consistently pick successful managers, that’s one of the reasons why no club like ours in the premier league era has ever broken into the top-6 and stayed there.

Edited 28 April 2018 by Rogstanley

[MC Prussian]

3 minutes ago, Blue'nWhiteFox said:

Have you already forgot the season two years ago ..?

We didn't foresee what was coming that season and we surely didn't plan for it.

I'm talking about what the executives at the club plan season-by-season.

 

The league title came unexpectedly and should be regarded as a freak event, a very positive one, of course.

Chances are we'll never see something like it happening for another 50 years or so - or even longer.

 

 

[Foxy-Lady]

2 hours ago, tomlcfc said:

I just do not understand where all of this unsubstantiated stuff about Rudkin comes from.

Perhaps you consider it "unsubstantiated" because people who know better than us are simply unable to disclose the source(s) of their information for fera of reprisal as it might compromise their positions and/or families...?!?

I know a few people who have worked closely with the club who find themslves in this position and i dont consider their knowledge to be unsubstantiated

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Well arguably they didn’t appoint Sousa or Sven. As far as I can recall they didn’t even own the club when Sousa was appointed. When Sven was appointed Mandaric was still chairman and presumably if not calling the shots then heavily influential. So the only managerial appointments that can definitely be pinned on the Thai’s are:

 

Pearson: got us promoted and kept us up

 

Ranieri: won us the league before succumbing to a bizarre 2nd season where he lost the players

 

Shakespeare: saved us from relegation and gave us the greatest single night in the club’s history against Sevilla, ultimately fading after seeming to lose the players

 

Puel: arguably saved us from relegation, is (perhaps naively) attempting a complete overhaul of the way we play football and has not yet had a single summer transfer window to properly put his squad together. Not looking good because he seems to have lost the players but he still might turn out ok.

 

 

Looking at it like that it’s not actually a bad record. Certainly a lot better than our record before the Thai’s arrive and post-MON. You’d do well to find a comparable club with a better record on managers tbh. A couple of years ago Southampton were the benchmark of progressive managerial appointments and now they’re in the relegation zone. It’s exceptionally hard to constantly pick good managers, that’s one of the reasons why no club like ours in the premier league era has ever broken the top-4 and stayed there.

Sousa was appointed in July 2010, Vichai became the owner in August. I think they'd have significant input in who'd be manager whilst completing the takeover deal. Considering Mandaric's appointments were the likes of Megson and Holloway it's fairly clear that 'names' like Sousa and Sven probably were appealing to the owners.

 

It's not just the managers though as I agree when written like that it looks a decent record but its the process after sacking them, not once after a sacking (especially mid season) have we acted promptly, we've struggled to seek managers out and seem to only appoint managers from English football. We might have to agree to disagree but sacking three managers in fourteen months says it all to me.

[tomlcfc]

16 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Perhaps you consider it "unsubstantiated" because people who know better than us are simply unable to disclose the source(s) of their information for fera of reprisal as it might compromise their positions and/or families...?!?

I know a few people who have worked closely with the club who find themslves in this position and i dont consider their knowledge to be unsubstantiated

So what info do we have from these 'sources'?

[lcfc sheff]

28 minutes ago, Pete from the USA said:

I was a Puel supporter until today, but he's a dead man walking.

 

Forget the blame game. We learned a lesson from the Puel experiment: Attacking/possession football isn't all it's cracked up to be. Unless you have a squad of $50M players, you just end up being vulnerable in behind. 

 

I would like to see the next manager follow the strategy of Atletico Madrid: Build a strong backfield, become incredibly hard to beat, develop a passing-based attack that works off this defense, and climb the table on 1-0 wins. 

 

All the wins this season, even under Puel, were with Ndidi and Iborra playing in front of a back four. Let's get back to this once their hamstrings heal up. 

 

 

This. 

[TrentFox]

Not a fan of jumping on bandwagons, but might make an exception here. The title of Director Of Foitball implies just that - that it is being directed. Right now, it doesn’t feel like anyone is directing anything. Just has the feel of being rudderless. I have no links into the club, so that might be totally unwarranted, but that’s how it feels. Cliche alert - “the buck stops here”. If Puel has to go for being the wrong fit, then that’s not where the buck should stop. JR faces his ‘Amber Rudd’ moment. Let’s hope our owners have more balls than Theresa May. 

[Ian Nacho]

We also always seem to sack managers with no clear plan on who to get, or at least no guarantee we can persuade someone. 

[Pete from the USA]

Michael Appleton?

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, Pete from the USA said:

I would like to see the next manager follow the strategy of Atletico Madrid: Build a strong backfield, become incredibly hard to beat, develop a passing-based attack that works off this defense, and climb the table on 1-0 wins. 

Diego Simeone is a world class manager and coach that took charge of one of the bigger clubs in Spain. We're Leicester City that can only attract managers out of work.

[Pete from the USA]

7 minutes ago, Wookie said:

Diego Simeone is a world class manager and coach that took charge of one of the bigger clubs in Spain. We're Leicester City that can only attract managers out of work.

Fair enough. But whoever is the manger needs to go back to basics and figure out how to defend. I will be thankful if the rest of the season is 0-0 draws. 

[Plastik Man]

6 hours ago, jumbo747 said:

This, but I'll go further - (it's not going to happen I know) but I wish we could swap the owners for someone who has a bit of feeling for English football and has at least a modicum of roots in the community. Ah well, dream on.

Interesting. In the real world practically all of our previous owners were drawn from the local community, were roundly booed and subjected to Sack the Board chants and led us to modest occasional success and a reputation as a selling club.

