Exit Rumours

[Katy]

1 hour ago, brucey said:

 

The caption with the photo when translated starts with "one year..". Could be a throwback post thing. Is he posing with a season ticket?

 

 Could well be, he does a lot of stuff for them.

[Bunyip]

There's bound to be a leaving party for him on the Saff.

[sylofox]

Suzie the Fox will have all the info on this one. He will have told her when he got out of bed this morning  

[volpeazzurro]

On 08/06/2018 at 20:20, Albert said:

Puel wasn’t in charge when he signed it was Shakespeare.

Signing a player of his calibre & experience for £12m (which is the reported figure which are usually inaccurate) in today’s market is in no way terrible business. His main attributes which are his vision, passing ability & controlling the pace of play from the middle of the park aren’t effected by age & are invaluable to the team. Cambiasso showed us that and he was 4yrs older! 

Despite the few injury problems he’s had whenever he does play it’s evident what a class act he is & you can see the improvements in N’didi’s game also as he learns from him.

 

 

 

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

[Gerard]

11 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

[Gerard]

13 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

 

£15m apparently. 

 

What mostly annoys me about the Iborra signing was he was nearly 30, uncapped and a squad player at Sevilla. At the time of buying he came as a squad player as he was never going to displace Ndidi or Drinkwater. 

 

We knew exactly the player we were buying. Coming towards the end of his career, has never been good enough at any point in his career to get a cap for Spain and was a squad player at Sevilla. Financially we're about on par with Sevilla and a bit richer so we should be able to compete with them. We'll never get anywhere if we take their ageing squad players from them. Iborra had agreed to go to Sunderland for £7m the year before but had a last minute change of heart. Sevilla had tried to get rid of him the year before but ended up selling him to us for more than twice the Sunderland fee.

 

I honestly don't know what goes through the head of the people who wanted and sanctioned this deal. We've got exactly what we deserved, all the signs were there for all to see that it would be poor business.

[Albert]

2 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

For a ‘Spanish Donkey’ he’s not done too bad for himself seeing as though he captained one of Spain’s top sides, regularly played in European football & won 3 Uefa cups!

Obviously you have your own opinions on him but you’re making him out as being the second coming of Junior Lewis!

Might be worth looking at his actual performance stats & the team stats when he’s played also. Our win % doubled whenever he played & his pass completion average was 81% not to mention the fact we looked a completely different team defending set pieces when he played.

My comparison to Cambiasso was to do with their experience, football intelligence & game management/control. Knowing when to slow the game down and take the sting out when under pressure etc is an essential part of a central midfielders game and that’s what Iborra gave us. 

Having a player with his experience & skill set in the squad can only be a benefit to us.

As for Amartey, in the 3 seasons he’s been here he’s never held a starting place down, treats the ball like it’s a hot potato & has shown the same level of football intelligence than Jeff Schlupp! Apart from his physical attributes I’m intrigued to find out why u think he’d be a wiser option

[urban.spaceman]

Does anyone know if we had a sell-on clause for Kante?

[FoxinNotts]

Just now, urban.spaceman said:

Does anyone know if we had a sell-on clause for Kante?

Yes we do. But it can only be taken up at Xmas.

 

....its a Santa Claus 

[STUHILL]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

For a ‘Spanish Donkey’ he’s not done too bad for himself seeing as though he captained one of Spain’s top sides, regularly played in European football & won 3 Uefa cups!

Obviously you have your own opinions on him but you’re making him out as being the second coming of Junior Lewis!

Might be worth looking at his actual performance stats & the team stats when he’s played also. Our win % doubled whenever he played & his pass completion average was 81% not to mention the fact we looked a completely different team defending set pieces when he played.

My comparison to Cambiasso was to do with their experience, football intelligence & game management/control. Knowing when to slow the game down and take the sting out when under pressure etc is an essential part of a central midfielders game and that’s what Iborra gave us. 

Having a player with his experience & skill set in the squad can only be a benefit to us.

As for Amartey, in the 3 seasons he’s been here he’s never held a starting place down, treats the ball like it’s a hot potato & has shown the same level of football intelligence than Jeff Schlupp! Apart from his physical attributes I’m intrigued to find out why u think he’d be a wiser option

[STUHILL]

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/113988-iborra-key-player/

 

'...A Spanish donkey'... 

