Cricket 2018

[Osavo]

2 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Vince is in form to be fair.

As he has been when he's been called up previously. Unfortunately, and I'd love to be proven wrong, I think he is one of those players who will always look good in county cricket but never quite be good enough for test match cricket.

[Bobby Hundreds]

2 minutes ago, Osavo said:

As he has been when he's been called up previously. Unfortunately, and I'd love to be proven wrong, I think he is one of those players who will always look good in county cricket but never quite be good enough for test match cricket.

Well if anyone can give Vince pointers on scoring a sackful of county runs and consistently getting out in the teens at international level it's the England batting coach.

[Captain...]

41 minutes ago, Osavo said:

As he has been when he's been called up previously. Unfortunately, and I'd love to be proven wrong, I think he is one of those players who will always look good in county cricket but never quite be good enough for test match cricket.

I don’t think it has helped that he has been called up at a time when the openers are consistently failing and he is virtually facing the new ball every innings. I know that a number 3 should be almost as good with the new ball as an opener but it would have been nice for him to have a few innings where England aren’t immediately under pressure. 

I don't think he is the answer, at least not to the most pressing question but I hope he does get another chance and one where he gets a chance to bat when a decent platform has been set.

[Osavo]

22 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I don’t think it has helped that he has been called up at a time when the openers are consistently failing and he is virtually facing the new ball every innings. I know that a number 3 should be almost as good with the new ball as an opener but it would have been nice for him to have a few innings where England aren’t immediately under pressure. 

I don't think he is the answer, at least not to the most pressing question but I hope he does get another chance and one where he gets a chance to bat when a decent platform has been set.

Tbf, I agree with this, and I do think Vince is an excellent technical player, probably one of our best. However, if our number 3 is often also effectively playing the role of an opener, why not call up someone who opens for their county and put them at 3? Surely that would seem a more sensible plan. 

[Max Wall]

5 hours ago, Captain... said:

I don’t think it has helped that he has been called up at a time when the openers are consistently failing and he is virtually facing the new ball every innings. I know that a number 3 should be almost as good with the new ball as an opener but it would have been nice for him to have a few innings where England aren’t immediately under pressure. 

I don't think he is the answer, at least not to the most pressing question but I hope he does get another chance and one where he gets a chance to bat when a decent platform has been set.

That is a very good point that I hadn't really considered. I'm not sure how many times he's entered the fray when we're well set in an innings, maybe never, those statistics would be interesting. Given the state of our batting, it's unlikely he'll get that opportunity soon if he played either.

[Bobby Hundreds]

In 32 of the last 64 innings I think England have been >100-4, effectively everyone down to 6 & 7 are facing a <20 over old ball. 

[Max Wall]

2 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

In 32 of the last 64 innings I think England have been >100-4, effectively everyone down to 6 & 7 are facing a <20 over old ball. 

Any idea whether Vince has ever come in at 200 odd for 2 and what he scored? 

[fuchsntf]

22 hours ago, Osavo said:

Vince again, really? 

Kick in the teeth for Rory Burns, that. Vince has been a serial failure in test cricket and keeps getting chances, the same thing happened with Keaton Jennings, why recall players who have already proven they are not up to scratch?

Personally for this test, given our sqaud, I'd play

Cook, Jennings, Ali, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Woakes, Rashid, Broad, Anderson

We all have our favourites and ideas,but like fans on city managers weekly selections, it's an opinion.

Trying to throw disdain,all over the selection of others,means you become another boring selection failure.

 

That said....I like the team you put down.Though I would like to see Curran get back in,Left handed bowler,caused them problems

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

 

15 minutes ago, Max Wall said:

Any idea whether Vince has ever come in at 200 odd for 2 and what he scored? 

He came in against Pakistan at Old Trafford in 2016 when we were 210-2 and scored 18; 160-3 against Sri Lanka and scored 35. His current test average is 24.9 but 30.5 at 3 and his three >50 scores were all batted at #3 after losing a wicket within the first 9 overs (2 were within 2.4 overs).

[RowlattsFox]

Vince returning just shows the problem English cricket has at the minute. Players will get dropped and then be the best in the county circuit, I'm pretty sure Keaton Jennings would go and score decent runs for his country. People are not growing up wanting to be test opening batsmen it seems, and practising the game accordingly, young players too focused on playing shots rather than technique. Just looked at the latest lions teams and none of the openers really impressed either from what I can see.

 

Edited 24 August 2018 by RowlattsFox

[Max Wall]

5 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

 

He came in against Pakistan at Old Trafford in 2016 when we were 210-2 and scored 18; 160-3 against Sri Lanka and scored 35. His current test average is 24.9 but 30.5 at 3 and his three >50 scores were all batted at #3 after losing a wicket within the first 9 overs (2 were within 2.4 overs).