 

But they did have a feel for English football. Just like the FA come to think of it!

[Foxy-Lady]

20 hours ago, tomlcfc said:

So what info do we have from these 'sources'?

Probably best if you go back and read all the previous posts on this issue and that will give you a fair indication. 

 

Not a perfect science to identfy which are the most reliable sources of information on this forum but i think its a reasaonable indicator of which way the wind is blowing when the vast majority of posters all seem to share the same view.....and some of those views will defintely be 'reliably' informed.

[The Wizard]

Changes needed from the top down...or is it from "TOP!" down ?... I am reading this with my "confused" Puel face..

[StriderHiryu]

Can’t believe I’m writing this but I’m actually going to stick up for Rudkin and the commercial management team this season. 

 

The Adrien Silva situation was a disaster and they deserve criticism for that but otherwise:

 

- Backed Shakespeare with Maguire and Nacho signings. Maguire has been terrific by and large. 

- Invested into u23 squad who have had their best season in ages. 

- Signed Nacho who was wanted by Dortmund, Monaco and Spurs. Pushed it through despite a complex deal with his former agent. Sadly he’s been massively underwhelming. 

- Signed Iborra who has Europa and Champions League experience and a physique that can stand up to the league. He’s been a decent signing. 

- Stood by Silva and did everything to try and solve the legal issue. The player had been linked with Spurs and Chelsea in the past and had Champions League experience plus a European Championship medal. Sadly he’s not lived up to his billing at all. I’m hoping he’ll come good but not optimistic. 

- Got the plans approved for our new state of the art training facility. 

- Announced the stadium expansion.

- Kept Mahrez. 

 

We were as high as 7th this season and had chances to progress in both cups. Puel started well but we’ve regressed massively. I put the blame squarely at his door - he could not excite the players or fans and behind closed doors something has happened and he’s lost the dressing room. 

 

I think Rudkin / Wheelan et al could massively up their game but don’t think they’ve done much wrong. Keeping Shakespeare at the start of the season was a mistake in hindsight but he deserved a chance. Puel was the wrong appointment but his reputation for building progressive teams and developing youth was what the owners wanted so seemed like a good choice. Sometimes it just doesn’t come off. 

 

Of course it’s not worked out and the next appointment is massive. 

Edited 29 April 2018 by StriderHiryu

[MC Prussian]

Listen, I know scouting and recruiting players was, is and always will be a huge gamble.

 

But could somebody please explain to me how our record of incoming transfers on the whole since the league title can in any way or shape be justified?

I exclude youth players and players whom we signed on a free (like Hernandez).

 

2016-17

Ron-Robert Zieler £2.6m - never settled in, couldn't challenge Schmeichel, and despite his reputation and experience, ultimately ended up as a failure

Nampalys Mendy £13m - unfortunate with his injuries with us

Ahmed Musa £16m - Pre-season friendly against Barcelona, and that was that

Bartosz Kapustka £2.5m - never given a chance here, and fails even to make the bench at SC Freiburg

Islam Slimani £28m - never fit our style and due to injuries, a bad investment 

Wilfried Ndidi £17m - maybe a bit overpriced, but could come good in the future (for everyone praising his tackling and winning back balls mentality, he gives the ball away too easily)

 

2017-18

Harry Maguire £17m - steal for an English player and for a Premier League transfer

Vicente Iborra £15m - maybe a bit overpriced for a 29-year old at the time

Kelechi Iheanacho £25m (with a buy-back clause for Manchester City) - has had little opportunity what he's made of, some glimpses of genius; still think we paid over the odds there.

Adrien Silva £22m - missed four months of football thanks to our own incompetence, and isn't really fancied by Puel (who picks Choudhoury ahead of a Portugal international)

Fousseni Diabaté £2m - steal

 

We've done a bit better last summer, but it's still very sketchy.

When is our recruitment team coming under scrutiny?

Edited 30 April 2018 by MC Prussian

[mozartfox]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Listen, I know scouting and recruiting players was, is and always will be a huge gamble.

 

But could somebody please explain to me how our record of incoming transfers on the whole since the league title can in any way or shape be justified?

I exclude youth players and players whom we signed on a free (like Hernandez).

 

2016-17

Ron-Robert Zieler £2.6m - never settled in, couldn't challenge Schmeichel, and despite his reputation and experience, ultimately ended up as a failure

Nampalys Mendy £13m - unfortunate with his injuries with us

Ahmed Musa £16m - Pre-season friendly against Barcelona, and that was that

Bartosz Kapustka £2.5m - never given a chance here, and fails even to make the bench at SC Freiburg

Islam Slimani £28m - never fit our style and due to injuries, a bad investment 

Wilfried Ndidi £17m - maybe a bit overpriced, but could come good in the future (for everyone praising his tackling and winning back balls mentality, he gives the ball away too easily)

 

2017-18

Harry Maguire £17m - steal for an English player and for a Premier League transfer)

Vicente Iborra £15m - maybe a bit overpriced for a 29-year old at the time)

Kelechi Iheanacho £25m (with a buy-back clause for Manchester City) - has had little opportunity what he's made of, some glimpses of genius; still think we paid over the odds there.

Adrien Silva £22m - missed four months of football thanks to our own incompetence, and isn't really fancied by Puel (who picks Choudhoury ahead of a Portugal international)

Fousseni Diabaté £2m - steal

 

We've done a bit better last summer, but it's still very sketchy.

When is our recruitment team coming under scrutiny?

Excellent points.   Do I have no idea how so much money has been wasted with no-one being held accountable?  No,  A true mystery if ever there was one.