 

[baldeagle]

He’s still an upgrade on king 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

Absolutely this 100%

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

For a ‘Spanish Donkey’ he’s not done too bad for himself seeing as though he captained one of Spain’s top sides, regularly played in European football & won 3 Uefa cups!

Obviously you have your own opinions on him but you’re making him out as being the second coming of Junior Lewis!

Might be worth looking at his actual performance stats & the team stats when he’s played also. Our win % doubled whenever he played & his pass completion average was 81% not to mention the fact we looked a completely different team defending set pieces when he played.

My comparison to Cambiasso was to do with their experience, football intelligence & game management/control. Knowing when to slow the game down and take the sting out when under pressure etc is an essential part of a central midfielders game and that’s what Iborra gave us. 

Having a player with his experience & skill set in the squad can only be a benefit to us.

As for Amartey, in the 3 seasons he’s been here he’s never held a starting place down, treats the ball like it’s a hot potato & has shown the same level of football intelligence than Jeff Schlupp! Apart from his physical attributes I’m intrigued to find out why u think he’d be a wiser option

Whilst I appreciate where your coming from there can't remotely be any comparison to Cambiasso really can there? Even at his very best he wouldnt be a patch on Cambiasso even in his last season. Whatever he did have and did achieve was all history and washed up by the time we got him. Gerard hits the nail on the head, we paid double the price for a player whose club were trying to get rid of the year previous year because he wasn't relevant to them anymore even then!

[NewquayFox]

 I hope the usual suspects feck off, end this thread please Taa... 

[STUHILL]

5 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

Amartey > Iborra? 

[STUHILL]

5 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

[volpeazzurro]

2 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Amartey > Iborra? 

My point was mainly that we'd already got Armarty who, whilst not able yet to set the world alight, would be a better option than frittering a large transfer fee and several years worth of wages on a washed up player whose club were grateful to get rid of for double the price offered a year previous. There's a reason Puel didn't play him and for all those wishing an counter attacking quick game of football,  I really don't think Iborra is quick enough in mind or body.

[Albert]

6 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Whilst I appreciate where your coming from there can't remotely be any comparison to Cambiasso really can there? Even at his very best he wouldnt be a patch on Cambiasso even in his last season. Whatever he did have and did achieve was all history and washed up by the time we got him. Gerard hits the nail on the head, we paid double the price for a player whose club were trying to get rid of the year previous year because he wasn't relevant to them anymore even then!

You’re missing my point mate. I’m not comparing them head to head as it’s obvious to everyone that Cambiasso is the better player. The price we paid for them & trying to compare them both in their prime is irrelevant. I’m pointing out the similarities of the influence their experience, football intelligence & skill sets have on the team & the younger players both during a game & on the training ground.

Drinky, James & Kingy would tell u how much their games improved just from training & learning from Cambiasso everyday & Wilf would say exactly the same about Iborra.

 

 

 

[Albert]

52 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

My point was mainly that we'd already got Armarty who, whilst not able yet to set the world alight, would be a better option than frittering a large transfer fee and several years worth of wages on a washed up player whose club were grateful to get rid of for double the price offered a year previous. There's a reason Puel didn't play him and for all those wishing an counter attacking quick game of football,  I really don't think Iborra is quick enough in mind or body.

Putting the fact they’re completely different types of player & are Worlds apart in class to one side can u name one reason why Amartey would be a better option? 

[murphy]

6 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

£15m apparently. 

 

What mostly annoys me about the Iborra signing was he was nearly 30, uncapped and a squad player at Sevilla. At the time of buying he came as a squad player as he was never going to displace Ndidi or Drinkwater. 

 

We knew exactly the player we were buying. Coming towards the end of his career, has never been good enough at any point in his career to get a cap for Spain and was a squad player at Sevilla. Financially we're about on par with Sevilla and a bit richer so we should be able to compete with them. We'll never get anywhere if we take their ageing squad players from them. Iborra had agreed to go to Sunderland for £7m the year before but had a last minute change of heart. Sevilla had tried to get rid of him the year before but ended up selling him to us for more than twice the Sunderland fee.