Haha. Thanks for the leg work Bobby. Going on those statistics, I think I've worked out Vince's problem..... He's shite. 

Edited 24 August 2018 by Max Wall

[Guest MattP]

Strange selection process continues, Woakes and Pope now back out again, Moeen and Curran back in.

I assume they think it's going to turn, but the decisions are getting a bit weird now.

[Max Wall]

Just now, MattP said:

Strange selection process continues, Woakes and Pope now back out again, Moeen and Curran back in.

I assume they think it's going to turn, but the decisions are getting a bit weird now.

Strange dropping Pope out after keeping him in last week when Stokes returned. Not hugely surprised by Mo's inclusion. I think Woake's has a niggle Matt. That's what they seemed to imply on the report I saw before the squad was announced.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Woakes is injured. I wasn't a fan of Pope's shot to get out in the fourth innings, not sure it merited being dropped mind.  

Edited 29 August 2018 by Bobby Hundreds

[Voll Blau]

Curran didn't deserve to be dropped in the first place, so glad he's back, but what sort of message does that send to Pope FFS. OK he didn't set the world alight in his first game, but why even bring him in if he's not going to get another go while the likes of Jennings are allowed chance after chance?

[Max Wall]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

Curran didn't deserve to be dropped in the first place, so glad he's back, but what sort of message does that send to Pope FFS. OK he didn't set the world alight in his first game, but why even bring him in if he's not going to get another go while the likes of Jennings are allowed chance after chance?

Couldn't agree more. I posted on here before the last test that I thought they'd keep Pope in as they've made great efforts to get away from the horses for courses selections of the 90's. To then discard him next test doesn't keep with that theory at all.

Maybe the selectors felt he was a luxury they could keep in the last test as we were 2-0 up and were expected to cause India more difficulty at Trent Bridge in swinging conditions. This may be a more safety first approach now the series is back in the balance.

[Captain...]

16 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Curran didn't deserve to be dropped in the first place, so glad he's back, but what sort of message does that send to Pope FFS. OK he didn't set the world alight in his first game, but why even bring him in if he's not going to get another go while the likes of Jennings are allowed chance after chance?

He isn’t a number 4 he plays for his county at 6 where he can either counter attack if they are behind in the game or play his shots if they are on top. He is not someone who is used to dropping anchor and playing a test innings at 4 after the loss of a couple of wickets.

That’s why you often see all rounders or wicket keepers showing up the top order because by the time they come in they know what they need to do and don’t have to think about the state of the game just how many runs can they add.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

He isn’t a number 4 he plays for his county at 6 where he can either counter attack if they are behind in the game or play his shots if they are on top. He is not someone who is used to dropping anchor and playing a test innings at 4 after the loss of a couple of wickets.

That’s why you often see all rounders or wicket keepers showing up the top order because by the time they come in they know what they need to do and don’t have to think about the state of the game just how many runs can they add.

Yeah, precisely. But that's not his fault he was put in that position. "Listen lad, we've thrown you in at the deep end with the top order doing fvck all to protect you in a position you've never batted in at a level you've never played at - but you didn't do very well at that so off you pop?"

He's only a young lad and it's bound to knock his confidence. Just hope he doesn't end up being another Kerrigan.

[Guest MattP]

It is absolutely shocking the way Pope has been treated, asked to bat higher than he ever has at county level then gone after three innings.

The amount of lefties we have as well, if it does turn Ashwin is your bet for MotM - could run through us.

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Yeah, precisely. But that's not his fault he was put in that position. "Listen lad, we've thrown you in at the deep end with the top order doing fvck all to protect you in a position you've never batted in at a level you've never played at - but you didn't do very well at that so off you pop?"

He's only a young lad and it's bound to knock his confidence. Just hope he doesn't end up being another Kerrigan.

You’d hope they’ve actually spoken to him explained their thinking and reasoning. Same with Curran when he was left out for the last test. If we can get to a point where we have a solid group of young players with test experience to call up when injuries, fitness, conditions require we will be in a better position than if we just stick with a player until they are completely burnt out by the experience. Not piling a huge amount of pressure on them every test. 

Curran and Pope have many years ahead of them let them enjoy their cricket without making them the next golden boy groomed for captaincy like Cook or Root.

[Bobby Hundreds]

That Jennings dismissal  

Bye bye Keaton.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I sense another <100-4 score incoming...

[surrifox]

20 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

That Jennings dismissal  

Bye bye Keaton.

For good hopefully . I can't recall a worse England opener apart from Robson 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

That Jennings dismissal  

Bye bye Keaton.

Absolutely comical. 

[Guest MattP]

31 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

That Jennings dismissal  

Bye bye Keaton.

Chris Read-esque almost.

Surely his next innings is his last.