 

I honestly don't know what goes through the head of the people who wanted and sanctioned this deal. We've got exactly what we deserved, all the signs were there for all to see that it would be poor business.

15 million euros - £12m.

[MPH]

8 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Would be very true and a viable point ... except he's shown no vision, passing ability or controlling of a game. He's slow and lethargic,  gets one pass in three right, generally moves about 3 yards from side to side and can't see let alone track runners! Just because you hang on to the ball for a long time greatly slowing the pace of the game down doesn't necessarily mean you're controlling the game. The remotest comparison with Cambiasso is laughable, he was an ageing but still relevant highly decorated former world class Argentinian player, whereas Iborra is a slightly younger mediocre Spanish donkey whose  previous employers must have wet their pants when they received 12m for him! Iborra, Silva and Slimani, all poor buys considering the amount paid for unproven (in the Premiership) ageing players with no sell on value. Silva may improve slightly having a season under his belt and Slimani in fairness was never given a run in his favoured position but ... Iborra ain't going to get any faster or his passing any more accurate. Squad player at best, persistence with Amartey may have been a wiser option perhaps. 

I’m puzzled by referring to him as a ‘Spanish donkey’. He did really well against us when we played against him.. 

[VLC86]

Iborra isn’t a world beater but calling him a donkey isn’t really true or fair. 

 

I can imagine he is a decent guy to havr around the squad, when I went to have my shirt signed he arrived 45 minutes before he needed to, stopped to have a chat and came across as a grounded and humble guy.

 

Would be a shame if he left.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Costock_Fox said:

Iborra isn’t a world beater but calling him a donkey isn’t really true or fair. 

 

I can imagine he is a decent guy to havr around the squad, when I went to have my shirt signed he arrived 45 minutes before he needed to, stopped to have a chat and came across as a grounded and humble guy.

 

Would be a shame if he left.

Yes, with hindsight it was very wrong to insult him like that. Sometimes it's easy to get carried away in the heat of a thread and I cringe at some of the comments made on players like Wes regardless of certain performances. I would bet that Iborra is a very decent guy and I should know better and apologise unreservedly. 

[Gerard]

12 hours ago, Albert said:

For a ‘Spanish Donkey’ he’s not done too bad for himself seeing as though he captained one of Spain’s top sides, regularly played in European football & won 3 Uefa cups!

Obviously you have your own opinions on him but you’re making him out as being the second coming of Junior Lewis!

Might be worth looking at his actual performance stats & the team stats when he’s played also. Our win % doubled whenever he played & his pass completion average was 81% not to mention the fact we looked a completely different team defending set pieces when he played.

My comparison to Cambiasso was to do with their experience, football intelligence & game management/control. Knowing when to slow the game down and take the sting out when under pressure etc is an essential part of a central midfielders game and that’s what Iborra gave us. 

Having a player with his experience & skill set in the squad can only be a benefit to us.

As for Amartey, in the 3 seasons he’s been here he’s never held a starting place down, treats the ball like it’s a hot potato & has shown the same level of football intelligence than Jeff Schlupp! Apart from his physical attributes I’m intrigued to find out why u think he’d be a wiser option

 

9 hours ago, STUHILL said:

Amartey > Iborra? 

 

Amartey & €15m > iborra

 

Iborra has three Europa Cups to his name but his contribution to those finals were all as a substitute. Once he was an unused substitute and the other two times he came on as an 89th minute substitute. Let's not rewrite history as he has three Europa Cup winners medals for four minutes playing time.

 

I don't think Iborra is a bad player, he's actually okay, I just think it was terrible business to spend €15m on a player who is nearly 30 and never came here to be first choice. English clubs seem to end up stockpiling unwanted players because of over inflated transfer fees and wages. As soon as we bought Iborra he was going to fit in straight into that category, his value plummeted as soon as we bought him. Sevilla must have thought of us as mugs. 

 

Just to put his €15m fee into context. Sevilla in their whole history have only twice spent more than €15m for a player but we waltz in and throw €15m at one of their near 30 year old players whose been a squad player for years. They probably couldn't get rid of him quickly enough to these English mugs with more money than sense. It would be like us selling Andy King for £12m. 

 

If we're going to prosper then we need to be so much smarter with our money. Our net spend can only average about £20m per season for us to break even.